gavinlg
Veteran
Keep in mind it's basically a z50 with a different shell. The major development costs have already been spent on the z50 - it's likely a minimum outlay/maximum market diversification effort.
gavinlg
Veteran
more from Nokishlta:
olakiril
Well-known
Well, you were right. It is an AIs looking full auto lens :bang:
And as with Df, the back of the camera is a mess with 10 buttons and 2 dials. More than half of them could be easily hidden next to the LCD screen like R-D1.
That looks good...
Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
That looks a lot better than I would have expected. At least in these shots, the enormous Z-mount does not look out of proportion on the compact body.
aizan
Veteran
Very nice! Looking forward to a full frame Zf.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
We're probably going to have to disagree on this. There are literally no controls on this one that are in the same place as on the Z50, nor are they even the same controls. So, it's more than just a difference in the shell. The lens mount is the same and probably the sensor and maybe the processor, but that's about it; this is a new camera. A graceless new camera. (So, yes, we're going to disagree about the appearance and haptics as well.)
Why is it graceless?
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
"Retro", as weird as the concept is, is about appearance, style, looks. It's not understood to be about function. If people want retro function, which most don't, it's a film camera. And those are widely available. I am not pushing for a "retro" digital camera because, as I have annoyingly said before, that isn't an elegant solution to anything, either appearance or function. You end up with something like this thing, a mashup. I can't even see how that "looks retro". It's a mess, stylistically. There is hardly a square centimeter they haven't stuck a freaking knob on in an effort to give every digital control it's own nubbin. I am sure it will be a nice digital crop sensor camera. Just because it doesn't look like a Z50, which is a more built for purpose design, that doesn't mean it's "retro".
If Nikon had wanted to do something retro enough to recall the elegance in industrial design they were good at in the past, they already had the blueprints in the vault. Could have been easily done, had it been more focused on actually being "retro". Leica, at least, seemed to understand what "retro" means when it released the M-D. That thing didn't make a lot of sense functionally, because it's a digital camera, and forsook one of the larger advantages of digital cameras, the aptly named chimping, but, at least it was retro.
This thing below, that's what "retro" looks like if you are Nikon, and they could have, just as Leica did:
If Apple designed Nikon's retro digital camera. Clean, elegant, and to the point, even if it doesn't have a headphone jack any longer.
If Nikon had wanted to do something retro enough to recall the elegance in industrial design they were good at in the past, they already had the blueprints in the vault. Could have been easily done, had it been more focused on actually being "retro". Leica, at least, seemed to understand what "retro" means when it released the M-D. That thing didn't make a lot of sense functionally, because it's a digital camera, and forsook one of the larger advantages of digital cameras, the aptly named chimping, but, at least it was retro.
This thing below, that's what "retro" looks like if you are Nikon, and they could have, just as Leica did:
If Apple designed Nikon's retro digital camera. Clean, elegant, and to the point, even if it doesn't have a headphone jack any longer.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
I hear what you're saying Larry. That said, I do love my Nikon Df and lately it's the camera I most use. I wanted a digital body to slap on my vintage Nikon SLR glass, and it fits the bill nicely. Not sure Nikon could come up with anything else that would spark my interest. But I'm a crotchety old camera guy, and not Nikon's target market.
Best,
-Tim
Best,
-Tim
Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
"Retro", as weird as the concept is, is about appearance, style, looks. It's not understood to be about function. If people want retro function, which most don't, it's a film camera. And those are widely available. I am not pushing for a "retro" digital camera because, as I have annoyingly said before, that isn't an elegant solution to anything, either appearance or function. You end up with something like this thing, a mashup. I can't even see how that "looks retro". It's a mess, stylistically. There is hardly a square centimeter they haven't stuck a freaking knob on in an effort to give every digital control it's own nubbin. I am sure it will be a nice digital crop sensor camera. Just because it doesn't look like a Z50, which is a more built for purpose design, that doesn't mean it's "retro".
