Nikon S3 2000 - Squeaky Helical

[Joe L]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum, having just purchased an unused (supposedly, anyway 🙂) Nikon S3 2000 reissue. It appears I'm having an issue some others mentioned, which is a squeaky helical. I have read some other posts on the topic, but wasn't sure if it was better to bring up old threads or post anew here.

A few data points - I have only had the camera for a few weeks, so I can't say that long term use makes it better or worse. I can say a few things:

• On my example, the squeaking is when focusing close, not near infinity as I've seen at least one other person mention.
• I *think* it gets slightly rougher and more resistant when squeaking, but not a *huge* difference. I'd say the feeling is almost more of a resonance through the body than much of an increase in resistance.
• I noticed that if I am extremely careful to try to support the weight of the lens and try to keep it "centered" in the mount, I can reduce, but not consistently eliminate the squeaking.
• Due to this, I removed the lens, and found that operating the focusing wheel to move the internal helicoid in and out (or even rotating it by the distance scale, once it's out far enough) essentially eliminates the squeaking. It's still not super smooth and silent, like a Nikon Ai-S lens - I can still hear and kind of feel the gearing between it and the focusing wheel - but it's a big improvement.

I guess my question is what to do next. Part of the reason I wanted one of the reproduction models was to have a much newer camera, though even these are over 20 years old at this point, figuring I'd get as close as I could to a new one. A lot of the joy for me with old film cameras has to do with the feel of using high-quality mechanical cameras, so I am finding the feeling of operating this one a little disappointing.

I'm not stuck on keeping this camera perfect - I'm someone who thinks they were made to be used, and frankly there are enough out there that remain stowed away in their original boxes that I don't feel like I'm destroying a museum piece. I do recognize that I'm reducing the value by using it, but again, I bought it to use it. However, I'm a little leery of sending it away to fix this if it's going to make it worse. I'm certainly not comfortable taking it apart and adjusting it myself.

That brings me to this thread: https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/166298

I see it mentioned in there a few times that some folks actually took their reissue Nikon rangefinders to Nikon and got the helicoids replaced - apparently the ones originally used were made to too-tight tolerances. My questions are these:

• Does Nikon still do this? I saw a mention as late as 2017 so I am holding out some hope on this.
• What about Nikon USA's issue where they don't provide service for gray market cameras? I'm wondering if I might get different consideration here as there's no such thing as a USA market S3 2000.
• If Nikon will not do this, what are my available options?
• Am I damaging the camera if I just suck it up and live with the squeak?

I love the camera as a work of art into itself, and I'm enjoying learning how to shoot with a rangefinder. But if it's mechanically always going to be like this (again, I mind the internal gear noise of the focus wheel much less as that seems far more integral to its operation and I'd figure they probably "all do that"), I wonder whether I'm not better off packaging it back up after finishing the roll of film I have in it, and selling it on to someone who is just going to use it as shelf candy or a store of value.

I appreciate any guidance you can provide!

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The original Nikon SP repair manual states to not grease the helical, but to soak it in Gasoline. Which contain lubricants. My Mechanical Engineer told me the latter about 20 years ago when I cleaned the helical on a Nikon S2.

https://richardhaw.com/2017/03/04/repair-nikon-s2-front-overhaul/

My original Nikon S3 developed a squeek, I "flood cleaned" the helical from the backside. Set the shutter to "T" and put some Ronsonol lighter fluid through it. Worked the helical, and some dirt and grime came out- swapped it up. Quick Fix, worked for me.

What SN is your camera? Only the first few were affected by the problem in helical tolerance, Nikon coorected the issue. My S3-2000 has not developed a problem.

 

[Joe L]

Thank you Brian! My SN is S3 203738. So, if these were numbered sequentially, I'd think this is from close to the middle of the run.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable getting that far into the camera myself as Richard Haw does!

Your solution sounds easier for sure. Just to be clear, this is what you did?

1. Remove back/bottom plate
2. Remove lens
3. Set shutter to "T" (to keep it open)
4. This is the part where I'm a little unclear:​​​​​​
   • Did you run the helicoid out all the way, i.e., to closest focus?
   • What does "flood cleaned" mean? Did you just pour lighter fluid into the helicoid? Roughly how much are we talking about?
   • What do you mean by "swapped it up," did you then do the same from the front?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to picture what you did as I want to be careful not to get lighter fluid inside the camera where I shouldn't.

I appreciate the help!​

 

[jonmanjiro]

Joe L The squeaky helical thing is a common problem with the reissue Nikon rangefinders, including the SP 2005, and even on cameras that have never been used. I've seen it on dozens of reissue Nikon RFs. The cause is much tighter helical tolerances than the original rangefinders so even the slightest contamination or surface corrosion in the helical will cause a problem.

I've dissembled and repaired several reissue helicals personally. The best solution is to completely separate the two helical pieces, then clean the threads and polish them with a dremel or similar tool so they are completely smooth, then reassemble. Though not recommended by Nikon, I've also tried lubricating the helical threads with grease for lens focusing units, and it works quite ok. But you don't want to use too much grease and it does make the focus wheel heavier to rotate.

In 2007, I took three different reissue Nikon rangefinders to the Nikon Service Center in Tokyo within the space of about a month to get the helicals replaced due to them being squeaky. Nikon gave me back the old helicals and I gave one to Tom A (who was going to make an S-mount Leica with it, but never did unfortunately), sold one, and sent one to Amedeo to make an M-mount adapter for me, which I still have. Nikon stopped giving back the old helicals after that though 🙂

As for "flood cleaning"... I wouldn't recommend it, and personally don't think it will do much of anything with your S3 2000 helical. To do the repair properly, I think you're going to have to disassemble the helical.

Regarding the recall, the first batch of Nikon S3 2000 cameras (not sure exactly how many... maybe 500 to 1,000 cameras) was indeed recalled because external mount lenses would get stuck on the helical when mounted. The S3 2000 was offered with the internal mount Millennium 50/1.4 and it seems no one at Nikon bothered to check whether external mount lenses would actually mount before the first batch of camera sets shipped lol. But that's a completely unrelated problem to the squeaky helical problem.

 

[splitimageview]

I acquired one of those helicals from you and sent it to Amedeo. This was before he had his own design, he was using Kiev helicals. The spare part Nikon helical was soooooo much nicer!

Hard to believe these cameras are now vintage! 🙂

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Thank you Brian! My SN is S3 203738. So, if these were numbered sequentially, I'd think this is from close to the middle of the run.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable getting that far into the camera myself as Richard Haw does!

Your solution sounds easier for sure. Just to be clear, this is what you did?

1. Remove back/bottom plate
2. Remove lens
3. Set shutter to "T" (to keep it open)
4. This is the part where I'm a little unclear:​​​​​​
   • Did you run the helicoid out all the way, i.e., to closest focus?
   • What does "flood cleaned" mean? Did you just pour lighter fluid into the helicoid? Roughly how much are we talking about?
   • What do you mean by "swapped it up," did you then do the same from the front?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to picture what you did as I want to be careful not to get lighter fluid inside the camera where I shouldn't.

I appreciate the help!​

Flood cleaned means to use a solvent such as lighter fluid or alcohol to clean a mechanism. The solvent gets rid of old grease and dirt.
Here- used on a Frozen Leica mount lens. 4 days to get it to move.



On the Nikon, I ran the helical all the way to close focus, squirted a small amount of fluid enough to wet the surfaces, then focused back and forth a few times. When the helical was back to close focus, Wiped the fluid with paper towel wrapped on a Q-Tip. This picked up the now dissolved grime. This worked on my original S3. It is a quick-fix that worked. On two other Nikon RF bodies, I took the helical off the camera and cleaned in gasoline as per the original repair manual.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Thanks Brian. I have a re-issue S3 that I bought new from B&H and I never used it. It's been a shelf, Queen I'm ashamed to say. It squeaked from the first day and I never followed up with Nikon after some frustrated attempts to deal with Nikon USA. I just now did the lighter fluid flood fix and it's as quiet as anything. Hopefully it will stay quiet, and I intend to use it very soon.

As always you have been very helpful!

 

[Joe L]

Thank you both, Jon & Brian! I do believe I'm going to try Brian's method first, with just a few drops, and see how it goes. If that doesn't work, I think I have two options:

- Try Jon's method, though in this case, I think I'm going to see if I can find another S3 being sold for parts, to practice with.
- Reach out to Stephen at CameraQuest to see if he's now accepting repairs again. I live relatively close to him.

I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[jonmanjiro]

I acquired one of those helicals from you and sent it to Amedeo. This was before he had his own design, he was using Kiev helicals. The spare part Nikon helical was soooooo much nicer!

Hard to believe these cameras are now vintage! 🙂

Ahh so that's where the other helical went! It's been so long, the details are kinda fuzzy now (I'm clearly "vintage" now too, just like the reissue Nikon RFs! 🙂) but I do remember Amedeo started making his own design after we sent the Nikon helicals to him and he was able to measure and compare them with the Kiev helicals he had been modifying!

Thank you both, Jon & Brian! I do believe I'm going to try Brian's method first, with just a few drops, and see how it goes. If that doesn't work, I think I have two options:

- Try Jon's method, though in this case, I think I'm going to see if I can find another S3 being sold for parts, to practice with.
- Reach out to Stephen at CameraQuest to see if he's now accepting repairs again. I live relatively close to him.

I'll let you know how it goes!

It wasn't successful for me, but its easy enough to try so definitely worth a shot trying Brian's method first. Hopefully you'll have similar success to Raymond. Do report back on how it works out!

 

[Duofold RF]

Some techs use flush cleaning techniques and dust some graphene powder lightly

 

[Sonnar2]

It's an easy operation to extract the whole helicoid unit from the camera, just 8 screws to unscrew (watch out for washers holding the mount. My camera had none). Other than that, you don't reach the helicoid properly to lubricate it. We here use MoS² Rust remover, which is also a lubricant. Make sure to lubricate it, but not bath it.
My S3-2000 was never used, but had a dry, squeaky, resistant (to the small distances) helicoid. The helicoids of my 4 other, *old* Nikon RF cameras can be turned smooth.
If Nikon really had ordered not to grease it anyhow in production, like stated by some sources, then this was a mistake. It's just a question of lubricant *type* - of course "grease" is wrong here. One has to keep in mind, that the Lens (Olympic Nikkor) is heavy - maybe too heavy to focus lightly by the wheel anyway. It's the largest standard lens for the Nikon S except the f/1.1-Nikkor, redesigned to be focussed on the lens itself.

 

[hap]

I've got a vintage dive watch issued by the IDF worth a fair amount.......however, the bezel is frozen. Can I drop it or try to flush in order to get it to loosen?

 

[Elmar Lang]

My S3-2000 (Black) works perfectly, without any squeak from the focussing helical... am I just lucky, or are there other S3's with a smooth, regular focus?

All the best,

Enzo (E.L.)

 

[Gordon Moat]

First post in years. Know this is an old thread. Recently got an S3 2000, with the intention of using it. A few years ago, I put together my own mechanical winding watch, so I had some watch oil left over. Setting shutter to T, and removing the back, I could see the last part of the helical. So I applied watch oil carefully to a few spots, then rotated the helical. I also let it sit face down for several minutes, to let the oil flow into the helical. Watch oil is super thin, and only tiny drops come out at a time. After a few minutes, I remounted the lens and tried focusing. The result was much smoother, with no squeaking at all.

 

[dwith3]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum, having just purchased an unused (supposedly, anyway 🙂) Nikon S3 2000 reissue. It appears I'm having an issue some others mentioned, which is a squeaky helical. I have read some other posts on the topic, but wasn't sure if it was better to bring up old threads or post anew here.

A few data points - I have only had the camera for a few weeks, so I can't say that long term use makes it better or worse. I can say a few things:

• On my example, the squeaking is when focusing close, not near infinity as I've seen at least one other person mention.
• I *think* it gets slightly rougher and more resistant when squeaking, but not a *huge* difference. I'd say the feeling is almost more of a resonance through the body than much of an increase in resistance.
• I noticed that if I am extremely careful to try to support the weight of the lens and try to keep it "centered" in the mount, I can reduce, but not consistently eliminate the squeaking.
• Due to this, I removed the lens, and found that operating the focusing wheel to move the internal helicoid in and out (or even rotating it by the distance scale, once it's out far enough) essentially eliminates the squeaking. It's still not super smooth and silent, like a Nikon Ai-S lens - I can still hear and kind of feel the gearing between it and the focusing wheel - but it's a big improvement.

I guess my question is what to do next. Part of the reason I wanted one of the reproduction models was to have a much newer camera, though even these are over 20 years old at this point, figuring I'd get as close as I could to a new one. A lot of the joy for me with old film cameras has to do with the feel of using high-quality mechanical cameras, so I am finding the feeling of operating this one a little disappointing.

I'm not stuck on keeping this camera perfect - I'm someone who thinks they were made to be used, and frankly there are enough out there that remain stowed away in their original boxes that I don't feel like I'm destroying a museum piece. I do recognize that I'm reducing the value by using it, but again, I bought it to use it. However, I'm a little leery of sending it away to fix this if it's going to make it worse. I'm certainly not comfortable taking it apart and adjusting it myself.

That brings me to this thread: https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/166298

I see it mentioned in there a few times that some folks actually took their reissue Nikon rangefinders to Nikon and got the helicoids replaced - apparently the ones originally used were made to too-tight tolerances. My questions are these:

• Does Nikon still do this? I saw a mention as late as 2017 so I am holding out some hope on this.
• What about Nikon USA's issue where they don't provide service for gray market cameras? I'm wondering if I might get different consideration here as there's no such thing as a USA market S3 2000.
• If Nikon will not do this, what are my available options?
• Am I damaging the camera if I just suck it up and live with the squeak?

I love the camera as a work of art into itself, and I'm enjoying learning how to shoot with a rangefinder. But if it's mechanically always going to be like this (again, I mind the internal gear noise of the focus wheel much less as that seems far more integral to its operation and I'd figure they probably "all do that"), I wonder whether I'm not better off packaging it back up after finishing the roll of film I have in it, and selling it on to someone who is just going to use it as shelf candy or a store of value.

I appreciate any guidance you can provide!

Same issue here. Which method did you use? Did it work?

 

[JeffS7444]

The original Nikon SP repair manual states to not grease the helical, but to soak it in Gasoline. Which contain lubricants.

Leaded gasoline, of course! I hadn't thought of using gasoline containing tetraethyl lead as a camera cleaner+lubricant, but it must have made perfect sense when that manual was written in the 1950s.

 

[Steinberg2010]

I'm curious - I see references both to graphite powder lubricant and watch oil. I'm at the place (bandwidth-wise) where I feel ready to take on my SP (2005 with squeaky helical). Is there a preference for which type of lubricant? I'm primarily using the bundled 50mm, if that helps...

~S

 

[armadsen]

I'm curious - I see references both to graphite powder lubricant and watch oil. I'm at the place (bandwidth-wise) where I feel ready to take on my SP (2005 with squeaky helical). Is there a preference for which type of lubricant? I'm primarily using the bundled 50mm, if that helps...

~S

I'm about at the same point with my S3 2000. (Incidentally, the bundled lens with the 2005 SP was the 35mm 1.8, not the 50mm 1.4.)

 

[Steinberg2010]

I'm about at the same point with my S3 2000. (Incidentally, the bundled lens with the 2005 SP was the 35mm 1.8, not the 50mm 1.4.)

Oh duh - absolutely right. I meant the 2000 50/1.4…