Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
E-P1 for me. No milk.
I just don't like the images coming out of the GF1. And the built-in stabilizer on the Olympus is a great plus. As for the flash, I don't use one. The AF issue is mainly a non-issue, see Mike Johnston's review: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/11/panasonic-gf1-vs-olympus-ep1.html
The E-P1 has also a few niceties that I find very useful when shooting, like the double electronic level on the LCD. Speaking of the LCD, I find it much more readable than an electronic viewfinder, including the one on the Panasonic G1. Framing the big picture on a 3" LCD reminds me of using the ground glass on my Linhof 13x18... I just don't understand why everybody is lamenting about the lack of an electronic viewfinder on the E-P1.
Cheers!
Abbazz
I just don't like the images coming out of the GF1. And the built-in stabilizer on the Olympus is a great plus. As for the flash, I don't use one. The AF issue is mainly a non-issue, see Mike Johnston's review: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/11/panasonic-gf1-vs-olympus-ep1.html
The E-P1 has also a few niceties that I find very useful when shooting, like the double electronic level on the LCD. Speaking of the LCD, I find it much more readable than an electronic viewfinder, including the one on the Panasonic G1. Framing the big picture on a 3" LCD reminds me of using the ground glass on my Linhof 13x18... I just don't understand why everybody is lamenting about the lack of an electronic viewfinder on the E-P1.
Cheers!
Abbazz
gnuyork
Well-known
Can anyone post pictures taken with either? i am looking for a small digital to keep with me at all times, but also could give me good large 13x19 prints. I have not purchased a point and shoot since the very first Digital Elph.
How is the shutter lag on these newer cameras?
How is the shutter lag on these newer cameras?
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
Came across this video comparing the autofocus of the EP-1 and the G1.
http://43rumors.com/a-new-e-p1-vs-g1-autofocus-video-test/
http://43rumors.com/a-new-e-p1-vs-g1-autofocus-video-test/
gnuyork
Well-known
Thanks for that video link.
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
i DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS DEBATE OVER PROPER ENGLISH USAGE OF CAPITALIZATIONS; raw AND jpeg SHOULD BE USED HOWEVER ONE CHOOSES.
~jOE
~jOE
W
Way
Guest
To me, just looking at the samples, especially at the higher ISO end, the ep-1 has better image quality, especially in the jpegs. That said, I did buy the GF-1 and I do like its ergonomics, 20mm lens and the EVF. Now that I have a couple of weeks with the GF1 under my belt, I think I'd like try the ep-1 for its ergonomics. But I may wait for the ep-2.
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
I kEpT the eP1 AlsO.........
'Cuse me....
My friend has the Panny and still, I can't get better IQ with it over my Pen......
The high ISO is close but the Pen does better. Maybe the IS helps but I won't be changing any time soon. That includes that Pen2....
ShOoTeR
'Cuse me....
My friend has the Panny and still, I can't get better IQ with it over my Pen......
The high ISO is close but the Pen does better. Maybe the IS helps but I won't be changing any time soon. That includes that Pen2....
ShOoTeR
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
I've been going back and fourth between the Panasonic and the Olympus. First the EP-1 then the GF1 then the EP-2. It almost feels like micro 4/3 deflation! You want to pick up one of them but who knows how fast they will release a another one!
Ramblings aside I'm in no hurry to buy any of them. I was initially looking at a digital M body but these 4/3's will save me a pretty penny. I think when I decide to buy one I'll just go look at them and see which one appeals to me more. I mean, they can't be that different right?
Ramblings aside I'm in no hurry to buy any of them. I was initially looking at a digital M body but these 4/3's will save me a pretty penny. I think when I decide to buy one I'll just go look at them and see which one appeals to me more. I mean, they can't be that different right?
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
No, they really can't.
In terms of build quality and image quality the two are very comparable and it's picking nits at that point. Ultimately it comes down to feature set and user interface, which are personal preference. For me the Panasonic has a much better user interface. Others may not care about this and weigh their choice in terms of in body IS or something else.
justins7
Well-known
Micro 4/3 is a breakthrough
Micro 4/3 is a breakthrough
I just received my GF1 and I love it. As a long-time Leica M6 user I have to say that this is the first digital camera that I can actually use. I have absolutely hated every other one I ever picked up (other than an RD1 and M9, which I can't afford).
I just started playing with my c-mount and vintage Leica screw-mount lenses -- and it's a joy to be able to use them on this "hybrid" system. It feels like you have this high-tech device that seems like it's been "split in half": the robotic inner-half handles the shutter speed, but you are finally allowed to control the focusing and aperture (and fun) yourself (with non-native lenses). I've mounted my Leica 50mm brightline finder on it, along with a Pentax 25mm CCTV lens, and I finally feel in control of a digital tool.