If Nikon had wanted to do something retro enough to recall the elegance in industrial design they were good at in the past, they already had the blueprints in the vault. Could have been easily done, had it been more focused on actually being "retro". Leica, at least, seemed to understand what "retro" means when it released the M-D. That thing didn't make a lot of sense functionally, because it's a digital camera, and forsook one of the larger advantages of digital cameras, the aptly named chimping, but, at least it was retro.
This thing below, that's what "retro" looks like if you are Nikon, and they could have, just as Leica did:
If Apple designed Nikon's retro digital camera. Clean, elegant, and to the point, even if it doesn't have a headphone jack any longer.
Larry,
First off, that's a gorgeous F2.
I don't disagree conceptually with anything you said, although I'm not prepared to write this camera off completely before it's even introduced. To be truly "retro," a Nikon camera would have to be manual focus and have an aperture ring on the lens. I think the difference between Leica's design and positioning and that of Nikon is that Leica still makes M-mount lens. I believe Nikon stopped making manual focus AI-S lenses some years ago; the ones being sold new are old stock. I don't think Nikon will ever go back to making lenses with an aperture ring or designing cameras to work properly around such lenses. I think to do so would require Nikon to fork their firmware more than they would want to make a niche market camera. You can see that in this design; unlike most of the Fuji X series cameras, it has a PASM dial/switch rather than simply having an "A" automatic setting on the shutter speed dial for aperture priority and an "A" setting on the aperture ring of the lens for shutter priority. (And I also suspect there is a considerable cost savings to Nikon in manufacturing lenses without aperture rings.)
While the Zfc may not be the digital F2, FE, or FM3A many of us would have wanted, it seems like an interesting alternative to other mirrorless options in this price range. I wouldn't sell my FEs to buy one—I do like that true "retro" experience—but I might consider selling my DSLRs to buy a Zfc.
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Timmyjoe
Veteran
I'm looking at images of this new Nikon, and was wondering if someone could explain to me what this lens is? I can't find a reference to it anywhere, doesn't show up on searches for Z mount Nikon glass. Looks like it was "retro" styled to look like the old AIS 28mm lens, but I've not seen other Z lenses with that "retro" styling.
Best,
-Tim
Best,
-Tim
Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
It's new, a variant of the yet-to-be-introduced 28mm f/2.8 compact lens that has been on the roadmap for some time (along with the 40mm f/2.0 compact).
How many mirrorless DX lenses does Nikon make?
The target market for this camera is not RFF members.
I think they'll sell a lot of them.
The target market for this camera is not RFF members.
I think they'll sell a lot of them.
JeffS7444
Well-known
It fails at simplicity, it's more "Homer Simpson car" than Henry David Thoreau in his cabin.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
This will be authentically retro for those who have never used nor seen used a real camera from the good old days. I think the hipster movement has moved on though so I wonder how it will be received. If they have a big closeout sale I might be moved to get one just to have a back up to the Z7.
Retro-Grouch
Veteran
I'm sure many of us remember those kits, back in the seventies, where you could drop a fiberglass shell that was styled sorta like a Ferrari or whatever onto a VW chassis/engine combo. Classic "lipstick on a pig"; just sayin'. Since I've stopped shooting digital, the retro digital threads like this have no interest for me beyond a few chuckles, but I will say that Larry's F2 Titan gives me goosebumps. That's a classic, pure and simple. Not retro, just classic.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Also what good is a retro camera without aperture notches on the lens?I'm looking at images of this new Nikon, and was wondering if someone could explain to me what this lens is? I can't find a reference to it anywhere, doesn't show up on searches for Z mount Nikon glass. Looks like it was "retro" styled to look like the old AIS 28mm lens, but I've not seen other Z lenses with that "retro" styling.
Best,
-Tim
kshapero
South Florida Man
That's hilarious!
Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
I wish Nikon would hurry up and introduce this camera already so all of us Nikon fans with ADHD could actually get some work done today.