No crazy talk

Nikon Bob said:
OTH buying the cheaper hammer that can do everything and more that the expensive one can do could be considered a rational decision in some quarters. Going with the more expensive one and defending it as being not perfect but the only one it it's class could seem a little irrational by the same token. You are correct, banning makes no sense.

Bob
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Dear Bob,

First highlight: absolutely.

Second highlight: how about admitting that it isn't perfect while still maintaining (incontrovertibly) that it is, indeed, the only one in its class.

Cheers,

R.
 
Less than a page in and most of the usual canards have been posted already: Best camera on the planet for street photography. Small enough to fit in a coat pocket. Unparalleled image quality. The only true comment, It's the only camera of its kind! is the one that begs the question, why do you suppose that is?

From some of the evidence posted here, the sad fact seems to be that Leica ownership often puts the Leica owner's head in exactly the wrong place: obsessed with gear, convinced that hair-splitting difference in lens performance and the like are what he needs to make his photography good. The more he believes this, the more likely he is to remain blind to his lack of familiarity with the factors that really do matter: composition, lighting, imagination, etc..

There are lots of poor photographers taking bad pictures with expensive cameras in the world, but the M9 is about the most expensive camera out there, and its owners tend to crow rather smugly from their perches of imaginary superiority. Maybe that's the source of the animosity.
 
Dear Kevin,

The M9 the only one of its kind because no-one can make one cheaper (or sell it in large enough numbers to sell the 100,000 cameras they'd need to make to in order do so). There are actually several cameras that are more expensive (Alpa? Hasselblad?) but there are people who like what an M9 can do and are prepared to pay the money, even if it means making sacrifices elsewhere.

Sure, some of us are rotten photographers but I notice a conspicuous lack of pictures or links to pictures in your post. Are you so much better than the rest of us? Prove it!

Cheers,

R.
 
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kevin m said:
There are lots of poor photographers taking bad pictures with expensive cameras in the world, but the M9 is about the most expensive camera out there
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There's quite a number of more expensive cameras - some from exotic makers, others from mainstream makers. Roger mentioned Alpa, really nice cameras, I'd like to have one some day, but definitely exotic; on the other hand, over here an M9 costs 5500 EUR, while a Nikon D3X will cost well over 6000 EUR new. Still, the M9 polarizes much more than any Nikon camera, and of course more than an Alpa which hardly anyone actually knows.

Posts like yours kind of prove the point.
 
r2d2 said:
You 're a funny guy Roger.

You must be the new moderateur for europe. LOL.:D
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Nah. They couldn't pay me enough, even in the unlikely event they trusted me enough.

It just struck me that 'kevin m' is someone I've only ever seen attack others. He may be a brilliant photographer. I don't know: I don't recall any of his work.

I may be no Ernst Haas, Ansel Adams or Raghu Rai, but at least I take pictures and admit to it (with links).

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Well, Kevin, you're still on ignore, but foolishly I viewed your latest offering.
(...)
Before accusing others of recto-cranial inversion, look for the beam in thine own eye. Or thy head in thine own ***.
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Please, Roger, put Kevin back onto your ignore list, so I/we don't have to endure your swearing. Mille grazie in advance.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Bob,

First highlight: absolutely.

Second highlight: how about admitting that it isn't perfect while still maintaining (incontrovertibly) that it is, indeed, the only one in its class.

Cheers,

R.
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Well, I guess on that point I will just have to agree to disagree. On a consumer item I can see no rational reason to accept incontrovertibly being the only one in it's class as a rational excuse to accept anything less that what I would expect as an acceptable norm for the general class the item fell into. If you must absolutely have the one and only then you just accept what it brings to the table. Either view point is correct depending on where you sit.

Bob
 
Nikon Bob said:
Well, I guess on that point I will just have to agree to disagree. On a consumer item I can see no rational reason to accept incontrovertibly being the only one in it's class as a rational excuse to accept anything less that what I would expect as an acceptable norm for the general class the item fell into. If you must absolutely have the one and only then you just accept what it brings to the table. Either view point is correct depending on where you sit.

Bob
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Dear Bob,

For me, it's not a consumer item. It's a professional tool.

Also, what are you calling a 'general class'? Full-frame (24x36mm) rangefinder cameras? Name the other one?

