Opinions on the J-3/J-12 and some other FSU questions

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PaulRicciardi

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Hey guys, I've been lurking around the forums for quite some time but never joined until a few days ago. I've recently gotten into shooting with rangefinders and am finding that I really love them. Currently I'm shooting with an Oly 35 RC and an Aires 35-III but am looking for an interchangeable lens RF. I do a lot of night shooting and low light shooting and so I also need a faster lens than either of those two RF's have. Thus, here I am in the FSU forum.

I'm really attracted to the FSU cameras, they are every bit as classic looking as Leicas etc and, from what I've heard perform pretty well too. Plus the idea of a decent rangefinder that can take a few knocks appeals to me. There is something charming about these FSU cameras that really grabs me and says "use me."

I can't say that I feel that same draw to the Leica's...the appeal there is more to the brand and the cameras are so "jewel like" and I am so poor that being able to really use one of those cameras kind of scares me. I'm not saying that I abuse my gear, I'm pretty nice to it, but I certainly don't pamper it either.

Anyways, I've read through the sticky post at the top of the forum and I've done some reading online but still have a few questions. How good is the J-3? Am I better off with a J-8 for far less money? I realize that I'll probably end up with both of them but does the J-3 vignette badly or lose its edge sharpness terribly? I'm mostly looking for a lens for low light shooting. As far as FSU goes this seems to be the low light lens but just wondering about the quality.

Also, opinions on the J-3 would be nice too. You need an external finder for any lens other than a 50mm on these cameras right? Any recommendations there?

As far as cameras go I'm drawn towards the Zorkis, in particular the 4. No reason why, just feels right. Any opinions there?

Thanks for the help guys, I look forward to becoming a regular here on the forums, I'm really wishing I had picked up a RF sooner.
 
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I'd say the Zorki-4 is a bit big, and the wind-knob is not well thought out as it's too close to the top of the r/f housing. If you go for a 4, look at the 4K too - that one has a 'normal' lever wind instead of the knob.

I prefer the Fed-2. It has a more contrasty viewfinder and r/f, which makes it easier for me at least. The later models with the mushroom wind-knob and 'modern' shutter speeds can be very very good to use, assuming you don't get one that has spent the last forty years in a damp shed of course.

In my opinion (and everyone here has a different one of those ;o) the original Zorkis and FEDs, the really little Barnack-style versions, are also worth a good look too.
 
PaulRicciardi said:
I can't say that I feel that same draw to the Leica's...the appeal there is more to the brand and the cameras are so "jewel like" and I am so poor that being able to really use one of those cameras kind of scares me. I'm not saying that I abuse my gear, I'm pretty nice to it, but I certainly don't pamper it either.
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FSU's are a great starting point, Paul, but give this blurb some thought: for about 50-75% more than you invest in an FSU body you can pick up a user LTM body. Go with the J3 to keep your low-light glass costs low. I feel a serviced screw mount Leica will be a better investment in durability. I really think you've got a better shot at keeping an LTM shooting without problems WAY longer than an FSU. The quality will show through in the long run.

I'm retired and have very low income, but my II and III have been both a source of pride as well as daily companions that have never let me down.
 
MartinP said:
I'd say the Zorki-4 is a bit big, and the wind-knob is not well thought out as it's too close to the top of the r/f housing. If you go for a 4, look at the 4K too - that one has a 'normal' lever wind instead of the knob.

I prefer the Fed-2. It has a more contrasty viewfinder and r/f, which makes it easier for me at least. The later models with the mushroom wind-knob and 'modern' shutter speeds can be very very good to use, assuming you don't get one that has spent the last forty years in a damp shed of course.

In my opinion (and everyone here has a different one of those ;o) the original Zorkis and FEDs, the really little Barnack-style versions, are also worth a good look too.
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I didn't realize the Zorki 4 had no wind-on lever, that puts the 4 out of the race and some of the Fed's as well. I really need that lever.

