Nikon retro-inspired camera

splitimageview said:
How many mirrorless DX lenses does Nikon make?

The target market for this camera is not RFF members. :D I think they'll sell a lot of them.
Click to expand...

Time will tell. I don’t think so, but then again, I don’t have crystal ball, but I have “feelings”. :)

To be clear, I am not saying that it might not end up being a good camera that many people can use happily, like the Df was/is (great sensor). I’m just saying that it’s not very “retro”, being as it is an entirely new thing, a digital camera with dials stuck on top of other dials, lots of dials. Nikon probably has the best menu system in all of digital cameradom, with the ability to create custom ones, with things like the ISO menu right at the top. Z7 has a touch screen with ISO an instant touch away. So, why does it have to become a bigass dial, either for functional or esthetic reasons? There is no way having an ISO dial like the one grafted onto the top plate here, where 2/3 of the ISO settings aren’t even numbered, just dots, is going to be as quick, or faster to use, than the Z7 touchscreen, even if you didn’t have to depress a lock button to turn it, which you do. It’s design choices like this which are why I said it was “graceless.”
I just bought a Leica iiia for the Summar on it. I’ll use it. I’ve got a Linhof 4x5 which I was using last week, poorly, so “retro”, no matter how elastic the definition, is unlikely to ever stretch to accommodate this new Nikon, for me, with my impeccable luddite credentials. I can use all my Ai-s lenses on my Z7, so there’s that. The Z7 body is close to exactly the same size as an F2, just a bit smaller. And, it’s full frame. Nobody ever said the F2 was a large camera. Well, probably in the next ten minutes someone will.
Anyway, yeah, Japanese market, maybe.

I’m something of a troll. That fact isn’t lost on me, but it is all done in good faith and my opinions are all legitimately mine, and heartfelt, even the unpopular ones.
 
If those latest images are kosher, it won't be cheap but if it's your thing, better grab one while you can. I figure if you can get it with the kit zoom for under $2K, give them your money and say "Thank you"!
 
Retro-Grouch said:
I'm sure many of us remember those kits, back in the seventies, where you could drop a fiberglass shell that was styled sorta like a Ferrari or whatever onto a VW chassis/engine combo. Classic "lipstick on a pig"; just sayin'. Since I've stopped shooting digital, the retro digital threads like this have no interest for me beyond a few chuckles, but I will say that Larry's F2 Titan gives me goosebumps. That's a classic, pure and simple. Not retro, just classic.
Click to expand...

Thanks, it gives me goosebumps too.
I guess that’s my touchstone, and it’s warped my perception of what retro really means.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
"Retro", as weird as the concept is, is about appearance, style, looks. It's not understood to be about function. If people want retro function, which most don't, it's a film camera. And those are widely available. I am not pushing for a "retro" digital camera because, as I have annoyingly said before, that isn't an elegant solution to anything, either appearance or function. You end up with something like this thing, a mashup. I can't even see how that "looks retro". It's a mess, stylistically. There is hardly a square centimeter they haven't stuck a freaking knob on in an effort to give every digital control it's own nubbin. I am sure it will be a nice digital crop sensor camera. Just because it doesn't look like a Z50, which is a more built for purpose design, that doesn't mean it's "retro".
…
Click to expand...

I’ll have to respectfully disagree here. Let’s temporarily set aside the term “Retro”. For me, functionality and ease of making and viewing my settings is paramount. If I have to spin little wheels and look at a display or menu, then I’m distracted and probably won’t even make the photo. This dedicated-dial functionality is why I admire the F4 and disliked the F5, F6, and EOS cameras. In the digital world perhaps I’m in the minority, but a camera like the Fuji X-T1, where the most common functions are set through dedicated dials and you can see your settings at a glance is exactly what I want.

So, to me, that type of functionality is what I think of when the “”Retro” label is used. But from articles I read, it seems others think of “Retro” as more of a style for the sake of styling than as a certain method of providing functionality.

Larry Cloetta said:
..
.
Click to expand...

