Nokton 50mm/f1.1 Review on the Leica M9

This review skips over what I recall as a main point in Sean Reid's review: the lens' big problem with focus shift. Please go back & check this out? If Sean just had a bad copy, I'd like to know.

Kirk
 
thompsonks said:
This review skips over what I recall as a main point in Sean Reid's review: the lens' big problem with focus shift. Please go back & check this out? If Sean just had a bad copy, I'd like to know.

Kirk
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We mentioned this: "(...)Most of the time I like the results and don’t see the problems that some users have reported (like back focus). Was I lucky with my copy? I don’t know, but my Nokton seems to be working as expected(...)"

There isn't much to say when our copy doesn't exibit any signs of back-focus, Reid probably was unlucky with his copy :rolleyes:

Cheers,
 
Krosya said:
Thanks for the review.
A couple of comments. First - I can never understand comments on build quality. It's all subjective, I think, unless you take the lens apart and see how it is made. Some lenses feel solid, but have a lot of plastic parts and will not last as long as others. Many CV lenses fall into that category - having taking some of the apart I have better idea about the real build quality. Not to say that it stops me from having many CV lenses.
Second - while I understand why CV 50/1.1 is always compared to Noctilux, but I think that it would be interesting to compare it to M-Hexanon 50/1.2. I have this lens and I think it performs better than CV, yet doesnt cost as much as Noctilux.
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I would love to get my hands on a Hexanon 50/1.2, but at this time it was impossible. You are right about the comment on "buid quality", but we were trying to focus on the "feeling" part, one can always feel the build quality of a lens when it sits on their hands.

Cheers,
 
Where did you see it taken apart? In a thread that you point out - only mount of the lens is off, as far as I can tell. All the important/possibly problem parts are not shown. Barrel that holds glass and appreture blades mechanism cant be seen from photos in that thread. So, based on that onlly - it still is hard to say how well the lens is made.
Another example - CV 32/1.2 - favorite of mine as well as many other's. Looks and feels good and solid, yet there were reports of appr. blades falling out/lose. And there are several other examples in CV line.
Sorry to steer this away from the topic.
 
Personal preference is so strong. While I lust after a Nocti, I'm not at all tempted by the Nokton 1.1. (I'm not saying that this is correct or that it makes sense; it's just the way it is.) I have played with both lenses a bit, and it left me thinking "Nocti or bust." But that's just my experience ...
 
"Your review is not good. It does not conform to Huff's or Reid's therefore it cannot be a good review"

Just kidding. I enjoyed YOUR personal thoughts. Good reading.
 
I thought Steve Huff's review was very fair.

The Nokton is a fine lens, and unless you need f1 an awful lot of the time I can't see the value of a Noctilux. When the 50mm Summilux was on the waiting list I bought a Nokton to see if I'd like it, or maybe a Noctilux at a later date. I can't grumble at all with the output of the Nokton at any aperture. But it decided me that sticking with the Summilux was still a better idea. I've yet to see a stunning wide open photograph by anybody using a Noctilux or Nokton that raised itself above a party trick in using ultra narrow DOF.

Steve
 
250swb said:
I thought Steve Huff's review was very fair.

The Nokton is a fine lens, and unless you need f1 an awful lot of the time I can't see the value of a Noctilux. When the 50mm Summilux was on the waiting list I bought a Nokton to see if I'd like it, or maybe a Noctilux at a later date. I can't grumble at all with the output of the Nokton at any aperture. But it decided me that sticking with the Summilux was still a better idea. I've yet to see a stunning wide open photograph by anybody using a Noctilux or Nokton that raised itself above a party trick in using ultra narrow DOF.

Steve
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What about using an f/1 lens in very dark conditions? I agree that the bokeh party trick can be overdone.
 
Thardy said:
What about using an f/1 lens in very dark conditions? I agree that the bokeh party trick can be overdone.
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But how often will 'wide open' in really dark conditions show a great image? The DOF is so shallow it can't be for rendering interior scenes (unless its still life) can it? How much of the image would be recognisable? If you shot in a cafe or bar you'd get more bokeh than recognisable structure to the image. So its for more distant scenes, possibly for theatre work, but then its only 50mm so you loose out in reach. Maybe its for street scenes, but you are back to square one, more DOF than structure. Is it for sports maybe? But again you need to be close enough to fill the frame, but not so close you get such a narrow DOF the overall subject is unrecognisable. And even then, focusing is so critical in all the scenarios that the failure rate is massive even with perfect vision, a perfectly calibrated lens and body, and supremely quick reflexes.



Steve
 
I have just picked up a Nokton 50mm today and am really looking forward to seeing how it performs. I have been doubtful about it on two counts - am I up to focussing it correctly wide open and the quality of its bokeh which in many samples I have seen look a bit "caffeinated" (love that description which somehow says it all.)