Brian-the 3m looks interesting but once again no lever.
Looks like it's a Zorki 4k, 5, or 6, or a Fed 3L. I realize that other cameras have wind levers now that I've done some more reading but I would prefer something meter-less. No point in buying a camera with a Selenium meter since it's going to be dead or on its last legs.

I've been looking through a bunch of J-3 pictures, a lot of them are really soft. As in almost soft focus. Seems like that is common wide open on a J3. I realize a lens isn't going to be critically sharp at its max aperture but I've shot with plenty of fast glass that is still reasonable sharp at its focus point.

Keep the examples and opinions coming you guys are helping a lot and giving me some more stuff to read. Though, I guess there's only one way to find out of the J-3 will work for me....😀

Thanks
Paul
 
jolefler said:
FSU's are a great starting point, Paul, but give this blurb some thought: for about 50-75% more than you invest in an FSU body you can pick up a user LTM body. Go with the J3 to keep your low-light glass costs low. I feel a serviced screw mount Leica will be a better investment in durability. I really think you've got a better shot at keeping an LTM shooting without problems WAY longer than an FSU. The quality will show through in the long run.

I'm retired and have very low income, but my II and III have been both a source of pride as well as daily companions that have never let me down.
Click to expand...

Well the income is an issue now but won't be in too long. I'll probably have enough extra money come mid summer to invest in a Voigtlander Bessa and a CV lens however til then I would love an interchangeable lens RF. I'm a college student and tuition comes before a new camera but I can splurge a little bit on a FSU to keep me satiated. Plus it's always good to have a backup.

A LTM would be nice, they are classic and mechanical wonders. As a matter of fact I've considered a IIIc many times however the lack of wind lever drives me away. I am getting into street shooting a lot and am particularly interested in social documentary. I plan on pursuing a career in photojournalism specializing in shooting in places where social injustices are occurring and thus a RF is preferable for the discretion it provides. Not shooting with an auto-everything DSLR is fine. I own one of those and I use it for commercial work I do but it is not suited to the sort of PJ work I want to do and the street shooting I am already doing. I can shoot fully manual and manual focus-I prefer it. But I still need some speed.
 
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If you have to have lever-wind, consider the Fed-3. I think it's a very under-rated FSU body. The only downside, at least in my mind, is the lack of strap lugs, but it's easy enough to convert the ever-ready case to a perfectly good half case.

I think the J-3 is a great lens. The problem for most people is finding one that performs as designed. Some may have left the factory in less than perfect shape, and many others seem to have been tinkered with (often badly) over the years. Unless you really need the extra stop, you can save some money and still get great images with the Jupiter-8.

Most people seem to love the Jupiter-12. I prefer the CV Skopar 35mm f/2.5, but that's just one man's opinion. For anything other than 50mm lenses, you'll need an external finder. The FSU dedicated finders are good, and people rave about the new Voigtlander finders. Personally, I use the FSU turret finder exclusively and love it.
 
Hi, and welcome to the wonderful land of FSU RFs, comrade.

For low light shooting, with fast lens - I'd recommend a Kiev. OK, it's got knob advance, but it's got a very wide RF base (precise focus wide open) and the Helios 103 is only 1/2 stop slower, but much sharper across the frame. It's because of different optical design.

If you insist on LTM, then get a Zorki-6. It's got wide RF base and bright viewfinder. Another option is Zorki-4. Its advantage is the slow speeds, but the VF is so big you don't see the edges and framing is a bit hit or miss. Z-6 is IMO better in this regard, but the slowest speed is 1/30.

FEDs are IMO not so good for very low light (like clubs or pubs), because although the RF is contrasty, the VF is dim.
 
I really like my J-3 and use it more often than j-8. I think its a sharper lens. obviously somewhat soft wide open, but i think it beats j-8 at 2.0. just my 2 cents.

I use it on Bessa-R or fed 2.
 