Focusing is weird, for sure; I often shut off the screen and zone focus, which can be hit-or-miss, but at least you can check your shot and refocus. It's a lot more enjoyable than any DSLR I've ever used (for me), and puts some of the fun and humanity back in photography. I think it's a real breakthrough.
Also, I am finding it easier to hand-hold than people have suggested, even without stabilization. I am used to hand-holding Contax rangefinder shots at 1/8. These are not always 100% in focus, but they are still great shots.
My only complaint is the loudness of the shutter, which seems to be exacerbated by the c-mount lens adapter. There is so much space around the tiny c-mount lens that the shutter seems to BANG right through the thin aluminum adapter disk. I am going to try using black foam-core or something around it to baffle some of the sound. Only the roar of the subway kept people on the train from being alerted.
Justin
Micro 4/3 is a breakthrough
I just received my GF1 and I love it. As a long-time Leica M6 user I have to say that this is the first digital camera that I can actually use. I have absolutely hated every other one I ever picked up (other than an RD1 and M9, which I can't afford).
I just started playing with my c-mount and vintage Leica screw-mount lenses -- and it's a joy to be able to use them on this "hybrid" system. It feels like you have this high-tech device that seems like it's been "split in half": the robotic inner-half handles the shutter speed, but you are finally allowed to control the focusing and aperture (and fun) yourself (with non-native lenses). I've mounted my Leica 50mm brightline finder on it, along with a Pentax 25mm CCTV lens, and I finally feel in control of a digital tool.
Focusing is weird, for sure; I often shut off the screen and zone focus, which can be hit-or-miss, but at least you can check your shot and refocus. It's a lot more enjoyable than any DSLR I've ever used (for me), and puts some of the fun and humanity back in photography. I think it's a real breakthrough.
Also, I am finding it easier to hand-hold than people have suggested, even without stabilization. I am used to hand-holding Contax rangefinder shots at 1/8. These are not always 100% in focus, but they are still great shots.
My only complaint is the loudness of the shutter, which seems to be exacerbated by the c-mount lens adapter. There is so much space around the tiny c-mount lens that the shutter seems to BANG right through the thin aluminum adapter disk. I am going to try using black foam-core or something around it to baffle some of the sound. Only the roar of the subway kept people on the train from being alerted.
Justin
gnuyork
Well-known
I downloaded some full size image samples and brought them into photoshop and did my thing to them, levels, sharpening, etc. and to my eyes the Ep1 files looked better than the GF1 files. Could be the particular files (got them from Dp Review).
Just for grins, I downloaded the X1, S2, M9, D3x, A900, 5DMkII, and a few others to see how the 4/3 held up.
The EP1 surprised me for what it is.
The S2 files were amazing, of course.
Just for grins, I downloaded the X1, S2, M9, D3x, A900, 5DMkII, and a few others to see how the 4/3 held up.
The EP1 surprised me for what it is.
The S2 files were amazing, of course.
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gnuyork
Well-known
I also brought some DP2 files into Photoshop. As far as small P&S cameras with larger sensors, based on image quality alone it would be hard to choose between the DP2 and the Ep-1.
Other factors added in would lean me toward the Ep-1 - lens choice, faster focus (I have heard the DP2 is very slow), and higher res files - although I up-sampled the DP2 to match the EP-1 and they still look very good. I have not tried to print any of these. perhaps I should try that and see which ones pop.
Other factors added in would lean me toward the Ep-1 - lens choice, faster focus (I have heard the DP2 is very slow), and higher res files - although I up-sampled the DP2 to match the EP-1 and they still look very good. I have not tried to print any of these. perhaps I should try that and see which ones pop.
gavinlg
Veteran
I just bought an E-p1 - will get here early next week.
Yammerman
Well-known
Decided I'd give m4/3 a try and plumped for the GF-1 in the end. Had a play with both GF-1 and EP-1 in the shop, the Panasonic felt better and I liked the lay out of the controls. I already have a TZ7 so it felt familar, I like what Panasonic are doing with their cameras at the moment. I have the 20mm and so far I'm pretty impressed. Think I'll end up with a view finder and I'll ditch the strap that it came with and get a wrist strap. Still exploring the controls but the MF focus is neat when it zooms. Sadly pouring with rain here in Wales so no pics this weekend I fear.
gavinlg
Veteran
Received my E-p1, first impressions are very very good. I love the body, the ergonomics are very good (a little cramped but it IS a small camera with a lot of buttons), IQ is great - Dynamic Range is up compared to my old E-3, approaching my 5d even.
Menus are fine for me, they aren't fantastic but I find them pretty easy to use. Maybe it's because I'm used to Oly menus.
