akk2
Established
If this is about the same price as the old one, I will get the old one for sure. (With a hood!)The new one seems like will have a new designed hood too (and more expensive!)
For pricing, exchange rate is a big deal (please look at 3 years ago, 120 yen to 1 USD)
Price adjustments seems fair when everything is about international trade.
People always love Leica's more and that's true for me too. But recently finished my investing my Summicrons (28-75), I start look for some kind of lens for special propose like the 35/1.2. I think Voigltander's new 35/1.2 is more like same value in photography(Not price) like the 12mm. They are something no one ever made for 35mm photography.
For pricing, exchange rate is a big deal (please look at 3 years ago, 120 yen to 1 USD)
Price adjustments seems fair when everything is about international trade.
People always love Leica's more and that's true for me too. But recently finished my investing my Summicrons (28-75), I start look for some kind of lens for special propose like the 35/1.2. I think Voigltander's new 35/1.2 is more like same value in photography(Not price) like the 12mm. They are something no one ever made for 35mm photography.
david.elliott
Well-known
Mister E
Well-known
You could or couldn't care less?
Any release date?
steveyork
Well-known
Yes, but Leica too has raised prices drastically in the last several years. And it's not all do to inflation and weakening of my home currency. But I understand your position, because I feel the same way with Leica. My Leica stuff which I purchased new 6-8 years ago, would now cost 100% more. And they're the same products, except for the price tag.
MCTuomey
Veteran
chrome front rings have never been a problem for me. all my zeiss lenses have them. if you're bayonetting hoods or screwing in filters often, i'm sure the finish will wear better than black paint ... maybe that's why CV went to chrome in the first place.
i don't understand all the price mewling. you want a particular lens for whatever reason, be prepared to pay for it. the market reflects value (what people will pay). don't have the money or don't want to pay so much for a lens? i'm sure there are others in your range that will suit - and your pictures will suffer very little, or not at all. very shortly you'll be able to choose b/w a used or NOS 35/1.2 at one price point and a new one at a higher price point. i mean, how good is that!
i don't understand all the price mewling. you want a particular lens for whatever reason, be prepared to pay for it. the market reflects value (what people will pay). don't have the money or don't want to pay so much for a lens? i'm sure there are others in your range that will suit - and your pictures will suffer very little, or not at all. very shortly you'll be able to choose b/w a used or NOS 35/1.2 at one price point and a new one at a higher price point. i mean, how good is that!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
If the market reflects what people are prepared to pay, then customer complaints about rapid and extreme price increases are not only valid but absolutely necessary to the function of the market. Contrary to popular belief, a free market does not mean "Businesses can do what they want and the customers just have to bend over and take it while begging for it harder".
raid
Dad Photographer
I have no price mewling atack here.
It is simply an opinion that I happen to have.
Maybe it is a fond thinking back to the times when lenses were less costly than they are today. The 35/1.2 was on my GAS radar when it initially came out, but I did not buy such lens because of the size of the lens and not because of the price.
Having the opportunity to buy such a lens cannot be worse than not having such an opportunity. I don't think that anyone dwells on such a point.
MCTuomey
Veteran
I think the only complaint that matters is for buyers to refuse to purchase the overpriced item. Nothing, absolutely nothing, will be more effective in reducing a price than for a seller to have no buyers at a given price. (And the converse is true also: nothing will be more effective in increasing a price than for a seller to have a buyer willing to pay more than a given price.)
Where I think markets need oversight is when critical goods or services are supplied monopolistically (no competition or substitutable items).
I agree with you about free markets. "Free market" is a euphemism. Many markets are regulated or managed in different ways, e.g. tariffs, trade agency oversight, tax policy, etc. We can debate the effectiveness and practice, but business has long been expected to work within a regulated environment.
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Tom A
RFF Sponsor
What are everybody complaining about! We dont even know what the price for the vII 35f1.2 will be!
Dealers can set their prices as they like - particularly on short supply items. The vI 35f1.2 was and probably still will be one of the great bargains. Have you checked the Leica prices lately? 35f1.4 Asph II @ $5000+, the 50f1.4 asph @ $3500 etc.
When the 35f1.2 came out, it was less than $1000 - for a cutting edge design and extremely high performance. It is still unique in the 35mm world.
Currency fluctuations do play a part. Three to four years ago a Yen 80 000 lens would cost less than $650 to buy (yen 120/$) - today it would be pretty close to $1000 (Yen 83/$). No manufacturer can afford to absorb that kind of of price shift.
The Euro has taken a bit of a dive lately - but so far I haven't seen Leica do a corresponding price drop on their products!
