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Prosaic™
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Depends on application dont you think?
Nokton 50/1.5 vs Nokton 50/1.1
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Depends on application dont you think?
leicashot
Well-known
One can assume that the only people to knock this lens are those that own similar lenses and paid more for them, or internet junkies who think they can tell a lens's performance just by looking at useless images of flowers and cats on various forums (flame away).
Dissapointed owners of this lens probably only bought it for it's isolation abilities and were dissapointed because it's 'well corrected'. Obviously this lens was intended for low light application and designed to give sharp and contrasty results at maximum aperture, so one can only assume that the owners that bought/sold this lens weren't the intended market anyway.
This is on my list as my next lens purchase, just waiting on a pay cheque ;-)
Dissapointed owners of this lens probably only bought it for it's isolation abilities and were dissapointed because it's 'well corrected'. Obviously this lens was intended for low light application and designed to give sharp and contrasty results at maximum aperture, so one can only assume that the owners that bought/sold this lens weren't the intended market anyway.
This is on my list as my next lens purchase, just waiting on a pay cheque ;-)
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Uncle Bill
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Honestly the 1.1 and the 1.5 are different animals sharing the same focal length and the name.
Of the two I would take the 1.5 Nokton so I can use filters from my Nikkor lenses and it is a little less cumbersome. I have no idea why Voightander stopped making it, the Nokton 1.5 had such a solid rep.
Of the two I would take the 1.5 Nokton so I can use filters from my Nikkor lenses and it is a little less cumbersome. I have no idea why Voightander stopped making it, the Nokton 1.5 had such a solid rep.
nome_alice
Established
of all the 50mm (f1.4-f2) lenses i've used for any camera system the nokton 50/1.5 has knocked my socks off the most (actually second most, as i borrowed an Summicron-R 50/2 very briefly - but didn't like the R4 it was attached to).
if i shot 50mm more often i would probably get the 50/1.1 but i shoot 35mm most of the time so there was no questioning the purchase of the 35/1.2 - i had to have it 🙂
voigtlander producing the 50/1.1 shows they're serious about the future. although i won't be buying one it makes me happy to see the way they are going.
if i shot 50mm more often i would probably get the 50/1.1 but i shoot 35mm most of the time so there was no questioning the purchase of the 35/1.2 - i had to have it 🙂
voigtlander producing the 50/1.1 shows they're serious about the future. although i won't be buying one it makes me happy to see the way they are going.
Krosya
Konicaze
Well,
While I did go with a more expensive lens and I do believe its a better lens- Hexanon 50/1.2, - I had a choice, as I got it after new 50/1.1 came out. Every photo I have seen from Hex I like the way it draws. Not the case with 50/1.1. And Hex doesnt cost THAT much more. But anyway, if you think I'm trying to justify my more expensive lens, here is another example - I have a cheaper CV 35/1.2. Same brand and all, yet a better lens in my eyes - better bokeh, better isolation of a subject, just better overall and costs less. So, how do you explain that?
But than again, if you like the new Nokton 50/1.1, which is not a bad lens, really, get one. Show us what you can do with it. Otherwise - it's all just talk.
maddoc
... likes film again.
What kind of scientist are you ?
Science means repeating the same experiment over and over until a set of results within a certain error margin is obtained that can be used to prove a theory right or wrong. Everything else is reading tea leaves and unfortunately lots of "results" obtained by the latter method are submitted to high ranking journals lately ... :bang: (/rant-mode off)
leicashot
Well-known
Seriously guys we can argue all day. I say post a pic from actual usage and we'll decide what the best picture is!!! Screw what lens is best....a great lens is a waste in the hands of a poor photographer, so lets post some pics already!?!?
Lord knows I need to step up my own game to fully utilize any great lens.
Lord knows I need to step up my own game to fully utilize any great lens.
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Prosaic™
Guest
You might be better off with faster film and a Summicron.
chikarin
Member
and if he's already using a faster film?
HenningW
Well-known
I used to have a 50/1.5 Nokton. Unfortunately I never liked the look of the images very much, and when it started having mechanical issues I had it fixed and sold it. I had a 50/1.2 Noctilux a long time ago, and when the f/1 came out I compared them and got the f/1. I had it for a long time, but after a while didn't take that many pictures with it (mostly because I didn't feel like hauling a lens of that size/weight around) so I sold it.
In the mid 90's I saw another 50/1 in pristine condition for a superb price so I bought it. It still doesn't get used an awful lot, but it is the only f/1 lens I have 😉 and the investment wasn't that great, so I've kept it, but mostly use the 50/1.4 ASPH.
Last Friday Tom A. loaned me his blueprinted f/1.1 Nokton, and I shot the two high speed lenses side by side on M8's. For the most critical stuff I used the same body and switched lenses. I took about 600 shots.
The Nokton has higher contrast at f/1.1 than the Noctilux at f/1. Flare levels are quite close, but the Noctilux has a slight bit less so that shadows are a bit darker than those of the Nokton. The Nokton has a lot less focus shift, so between that and the higher contrast and resulting sharpness the Nokton is a much better all-round lens. A bit of distortion in such a lens doesn't bother me, and both have about the same level. By f/5.6 or 8 they are about equal in overall performance, but from f/1.4 on neither can be confused with a 50/1.4 ASPH.
I took a number of shots of evenly lit surfaces, and tried to determine the relative transmission. The Nokton transmitted about 0.47 stops less at 3500°K at the center of the image. I would assume that in daylight that difference might well be less, as the Noctilux is known for being a 'warm' lens and optimized for warmer wavelengths. As my Noctilux is coded, I assume that in-camera correction took care of the slight falloff over the M8 frame, making it definitely less than that of the Nokton. In any case, vignetting wasn't an issue with either lens.