I have only shot half a dozen images so far and on both counts so far I am reasonably happy. I am also pleased that the speed of this thing at last gives me a reasonable option for shooting my M8 in low light - the M8 is a quite poor performer in these conditions in its au naturele state. I will no doubt be posting shots in the near term.

I would be interested in seeing other peoples' images and hearing their impressions.

The following shot is from its cousin the 75mm f1.8 shot wide open last weekend . If the Nokton's image quality approaches this I will be very happy.

5637660646_e490f0620d_b.jpg
 
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thompsonks said:
This review skips over what I recall as a main point in Sean Reid's review: the lens' big problem with focus shift. Please go back & check this out? If Sean just had a bad copy, I'd like to know.

Kirk
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Hi Kirk
Seems to me that not all of the Noktons suffer from focus shift. I was checking two Noktons in Bangkok two days ago, as I have to buy one for a friend and I ended up not to buy it, because there was focus shift once you close down to f2.8 or if you were further away than minium distance. On minimum distance wide open focus was exactly as it should be. So I decided not to buy the lens.
Now the point ... today in Hongkong we found one last Nokton at Tin Cheung Camera - and that one was perfect on every aperture at every distance ... I was quiet surprised and amazed!
So once again it seems there are variations on Voigtländer lenses, a matter we don't deal with on Leica lenses ... but we have to pay for it :)
Hope it helps ... you have to try till you find a good one, there are really good ones around. Good luck!
Nik
 
All of the Noktons suffer from focus shift as you stop down- it is due to the optical formula of the lens. What can change- the optimal point of focus of the individual lens. There can be some deviation in exact focal length, and the exact point of focus. After optimizing mine for the M9, I notice little in the way of shift in real-world circum stance. I set the F1.1 to optial, F2 is good, from there go to F5.6.
 
I see this all the time with fast lenses where people think that "some copies" do or don't have focus shift. Bottom line: In a non-aspherical design with no floating elements, focus shift is a GIVEN in the design. It isn't something that varies from copy to copy. As Brian points out, the precise optimization of the focal point of the lens, and how that relates to your rangefinder's calibration, plus your own ability/shooting style can result in making it *appear* as some lenses don't have focus shift--but in a controlled test, such lenses will show the truth.

The Nokton does have focus shift--but guess what, so does the f/1 Noctilux! You can see this clearly demonstrated in my side-by-side images in my review:

http://www.digitalhapeman.com/Digit...__Ultra-fast_50mm_lenses_on_the_Leica_M9.html

Jeff
 
My experience with Nokton and focusshift

My experience with Nokton and focusshift

nik_nik9 said:
Hi Kirk
Seems to me that not all of the Noktons suffer from focus shift. I was checking two Noktons in Bangkok two days ago, as I have to buy one for a friend and I ended up not to buy it, because there was focus shift once you close down to f2.8 or if you were further away than minium distance. On minimum distance wide open focus was exactly as it should be. So I decided not to buy the lens.
Now the point ... today in Hongkong we found one last Nokton at Tin Cheung Camera - and that one was perfect on every aperture at every distance ... I was quiet surprised and amazed!
So once again it seems there are variations on Voigtländer lenses, a matter we don't deal with on Leica lenses ... but we have to pay for it :)
Hope it helps ... you have to try till you find a good one, there are really good ones around. Good luck!
Nik
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I recently bought a Nokton after having tried it a few times (in Singapore and Bangkok). I could not find any difference in any of them and I agree with the other forum members that it is something inherent to the lens.
After shooting with it a few months now I can say following :

At F1.1 I see no focus shift but the lens is of course little soft and less contrast. Still great pictures though and nothing LR cant fix
At F1.4 the lens performs superb. I would like to test it against a summilux at this aperture and see the differences !! This is where the lens shines for me.
At F2.0 I still cant detect any significant focus shift
Af F2.8 and F4.0 there is a focus shift if you measure it (around 2 inches) but this is hardly a problem. When shooting a portret at these apertures simply focus, take your shot, move your head back 2 inches and take another shot. Sort out the best shot when you're home. Simple. For many other shots (example a 'portrait' with more people it is not clear any way where exact focus should be)
At F5.6 up the DOF takes care of any focus shift.

So, instead of comparing the Nokton with the Noctilux, one should consider comparing it with the Summilux : great results at F1.4 at 1/4 of the cost of a summilux. As for the weight and size : 100 grams extra and similar length so also this is not a big deal for me.

And for the above poster regarding the lenses he checked in Bangkok : yep Bangkok does blur your eyesight sometimes :D
 
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