Dealers can set their prices as they like - particularly on short supply items. The vI 35f1.2 was and probably still will be one of the great bargains. Have you checked the Leica prices lately? 35f1.4 Asph II @ $5000+, the 50f1.4 asph @ $3500 etc.
When the 35f1.2 came out, it was less than $1000 - for a cutting edge design and extremely high performance. It is still unique in the 35mm world.
Currency fluctuations do play a part. Three to four years ago a Yen 80 000 lens would cost less than $650 to buy (yen 120/$) - today it would be pretty close to $1000 (Yen 83/$). No manufacturer can afford to absorb that kind of of price shift.
The Euro has taken a bit of a dive lately - but so far I haven't seen Leica do a corresponding price drop on their products!
leicashot
Well-known
Tom increases are expected from the industry and VC actually took their time to increase prices, which was obviously good for the market, but this is what happened.
1. Price went up several hundred dollars on announcement of its discontinuation.
2. Silence about it's replacement hinted that maybe there wouldn't be a replacement, pushing the market to buy at the inflated price.
3. A second increase was implemented.
4. Finally CV announce the replacement.
By law, no one has done anything wrong, but I can undertand if consumers feel that ethically and in comparison to other marketing tactics by similar manufacturers, they feel let down.
I don't think anyone (with experience/merit) 'believes' the lens is over-priced. My personal opinion is that it was under-priced all along, and even at a high price of $2.5k, it's still a great alternative to the Leica lens at double the price, and IMHO, is no 'better' in performance. The only advantage I experienced was it's smaller size. The Nokton just draws with more 'feeling' but lets not go there.
I feel the market is just a little shocked because of the blunt price increases that happen to coincide with the product's discontinuation, without knowing anything about a replacement. I'm not aware of other manufacturers that partake in such pricing strategy upon a product's discontinuation.
Either way, the Nokton is a bargain at any price, and I'm first on the list for the mark II. Yay!
1. Price went up several hundred dollars on announcement of its discontinuation.
2. Silence about it's replacement hinted that maybe there wouldn't be a replacement, pushing the market to buy at the inflated price.
3. A second increase was implemented.
4. Finally CV announce the replacement.
By law, no one has done anything wrong, but I can undertand if consumers feel that ethically and in comparison to other marketing tactics by similar manufacturers, they feel let down.
I don't think anyone (with experience/merit) 'believes' the lens is over-priced. My personal opinion is that it was under-priced all along, and even at a high price of $2.5k, it's still a great alternative to the Leica lens at double the price, and IMHO, is no 'better' in performance. The only advantage I experienced was it's smaller size. The Nokton just draws with more 'feeling' but lets not go there.
I feel the market is just a little shocked because of the blunt price increases that happen to coincide with the product's discontinuation, without knowing anything about a replacement. I'm not aware of other manufacturers that partake in such pricing strategy upon a product's discontinuation.
Either way, the Nokton is a bargain at any price, and I'm first on the list for the mark II. Yay!
kemal_mumcu
Well-known
Leica and its M series are hot products now. Look at supply. Prices are going up. CV is along for the ride. I'd sooner pay 1 grand for the Nokton to 5K for the new 35 asph.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Remember when Leica discontinued the Noctilux 50f1.0? Prices doubled and almost tripled in a few short weeks. Once they announced the $10 000 50f 0.95 - they did stabilize though.
As for announcing a replacement - Manufacturers dont like to do that until they have sold out the stock in their warehouses! Dealers pay the same and it is up to them to set their prices. If they think they can get more for a "short" supply item - they will try to do that.
Voigtlander Cosina has a history of running small batches and then go on to something different. This can mean that "if you snooze - you loose". Look at the 28f3.5 Color Skopar and some of the S-mount lenses for Nikon Rf's.
The trick is to get what you want when it comes out. Waiting for "bargains" is fraught with hazards - you might have to pay more for a used item than you would have paid for a new one earlier on.
The 35f1.2 v1 was very successful - and a "discontinuation" notice would imply a new design coming. Do you want to splurge on a v1 or wait for a v2? Every manufacturer who changes something has a reason for doings so. Improving performance, cutting the cost of manufacturing etc. No manufacturer would knowingly replace a product with something inferior and risk the consumer backlash.
A couple of decades ago - pre-E-bay and RFf's classifieds we would have been stuck with local suppliers. Today we can shop world wide for the best prices. If a dealer charges too much - his customers will buy somewhere else - anywhere else.
In many ways - today the customer is the king, much more so than even a couple of decades ago!
I forgot - case in point here: The F mount lens adapter to Nikon Rf (allows you to use Nikon F lenses on your Nikon Rf's). Small run and once it was sold out -no more. Try to find one today for less than 2x the original price! Yes, I got one as soon as it was available - and use it with my F-mount 21f4 on a S2.