AF is fine - it's not lightning quick but it's about the same or maybe slightly quicker than the canon g10/g11 and more functional IMO. I set it to center point AF, and in low contrast light, look for a point of contrast to get focus on, then recompose and click. Same as my 5d, and it works very very well. The whole AF performance problems people have are because they're overcomplicating things. Just set it to center point and recompose. It seriously works great. Oh, and it's not going to focus on a blank wall or dark patch either, it needs contrast to work well.
I got the 17mm kit - the OVF is great - I'm going to be using that for street work and it makes the camera feel very intuitive. The 17mm pancake is nice as well - tiny, well built and good optical quality. Considering it's price, it's pretty damn solid. Has a bit of chromatic aberration towards the edges but I've already set Adobe lightroom 3b to default correct for this. I have no problems using the lens wide open, even when I require corner sharpness.
Overall I'm pretty damn happy with it. Pending the rest of the weeks testing, I'm seriously considering taking it to Japan for 2.5 weeks on Monday week instead of my 5d. It would make traveling around much easier for me.
Menus are fine for me, they aren't fantastic but I find them pretty easy to use. Maybe it's because I'm used to Oly menus.
AF is fine - it's not lightning quick but it's about the same or maybe slightly quicker than the canon g10/g11 and more functional IMO. I set it to center point AF, and in low contrast light, look for a point of contrast to get focus on, then recompose and click. Same as my 5d, and it works very very well. The whole AF performance problems people have are because they're overcomplicating things. Just set it to center point and recompose. It seriously works great. Oh, and it's not going to focus on a blank wall or dark patch either, it needs contrast to work well.
I got the 17mm kit - the OVF is great - I'm going to be using that for street work and it makes the camera feel very intuitive. The 17mm pancake is nice as well - tiny, well built and good optical quality. Considering it's price, it's pretty damn solid. Has a bit of chromatic aberration towards the edges but I've already set Adobe lightroom 3b to default correct for this. I have no problems using the lens wide open, even when I require corner sharpness.
Overall I'm pretty damn happy with it. Pending the rest of the weeks testing, I'm seriously considering taking it to Japan for 2.5 weeks on Monday week instead of my 5d. It would make traveling around much easier for me.
gavinlg
Veteran
Oh, and the reason I didn't buy the GF1 is because I don't like Panasonic menus or external controls or actual image output. Purely subjective of course, I'm sure it's a great camera, but the PEN is more of a special camera - like it almost has soul or something. The GF1 is just another little black box.
IMO
IMO
PCB_RF
Established
I've had a G1 for a month or two and have just started playing with an EP1. I've handled a GF1 and find the controls very similar to the G1, but I apologize if any of my G1 observations don't apply to the GF1. My take, my opinion, please don't take any of this personally, is:
IQ: EP1 jpg has better high ISO and looks better, but G1 IQ is fine for me
Handling: G1/GF1 handles very well, EP1 handling annoys me
Outdoors/Bright Light: I need EVF, either G1/GH1/GF1/EP2 OK here
AF: G1/GF1 definitely faster, EP1 slower in comparision, not so bad by itself
EP1 handling annoyances [G1/GF1 advantages]:
A. MF legacy lens focus aid magnification only available when "Info" display is set to green focus box: if set to something else, you may have to cycle through as many as 4 screens before you get back to the focus box and can hit the "OK" button to magnify the screen [G1/GF1: same two-button push to magnify, regardless of screen display]
B. Green focus box Info display locks ISO/Etc controls: in this Info mode, pushing ISO/Etc controls just moves the green box around the screen. You have to change the Info display to unlock the control. I monkey with ISO a lot, so this is a major annoyance [G1/GF1: ISO button is separate/dedicated, always changes ISO regardless of display]
With so many EP1 displays/functions interdependent, I'm forever hitting buttons to switch between two oft-used functions. I found myself constantly doing this:
1. Push OK to magnify screen, oops, wrong Info mode
2. Push OK button again once or twice to return to Info mode
3. Push Info button 2-5 times to get green box
4. Push OK to get magnified image
[that could be 6-7 button pushes to get the image magnified]
5. Push OK to return to normal view
6. Push ISO to change ISO: oops, only moves green box
7. Curse loudly
8. Push Info TWICE to lose green box (ISO unavailable at first push)
9. Push ISO to bring up ISO display
10. Change ISO
11. Decide to magnify screen, hit OK, won't magnify, not in green box mode
12. Curse again, louder
13. Push OK once or twice to return to Info mode
14. Push Info button 4 or 5 times to get green box
15. Etc, etc, etc
The EP1 always has 5 or 6 button pushes between focus mag and ISO. There are no button pushes between them on the G1/GF1. If you never need to toggle between focus mag and ISO/WB/AF/Burst, no problem. If you do, get ready to push lots of buttons.
I haven't plumbed the depths of the EP1, so there may be some shortcut settings that would minimize the button pushing?
Don't plan to give up the EP1, still fun to use in less-demanding situations (AF & Auto ISO, basic snapshooting).
Sorry for all the drivel.
IQ: EP1 jpg has better high ISO and looks better, but G1 IQ is fine for me
Handling: G1/GF1 handles very well, EP1 handling annoys me
Outdoors/Bright Light: I need EVF, either G1/GH1/GF1/EP2 OK here
AF: G1/GF1 definitely faster, EP1 slower in comparision, not so bad by itself
EP1 handling annoyances [G1/GF1 advantages]:
A. MF legacy lens focus aid magnification only available when "Info" display is set to green focus box: if set to something else, you may have to cycle through as many as 4 screens before you get back to the focus box and can hit the "OK" button to magnify the screen [G1/GF1: same two-button push to magnify, regardless of screen display]
B. Green focus box Info display locks ISO/Etc controls: in this Info mode, pushing ISO/Etc controls just moves the green box around the screen. You have to change the Info display to unlock the control. I monkey with ISO a lot, so this is a major annoyance [G1/GF1: ISO button is separate/dedicated, always changes ISO regardless of display]
With so many EP1 displays/functions interdependent, I'm forever hitting buttons to switch between two oft-used functions. I found myself constantly doing this:
1. Push OK to magnify screen, oops, wrong Info mode
2. Push OK button again once or twice to return to Info mode
3. Push Info button 2-5 times to get green box
4. Push OK to get magnified image
[that could be 6-7 button pushes to get the image magnified]
5. Push OK to return to normal view
6. Push ISO to change ISO: oops, only moves green box
7. Curse loudly
8. Push Info TWICE to lose green box (ISO unavailable at first push)
9. Push ISO to bring up ISO display
10. Change ISO
11. Decide to magnify screen, hit OK, won't magnify, not in green box mode
12. Curse again, louder
13. Push OK once or twice to return to Info mode
14. Push Info button 4 or 5 times to get green box
15. Etc, etc, etc
The EP1 always has 5 or 6 button pushes between focus mag and ISO. There are no button pushes between them on the G1/GF1. If you never need to toggle between focus mag and ISO/WB/AF/Burst, no problem. If you do, get ready to push lots of buttons.
I haven't plumbed the depths of the EP1, so there may be some shortcut settings that would minimize the button pushing?
Don't plan to give up the EP1, still fun to use in less-demanding situations (AF & Auto ISO, basic snapshooting).
Sorry for all the drivel.
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
TheURge Pen 1 still does it for me. Once you set up the camera the way you think, it becomes very intuitive. Even the MF situation is resolved in the menu setup.
I am using the 17 and sometimes, rarely, the 14/42.
I was using the OVF but not to much anymore. It's easier to blend in to the environment without the finder.
The high ISO is very good and to my eyes, better than the GF1 by just maybe 1 stop.
The Pen is very elegant. The GF1 is more, bear with me, military feeling.
That's not a bad thing but I prefer the elegance of the Pen.
They are both food cameras and capable of producing excellent images.
At that point, it's up to the shooter.....
I am using the 17 and sometimes, rarely, the 14/42.
I was using the OVF but not to much anymore. It's easier to blend in to the environment without the finder.
The high ISO is very good and to my eyes, better than the GF1 by just maybe 1 stop.
The Pen is very elegant. The GF1 is more, bear with me, military feeling.
That's not a bad thing but I prefer the elegance of the Pen.
They are both food cameras and capable of producing excellent images.
At that point, it's up to the shooter.....
palker
Established
ha ha - the opposite
ha ha - the opposite
is why i bought the GF1 rather than the cheaper EP-1 .. apart from the soul jobbie .. sorry but its a camera after all.
The menus - knowing neither the Panny or the Oly before were easier on the Panny. The 20 mm lens is a treat. Auto focus is quick. I only use RAW and get impressive results. There are quick routes to move the focus point, manual focus zoom size and point - although I do not bother sometimes.
BUT underlying the two cameras is an element of enjoyment - simple unabashed fun.
ha ha - the opposite
Oh, and the reason I didn't buy the GF1 is because I don't like Panasonic menus or external controls or actual image output. Purely subjective of course, I'm sure it's a great camera, but the PEN is more of a special camera - like it almost has soul or something. The GF1 is just another little black box.
IMO
is why i bought the GF1 rather than the cheaper EP-1 .. apart from the soul jobbie .. sorry but its a camera after all.
The menus - knowing neither the Panny or the Oly before were easier on the Panny. The 20 mm lens is a treat. Auto focus is quick. I only use RAW and get impressive results. There are quick routes to move the focus point, manual focus zoom size and point - although I do not bother sometimes.
BUT underlying the two cameras is an element of enjoyment - simple unabashed fun.
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