I don't have to persuade you. I do have to persuade the tax man. So do some others I know who have bought the camera. We don't see that as a problem.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Harry,

F2? Revisionist revanchist modernist! F!

Cheers,

R.
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hahaha..., ok, ok. How about this. ;-)

Nikon F - As reliable as a hockey-puck.

Actually I like my black 1959/60 F more than my F2...

To be honest I love that F more than almost any other camera I own.
Just don't tell my Leicas...
 
Sometimes it seems that criticising the Leica Digital is akin to picking on the handicapped kid next door ... even though he stole your bicycle and poisoned your goldfish, lay a hand on him and suddenly you're the villain! :p
 
Impressive.

After less than a dozen posts this thread is already headed for the funny farm.

"No crazy talk."

There really is something about Leicas that drives people over the edge.


Luckily I have a few rolls of film to develop. I guess I'll come back in a few hours from now and see if there are any survivors.
 
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Dislikes: I cannot afford one.

For the most part that keeps me out of discussions about digital Leica M cameras. I do like their film offerings though, so I would probably like the M9 as well.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Bob,

For me, it's not a consumer item. It's a professional tool.

Also, what are you calling a 'general class'? Full-frame (24x36mm) rangefinder cameras? Name the other one?

I don't have to persuade you. I do have to persuade the tax man. So do some others I know who have bought the camera. We don't see that as a problem.

Cheers,

R.
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There is where our view points differ, consumer vs pro tool, so you really will never have any agreement. By "general class" I mean camera digital FF for the use of, it being the only member of a sub group of that general class cuts it no slack for me as I view it as a consumer item subject to discretionary spending and not a pro must have at any cost item. I am not trying to persuade you as your view point is very different from step one. Good luck with the tax man.

Bob
 
I have an M8.2. And have owned 2 M8s.

What I like about them:
- I can shoot digital and use a rangefinder (which is really what it all comes down to.)
- The size.
- Ability to use so many different lenses (varying by both age and manufacturer.)
- Great image quality.

What I don't like.
- Price.
- Poor battery life.
- The inescapable feeling that it's about to let me down. All three of my digital Ms have been buggy to some degree or another.
- The realization that it does not compete well against Nikon or Canon DSLRs in the category of high ISO performance.
- Relatively slow write speed/small buffer.
 
What I like is small size and small fast lenses. When walking at night in a city I cnacarry a 24 35 50 and 75 luxes and have a small bag and less shoulder ache then a canon or nikon. Also people are just not threatened by an m9
Dislikes price, iso above 1250 . Now that I have 2 M9s buffer does not bother me as much but it should be bigger 12 to 15 frames would be fine.
David
 
Roger Hicks said:
...For me, it's not a consumer item. It's a professional tool. Also, what are you calling a 'general class'? Full-frame (24x36mm) rangefinder cameras? Name the other one? ...
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Most professionals have signaled their disagreement by choosing to shoot with other cameras. Perhaps they're all crazy, though.

And now I can add "faux naif" to your bag of rhetorical tricks (along with naked profanity, when that fails.) "General class" refers to cameras that take pictures, of course. Not "full-frame rangefinder cameras that start with the letter 'L'."

I post pictures here all the time. In threads in which you evidently don't participate. I'll post more later for your amusement.
 
I own M8's and an M9. Plus some film gear, mostly MF. Only other digitals are Ricoh pocket size Gr and Gx's.

Likes:
small, can handhold for long periods, not much stuff to carry (one body, 1 or 2 lenses, mostly), intuitive operation.
the bugs are mostly out of the M8 and M9
the best lenses and most natural operation lies pretty much where I want to shoot. Wide angles are awesome in quality.
great clean colors at base to medium ISO
no AA-filter

Dislikes
digital M rangefinder seems less robust than it was for film M's, but that may be a result of pixel-peeping that is possible with M8 and M9.
IR filters.

scott

http://www.pbase.com/skirkp
 
All my Leicas have since found new homes, but since for many years I was an ardent user I think I am entitled to my say.

In my doddering twilight years I would do whatever necessary to obtain an X1 if:

1. it had a viewfinder

2. it had a slightly lower price

These conditions will never obtain and so I'm left with a different (D700) animal.

Poor me.
 
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