As for announcing a replacement - Manufacturers dont like to do that until they have sold out the stock in their warehouses! Dealers pay the same and it is up to them to set their prices. If they think they can get more for a "short" supply item - they will try to do that.
Voigtlander Cosina has a history of running small batches and then go on to something different. This can mean that "if you snooze - you loose". Look at the 28f3.5 Color Skopar and some of the S-mount lenses for Nikon Rf's.
The trick is to get what you want when it comes out. Waiting for "bargains" is fraught with hazards - you might have to pay more for a used item than you would have paid for a new one earlier on.
The 35f1.2 v1 was very successful - and a "discontinuation" notice would imply a new design coming. Do you want to splurge on a v1 or wait for a v2? Every manufacturer who changes something has a reason for doings so. Improving performance, cutting the cost of manufacturing etc. No manufacturer would knowingly replace a product with something inferior and risk the consumer backlash.
A couple of decades ago - pre-E-bay and RFf's classifieds we would have been stuck with local suppliers. Today we can shop world wide for the best prices. If a dealer charges too much - his customers will buy somewhere else - anywhere else.
In many ways - today the customer is the king, much more so than even a couple of decades ago!
I forgot - case in point here: The F mount lens adapter to Nikon Rf (allows you to use Nikon F lenses on your Nikon Rf's). Small run and once it was sold out -no more. Try to find one today for less than 2x the original price! Yes, I got one as soon as it was available - and use it with my F-mount 21f4 on a S2.
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I'll be interested to see the price of the V2. And I think the smaller size is an advantage, as the large size of V1 was a barrier to some buyers. At least I'm now more interested. Lastly, I hope it retains the optical character of the V1.
leicashot
Well-known
What are we all wanting in a V2? I'm already satisfied with my V1 but wouldn't mind the following.
1. A tad more sharpness wide open, but more so with added contrast
2. Better distortion correction and flatter field
3. Smaller/lighter
Other than that I'm a little concerned that they may improve some areas while compromising 'too much' on the areas that don't need improving. Either way I have the original V1 and won't be disappointed if V2 doesn't surpass it.
I think many will be focusing their attention on the X100 when it comes out anyway.
1. A tad more sharpness wide open, but more so with added contrast
2. Better distortion correction and flatter field
3. Smaller/lighter
Other than that I'm a little concerned that they may improve some areas while compromising 'too much' on the areas that don't need improving. Either way I have the original V1 and won't be disappointed if V2 doesn't surpass it.
I think many will be focusing their attention on the X100 when it comes out anyway.
Tipton
Tipton Photo
... now what about the 50 1.4 rumor! I just bought the 35 1.2 last month from Stephen, and I'm happy with it. If the V2 surpasses the image quality, then I'll care, until then I don't. What I DO care about, is that 50 1.4 rumored along with the new 35. My 50 1.5 Nokton is getting a little long in the tooth, would be great to have an M mount version
What would I want in the V2? A little smaller would be nice, the exact same performance would be great with the same price, yeah, I would be happy.
Otherwise, a used V1 would also be great for me.
leicashot
Well-known
... now what about the 50 1.4 rumor! I just bought the 35 1.2 last month from Stephen, and I'm happy with it. If the V2 surpasses the image quality, then I'll care, until then I don't. What I DO care about, is that 50 1.4 rumored along with the new 35. My 50 1.5 Nokton is getting a little long in the tooth, would be great to have an M mount version
A new Nokton with equal or better quality than the first would really elevate VC's status in the RF market. Include better build quality like the Nokton and people will pay happily handsomely for a competitive alternative to the Lux ASPH.
semordnilap
Well-known
I also never bought the first, mostly because of its size, so a smaller V2 does appeal to me–I don't have a fast 35 so I could be tempted. But I'm happy with what I have now for RF, so whether I get it will depend on price, feeling, and funds at a given moment. It's not a lens I'm pining for.
The CV lens I do wish I had bought was the SL 125 APO macro... now they're sky high in price, and totally unavailable even if I was in a position to spend $2.5K for one. That I do hope they'll revisit in the SL2 line. But RF lenses... I'm pretty happy where I am now–I can make all the pictures I need to.
The CV lens I do wish I had bought was the SL 125 APO macro... now they're sky high in price, and totally unavailable even if I was in a position to spend $2.5K for one. That I do hope they'll revisit in the SL2 line. But RF lenses... I'm pretty happy where I am now–I can make all the pictures I need to.
Tipton
Tipton Photo
My thoughts exactly.
Fingers crossed.