I have nothing to add here other than wanting to see this photo again. :D
 
We'll have to see if there are features which correspond to the thought-out retro appearance. I am thinking something along the lines of the JPEG profiles with the physical dial to go with it on the digital Pen-F. The fact that Olympus thought through ways to produce very "film-like" B&W images and designed a dial to go along with it was rather neat.

This camera could possibly capture my attention, IF it has Nikon's highlight-weighted metering (I've grown to love it in the GRIII and pine for it in other digital cameras), AND has IBIS, which it doesn't seem likely to since the Z50 doesn't. But I need both of those features to consider it seriously at all, and then there's lenses. It will probably be like the Df, which for me was not a personal interest but I was reasonably glad that it existed.
 
Nikon Rumors has some specs and product description, and I'm thinking it will be a hit with millennials and Gen-Z because it has all the features they need to post on Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, etc. Looks like Nikon made it very compatible with SnapBridge to smart phones and tablets, plus it gives that cool "retro" look to show off for your followers. If it's not too expensive, I think they might sell a bunch of them. But it is obviously not marketed to the folks on this forum.

That said, I think the aperture setting showing up on the top of the camera (little window) and the shutter speed & ISO dials being visible, it might be a fun camera to shoot where you manually adjust the exposure.

Best,
-Tim
 
As a Millennial, nope, and I suggest you try not assuming what xyz generation "wants" in a camera. By the way, a bunch of the folks in my age group, like me, are shooting mostly film.
 
agentlossing said:
We'll have to see if there are features which correspond to the thought-out retro appearance. I am thinking something along the lines of the JPEG profiles with the physical dial to go with it on the digital Pen-F. The fact that Olympus thought through ways to produce very "film-like" B&W images and designed a dial to go along with it was rather neat.

This camera could possibly capture my attention, IF it has Nikon's highlight-weighted metering (I've grown to love it in the GRIII and pine for it in other digital cameras), AND has IBIS, which it doesn't seem likely to since the Z50 doesn't. But I need both of those features to consider it seriously at all, and then there's lenses. It will probably be like the Df, which for me was not a personal interest but I was reasonably glad that it existed.
Click to expand...

Nikon Picture Control Editor (nikonpc.com) has a number downloadable picture controls that you can download which are designed to look like various films. These can be installed in most Nikon DSLRs made since around 2009 or so and (I presume) the Z series cameras. I have tried a few of them. I don't know how these would compare to the Olympus or Fuji film simulations, and I definitely don't think they look particularly like film, but I rather like having the option.

I think the Zfc will have highlight-weighted metering (I believe all new Nikons do and have for the last few years) but not IBIS. I think the lack of IBIS is a real weakness in the Z50 and presumably in this new camera as well.
 
Yeah, lack of IBIS is too inconvenient for me to break away from Pentax or M4/3. But highlight weighted metering is the thing they don't have (except for the K3iii, but that's a bit too pricey for me, and the G9 which is a bit too large). I need both of these features for the ideal camera.
 
Corran said:
As a Millennial, nope, and I suggest you try not assuming what xyz generation "wants" in a camera. By the way, a bunch of the folks in my age group, like me, are shooting mostly film.
Click to expand...

Being that I have two Gen Z children and see them and their friends here in my home on a daily basis, I do have an idea of what they "want" in a camera, and not a single one of them shoots film. So just maybe, some millennials and some Gen Z will enjoy this new Nikon camera, and the ones who "only shoot film" will not.

To each their own.

Best,
-Tim
 
"Millennial" is beginning to lose a lot of its meaning as we all adapt to fit into whatever this modern reality is. Now, the kids are even more disconnected than we were!
 
The new Zfc has at least one feature I asked for, and that's the fully articulated screen. It was one of the best things about my P7700, and when I started into DSLRs I really missed it. I've been wanting to switch out my D300s's for the Z50, but when the rumors of this new camera started I held back. I picked up a Panasonic LX100 II for the manual action controls, but miss the image quality of APS-C over M4/3. And the screen doesn't even tilt.