In general, I'm OK with the general look of either lens. The Noctilux has softer OOF areas, and the perception of isolation is definitely greater. This is probably due to the slightly shallower actual depth of field as well as the types of correction. In any case, none of the harshness in either of the lenses of the 50/1.5 shots.
The size and weight of both lenses is still an issue, but as a new high speed lens the Nokton is excellent, and especially excellent value as are most Voigtlaender lenses. If I were looking for a high speed 50 now, the Nokton would be at the top of my list since I am certainly not going to spring for the f/0.95. As things stand, I'll keep my Noctilux.
In the mid 90's I saw another 50/1 in pristine condition for a superb price so I bought it. It still doesn't get used an awful lot, but it is the only f/1 lens I have 😉 and the investment wasn't that great, so I've kept it, but mostly use the 50/1.4 ASPH.
Last Friday Tom A. loaned me his blueprinted f/1.1 Nokton, and I shot the two high speed lenses side by side on M8's. For the most critical stuff I used the same body and switched lenses. I took about 600 shots.
The Nokton has higher contrast at f/1.1 than the Noctilux at f/1. Flare levels are quite close, but the Noctilux has a slight bit less so that shadows are a bit darker than those of the Nokton. The Nokton has a lot less focus shift, so between that and the higher contrast and resulting sharpness the Nokton is a much better all-round lens. A bit of distortion in such a lens doesn't bother me, and both have about the same level. By f/5.6 or 8 they are about equal in overall performance, but from f/1.4 on neither can be confused with a 50/1.4 ASPH.
I took a number of shots of evenly lit surfaces, and tried to determine the relative transmission. The Nokton transmitted about 0.47 stops less at 3500°K at the center of the image. I would assume that in daylight that difference might well be less, as the Noctilux is known for being a 'warm' lens and optimized for warmer wavelengths. As my Noctilux is coded, I assume that in-camera correction took care of the slight falloff over the M8 frame, making it definitely less than that of the Nokton. In any case, vignetting wasn't an issue with either lens.
In general, I'm OK with the general look of either lens. The Noctilux has softer OOF areas, and the perception of isolation is definitely greater. This is probably due to the slightly shallower actual depth of field as well as the types of correction. In any case, none of the harshness in either of the lenses of the 50/1.5 shots.
The size and weight of both lenses is still an issue, but as a new high speed lens the Nokton is excellent, and especially excellent value as are most Voigtlaender lenses. If I were looking for a high speed 50 now, the Nokton would be at the top of my list since I am certainly not going to spring for the f/0.95. As things stand, I'll keep my Noctilux.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Henning, a very interesting and well balanced comparison of both lenses.
EDIT: "comparison" seems to be a better term.
EDIT: "comparison" seems to be a better term.
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Prosaic™
Guest
Makes total sense. Thanks.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Henning and I have now traded lenses for a film test. I am shooting with the Nokton/Noctilux combo on a MP/R3M Bessa and Adox 25 asa film. One roll with each camera/lens (MP/Nocti -Bessa R3M/Nokton) and then a switch (MP/Nokton - R3M Noctilux) and as a final run another roll of Adox with a 50f1.2 Canon. Probably be done this weekend and film souped on monday.
john_s
Well-known
Seems like a lot. That would make the Nokton an f1.2 lens, not f1.1.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
WOOOHOOO TOM...Tres COOOL
can't Wait to see the pixs
In the Meantime Have a Fantastic,....GRAND BIRTHDAY BASH
You & Eric are my FAVORITE AUG 21st Lads !!!
Cheers- Helen
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Helen, please wish Eric all the best for his birthday. It is kind of scary when they start coming so fast. It is only about 600 rolls since my last one!!!!!
maddoc
... likes film again.
B'day, today ?? All the best to you, Tom ! 🙂 Helen, my best wishes to Eric !
Have a great day, guys !! ... Tom, time for the next 600 rolls !! 😀
Cheers,
Gabor
Have a great day, guys !! ... Tom, time for the next 600 rolls !! 😀
Cheers,
Gabor
HenningW
Well-known
Yes it would, but as I noted it's in the center and in relatively warm light. In those circumstances there does seem to be a 1/2 stop difference. If you take the transmission averaged over the frame you wouldn't get as much due to the greater falloff of the Noctilux, and in daylight you would also not have quite as much difference. I did some rough measurement of the geometry, and the Nokton seems to be very slightly slower than f/1.1, but this should not be taken too seriously because my technique wasn't the best. The usual JCI standards allow for a fair variation from nominal focal lengths as well as aperture, so this does not imply improper marking.
In any case, shooting the lenses side by side clearly shows the Noctilux to be faster to some degree. In the Noctilux' defence regarding performance and aberration control, in this f/1 - f/1.1 range even that little bit has quite an influence on design parameters which does not detract from the great job Cosina did in designing the Nokton.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Just posted a quick, informal test on our Flickr. This was with my 50f1.1, Hennings 50f1.0 - both of which have been checked over by the respective factories. The Canon 50f1.2 is my old one.
Boring shots and no manipulation whatsoever - straight scans, dust and all.
Later I will post some actual shots of "real" things - done with the three lenses and Adox 25 CHS film.
Boring shots and no manipulation whatsoever - straight scans, dust and all.
Later I will post some actual shots of "real" things - done with the three lenses and Adox 25 CHS film.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Great, I'm going to go look at this now! I sold my Canon 1.2 and just got the Nokton today...I liked the Canon's weird bokeh but it was soft at the corners, I thought, even stopped down, and I didn't use it much.
I kind of can't believe how huge the Nokton is, though...
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