To me using a crank is too much like using an SLR and more important with these old FSU`s there is a real need to feel any inconsistancy or change of normal resistance in the shutter cocking .
With a wind knob it is clearly a more sensitive method to recognize when something is wrong with the film advance and shutter cocking and far less prone to doing more damage than when cranking the geared lever with a strong thumb.
Plus , isn`t knob turning part of this whole FSU experience?
John
 
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As far as my experience with FSU cameras goes, the smoothest advance is that of FED-2 and FED-3 (and 4 and 5). But the FED-2 feels better. Next would be Kiev, then Zorki 4 (knob placed too close to the "step" on the body) and then Zorki 6 (the return spring of the lever is too strong and there is no stand-off position).

But even though I put Z-6 on the last place, if would be great body to go with the J-3 to shoot some unavailable-light 😉 The bright finder and wide RF base are great.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: I think I've been too critical to the Z-6. Now that I've got it in my hands it's not that difficult to advance. In fact I'd put it ahead of the Kiev...
 
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Welcome to the forum, Paul. Simplest solution: buy one of each 😀

I started with a Zorki 1 and ended (?) up with at least one of the FEDs and Zorkis and a couple of Kievs and Zenits. Just think of it as inevitable and accept...

As for suggestions, the FED 3b is a very under-rated and cheap camera if you need to have a lever-wind. The only thing lacking is the strap-lugs, which may or may not be important to you.
 
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Spyderman said:
Zorki 6 (the return spring of the lever is too strong and there is no stand-off position).
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Interesting. I have a Zorki 6 that also has an industrial-strength return-spring. I wonder if they upped it from the one on the Zorki 5 or whether it's just what was lying around for spring-steel! My Zorki 5 is a lot lighter in spring tension, which makes it far nicer to wind.
 
A GOOD J-3 is hard to beat - but finding a good one can take some time and frustration. I had to buy three plus a REAL vintage Zeiss Sonnar 1.5 in LTM before getting a J-3 that performs INCREDIBLY. It's one of the KMZ ones from the early fifties. All-in-all cost about $150 after selling off the duds at a loss.

I even bought a new Zeiss 50mm Sonnar-C and shot it alongside my KMZ J-3. I kept the J-3 and sold the expensive modern lens because I couldn't see any real difference between the two.

It's also a quite compact (short) lens.
 
Spyderman said:
EDIT: I think I've been too critical to the Z-6. Now that I've got it in my hands it's not that difficult to advance. In fact I'd put it ahead of the Kiev...
Click to expand...


Zorki-6 (and Zorki-5) will wind better and faster if the winding stroke is split into two. Or even more short strokes.

Shorter and easier strokes, plus more positive shutter cocking. A winding stroke that falls just short of full cocking may cause the shutter to run erratically, or even not open at all during traverse. Easy on the thumb too. There's no need for that tiny digit to span the rather wide arc needed by most FSU lever winds to achieve full film advancing/shutter cocking.

And while doing the double stroking bit, pretend that it's really a DS Leica M3 in the hands, instead of a Zorki! 😀

Jay
 
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The myth that a knob-rewind camera has to involve any actual knob turning has been debunked here before. A good CLA'd knob can be zipped with the side of the finger, like a rip cord, faster than many lever winds. Jus' sayin.'
 
I've got 3 lever-wind FSUs - a Z6, a Z4K and a FED 3. Of the three, I don't like the feel of the Z4K wind - it just doesn't have the solid feel of the other two. And of the other two, I prefer the feel of the FED wind - it's just a bit smoother than the Z6, and the shutter release is also smoother (the release of my Z6 feels like it's holding back a really powerful spring). But having said that, I like both of them. But for shooting, a couple of my knob-wind FSUs get more use, with a FED 2 probably being my overall favourite (but then, the Z3M is the most beautiful, and it does feel nice and smooth (and I really do like the feel of the FED 3, even if it looks a bit big)). Did that help? I expect not 😉
 
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