The images I've seen of the Zfc don't look as bad as I feared. I'm still going to wait a while though before making the switch to Nikon mirrorless. Will likely stay with APS-C as I have a good set of lenses in that format (3 zooms, 2 primes, and a macro). Will just need to add an FTZ. The add-on grip appears to be very useful on the Zfc and improves the overall look of the camera, so a body-adapter-grip combo is all I would need.

I wonder if it has a match needle in the finder. Nah, that's asking for too much.

PF
 
Larry Cloetta said:
"Retro", as weird as the concept is, is about appearance, style, looks. It's not understood to be about function. If people want retro function, which most don't, it's a film camera.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. I mean, why can't a digital camera have a shutter speed dial and an exposure comp dial? It's why Fuji and Leica do well. I get that this camera isn't what most of wanted, but it's not a bad camera.

I am not pushing for a "retro" digital camera because, as I have annoyingly said before, that isn't an elegant solution to anything, either appearance or function. You end up with something like this thing, a mashup. I can't even see how that "looks retro". It's a mess, stylistically. There is hardly a square centimeter they haven't stuck a freaking knob on in an effort to give every digital control it's own nubbin. I am sure it will be a nice digital crop sensor camera. Just because it doesn't look like a Z50, which is a more built for purpose design, that doesn't mean it's "retro".
Click to expand...

It's made to look like an old FM and it has a shutter dial. Of course it's not for people who want a film camera or a PSAM digital camera. Is it awesome? no...but I can see its appeal if I don't have a lot of money and I want something different than the same old digital camera. I can't see how it is complicated though... it seems easy to use IMO. It has a VF, a shutter speed dial, a shutter release, etc. The only thing I don't get is why the lenses don't have aperture rings.

If Nikon had wanted to do something retro enough to recall the elegance in industrial design they were good at in the past, they already had the blueprints in the vault. Could have been easily done, had it been more focused on actually being "retro". Leica, at least, seemed to understand what "retro" means when it released the M-D. That thing didn't make a lot of sense functionally, because it's a digital camera, and forsook one of the larger advantages of digital cameras, the aptly named chimping, but, at least it was retro.
Click to expand...

Leica is a luxury brand. Nikon is not. While we would love it, most people want a Nikon Z9 and worry about defeating Canon and Sony in the camera wars. They want more of everything...not stripped down and old school.

This thing below, that's what "retro" looks like if you are Nikon, and they could have, just as Leica did:


If Apple designed Nikon's retro digital camera. Clean, elegant, and to the point, even if it doesn't have a headphone jack any longer.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is beautiful no doubt, but do you really expect Nikon to make a digital version of some of their most desirable, rare and expensive gear? Of course a $999 APSC digital camera cannot compete with that. However, now we see why you cannot see the appeal of this camera...it simply does not have the snob factor. I get that.
 
Timmyjoe said:
Sorry to offend the snowflake millennial. Being that I have two Gen Z children and see them and their friends here in my home on a daily basis, I do have an idea of what they "want" in a camera, and not a single one of them shoots film. So just maybe, some millennials and some Gen Z will enjoy this new Nikon camera, and the ones who "only shoot film" will not.

To each their own.

Best,
-Tim
Click to expand...

Wow… a touch anecdotal and perhaps curmudgeonly?
 
Timmyjoe said:
snowflake
Click to expand...

Why the Forum is Mostly Just Curmudgeonly Old Men - A Treatise in Two Posts

agentlossing said:
"Millennial" is beginning to lose a lot of its meaning
Click to expand...

Millennial is the new Hipster. It's easy to sweep away any opinions from the pesky youth by simply invoking some of these terms.

Anyway, I think I made my point. Out of all the folks I know in my age range who are into photography, one bought a Df, because of the styling. I believe he later regretted it, with its lack of common features.
 
farlymac said:
I picked up a Panasonic LX100 II for the manual action controls, but miss the image quality of APS-C over M4/3. And the screen doesn't even tilt.

PF
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, side note: I found the LX100ii disappointingly lower in IQ than M4/3 cameras I'm very familiar with over years of use, both 16MP and 20MP models. I think that particular camera has more to do with the compromises necessary to create that lens. Stick a nice prime in front of a M4/3 sensor and you will get a lot better IQ.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom