Ninety Years of Sonnars- From the Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F2 to the The 5cm F2 Bertele Sonnar

Sonnar Brian said:
The Clarity in the photos from the Bertele Sonnar are amazing. It is better than any of my F2 Sonnars. On my list to compare with- the C-Sonnar and "perfect-glass" original CZJ LTM 5cm F1.5 Sonnar T. The mount of the Bertele is better designed than the C-Sonnar, which can pick up a "Wobble". There is no backlash as often appears in the classic LTM Sonnars.
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You do realize that I have sold into bondage all my salable family, don't you? I don't want to be looking at a second mortgage. This '51 and the '57 are really good. And that XCD 55V is a nice lens as is the Amotal . Let's see what happens. ;o) I have to earn my next lens.
 
👍 Looks very good.
The Sonnar can be amazing (forgetting the shift) - I had J8 (used EVF a lot and that drove me crazy and so I passed it on - then - that made me weep); I had a m39 J-3, that I dissected myself and found it had a third ring that [probably, in use at least] gave a correct flange distance... then because all rings were now off center and all aligning somewhere else, again passed it off, leading to more tears. Both J8 and J3 were sharp as anything from Solms.
Now I have Ze Amedeo and two J3 heads, one is sharper than my Summicron I'm sure; the other uncoated and oh so sweet. But the lens parts fit together in a way that is a bit wobbly by design.
I gave up experimenting.
Will the Bertele win me back on a real lens?
 
Brian, do you know what the shortest focal length Sonnar in SLR mount is? I had the J9 in M42 mount, but I guess something around 60ish should be possible, no?
 
santino said:
Brian, do you know what the shortest focal length Sonnar in SLR mount is? I had the J9 in M42 mount, but I guess something around 60ish should be possible, no?
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I am obviously not Sonnar B, but I have read that the 58mm/2 Takumar in M42 screwmount is supposed to be a Sonnar design. Brian will probably weigh in at some point. My source for info is this page, click on the blue text that says 6 elements in 4 groups following Lens Construction heading to see the lens diagram. Sure looks like a Sonnar design.
lens-db.com

Asahi Takumar 58mm F/2

Standard prime lens. Announced: 1957. Production status: Discontinued. Maximum format: 35mm full frame. Mount: M42. Fast speed. Manual focus only. Preset diaphragm. 10 aperture blades. Lightweight. Compact.
lens-db.com lens-db.com
 
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dexdog said:
I am obviously not Sonnar B, but I have read that the 58mm/2 Takumar in M42 screwmount is supposed to be a Sonnar design. Brian will probably weigh in at some point
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Thanks for your response, I should have directed the question to all 😄

58 is pretty short, I guess that Takumar is rare and expensive. Got to start a lil search on the net 😉
 
The Pentax 58 has some features of a Sonnar, but adds an element to stretch out the back focus. The 85mm F2 is the shortest classic Sonnar design lens for a 35mm SLR that I know of. In Nikon F-Mount, the 10.5cm F2.5 was slightly changed from the RF version to add an extra 1mm of back focus. With Mirrorless lenses- all can be used.

The J-8 compared with the pre-war CZJ 5cm F2 Sonnar: the latter is much easier to center the optics, The front element and middle group are stamped into brass fixtures. The J-8: the front element and triplet have a spacer between them and are held in place by the name ring. The J-3 is much closer in design to the pre-war 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, but the front element of the Sonnar "Fits into place snugly" comapred to most J-3's.
 
Been using a Visoflex on my M10 for any lens I own with a significant amount of shift. The issue has become a non-issue.
 
Sonnar Brian said:
The Clarity in the photos from the Bertele Sonnar are amazing. It is better than any of my F2 Sonnars. On my list to compare with- the C-Sonnar and "perfect-glass" original CZJ LTM 5cm F1.5 Sonnar T. The mount of the Bertele is better designed than the C-Sonnar, which can pick up a "Wobble". There is no backlash as often appears in the classic LTM Sonnars.
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Stop it! ROTFLMAO My evil twin is saying the Skyllaney Bertele would be good to own for what you have outlined: excellent engineering and execution. From what I have read and what I have seen of your images this is a fine lens, a really fine lens. And it works on an X2D. That must be a sign. Probably would work on an M and a Pixii. Oh, my, a triple threat. Does that reduce the effective cost by 2/3?
 
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Ha!! So THAT’s why I like my Sonnar lenses so much!

Seriously, thank you, Brian, for the detailed write-up and the excellent pictures. I have a bunch of Sonnar and Sonnar-formula lenses. The one I love the most, though, is the post-war, Opton Sonnar 50mm f2.0. I am continually amazed at its resolving power. Looking forward to the arrival of a new batch of Amedeo adapters, so I can use this lens on my Barnack Leicas w/ a first rate adapter.
 
Does anyone have the final cost to one of these unique Bertele Sonnar new lenses?
I am interested in using such a lens one day. Then I can compare the results with the results from one out of several Sonnar 5cm lenses that Brian kindly provided me with over the past years.
 
Last year Skyllaney sold one of the two 1936 coated Sonnars that served as the design basis for the new lens--it and its sister had the highest MTFs of all the lenses they had tested for that purpose (100+ were thus evaluated). It was fitted with a bespoke M mount and sold for about US$1300. Can't imagine that this new one will sell for less.
 
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Well I heard back from them today:

We don't have a release date or price at the moment, as the pre-production copies are undergoing reviews and tests to see if we need to make any changes (which would affect the price too). Once we have feedback from multiple sources, we'll be able to move on to the next phase and will release the information as soon as we have it. You are correct about one thing - making it exclusively in the UK doesn't come cheap, unfortunately.
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wlewisiii said:
Well I heard back from them today:
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They have a lot of equipment they have to amortize. They have put their foot into the ring of lens manufacturers. They must have a price that will attract buyers and still keep the lights on. A Silicon Valley software foundry raised the price of their package $10 per month for some months. Then they reviewed sales, found the sweet spot and set their price there. Skyllaney does not have that luxury. Finding the right market price is not easy. I wish them luck. From Brian's reviews. written and images, their Bertele is quite a nice lens.

For sheer impertinence I would like to slap it on my PIxii and do some shooting.
 
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