bmattock
Veteran
langdon auger said:
Very nice, and thank you! I've actually heard that before about the Fuji F10. Seems to have a small cult following - a good sign, IMHO.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
OT: A digital consistent with the RF spirit
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Very nice, and thank you! I've actually heard that before about the Fuji F10. Seems to have a small cult following - a good sign, IMHO.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
einolu
Well-known
langdon auger said:
Nice link, thanks!
My current digital is a Minolta Dimage Xt, great little camera that is very simple to you, though it doesnt allow for any real manual control, its still fun and easy to use.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Gentleman, you really should try the Panasonic DMC LX1. It is truly a street shooters dream - pocketable, quiet, no shutter lag, and shoots raw. As with any piece of equipment, nothing is perfect. There are and will always be trade-offs and compromises. Still, it doesn't stop us from dreaming.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
jaapv said:
Sorry, I should have clarified - interchangeable lenses 🙂
Dave
JoeFriday
Agent Provacateur
I was all set to buy a Fuji F11 if/when it becomes available in the US.. all the reviews I read about it raved on the low-light capabilities.. ISO settings as high as 800 with low noise (even higher with tolerable, but noticeable noise).. that's unheard of with most digicams
but for me it still comes down to overall image quality.. the Fuji is good, but not great.. images are never sharp compared to anything I get with decent RF glass.. they also tend to be flat-looking.. perhaps that's a factor with the F10 not having manual controls, thus you can't create a shallow DOF to isolate your subject.. the F11 might be better
eventually I ruled out the Fuji (both F10 and F11).. I'm currently looking at the brand new Sony DSC-N1.. I never would have thought I'd be interested in a Sony camera.. but it claims to have Zeiss glass, manual controls, 8MP sensor, is very fast focusing and photo cycling, and is very pocketable.. however, it doesn't have the viewfinder that Bill wants.. I agree that it would be a very good thing to have, but I can sacrifice that on a pocket camera
one very interesting thing about the Sony is that the LCD is touch-sensitive.. in fact, you can click on the LCD to select exactly where you want the camera to focus and meter
but for me it still comes down to overall image quality.. the Fuji is good, but not great.. images are never sharp compared to anything I get with decent RF glass.. they also tend to be flat-looking.. perhaps that's a factor with the F10 not having manual controls, thus you can't create a shallow DOF to isolate your subject.. the F11 might be better
eventually I ruled out the Fuji (both F10 and F11).. I'm currently looking at the brand new Sony DSC-N1.. I never would have thought I'd be interested in a Sony camera.. but it claims to have Zeiss glass, manual controls, 8MP sensor, is very fast focusing and photo cycling, and is very pocketable.. however, it doesn't have the viewfinder that Bill wants.. I agree that it would be a very good thing to have, but I can sacrifice that on a pocket camera
one very interesting thing about the Sony is that the LCD is touch-sensitive.. in fact, you can click on the LCD to select exactly where you want the camera to focus and meter
childers-jk
Over/under never perfect
I have to say Bill has hit the nail on the head for me. I came to rangefinders simply because I wanted a quality picture w/o all the auto this and auto that!!! I still use a digial, I don't have a small one, but the one thing I really hate about the newer cameras is the automation. I perfer Canon SLR's so the perfect one for me would be the F-1 with a full sized sensor and 8 MP resolution.
Great thread btw.
Great thread btw.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
bmattock said:
It is a great little camera I can testify, especially if one is waiting for the digital M.
In our parts prices are dropping at the moment. I have seen them for 1000 Euro already.
gns
Well-known
Jaap,
I use mine all the time. If I could only trade the zoom lens for fixed + good optical viewfinder, that is all I would want. Ok, and maybe a bigger sensor.
Gary
I use mine all the time. If I could only trade the zoom lens for fixed + good optical viewfinder, that is all I would want. Ok, and maybe a bigger sensor.
Gary
GeneW
Veteran
daveozzz said:
I would think the Epson RD1 provides the prototype you're looking for. But you want more pixels? The Leica Digital M should provide that. If only these cameras were in my budget range!
Gene
daveozzz
Established
Yes too few MPs on a RD1. A leica digital M ould do nicely thank you very much... 10 MP at 1.3x crop factor is very respectable - except I bet I couldn't afford one in a million years!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
gns said:
You should post some in your Gallery, Gary 😉
paulfitz
Established
Why no LCD?
For me, so my subject CANNOT immediately see what I just shot. When I shoot digital pics of my girlfriend, she always runs up immediately after I take the shot and wants to see it. This disrupts the entire shooting, posing and relaxing cycle.
Whenever I shoot film, she always says the film cameras make her look prettier. That's because she relaxes and doesn't worry about what she looks like. So now I shoot all the serious pics with a film camera, and have a P&S just to satisfy that "I have to see it now!" urge.
I do agree with the comments about histogram and some of the other controls, since digital doesn't have the range for me.
Maybe they could hide it under an opening back, so it looks like a film camera, then I could always decline saying - "I have to process it first!"
Maybe others have this same phenomena of "Let me see, let me see"
For me, so my subject CANNOT immediately see what I just shot. When I shoot digital pics of my girlfriend, she always runs up immediately after I take the shot and wants to see it. This disrupts the entire shooting, posing and relaxing cycle.
Whenever I shoot film, she always says the film cameras make her look prettier. That's because she relaxes and doesn't worry about what she looks like. So now I shoot all the serious pics with a film camera, and have a P&S just to satisfy that "I have to see it now!" urge.
I do agree with the comments about histogram and some of the other controls, since digital doesn't have the range for me.
Maybe they could hide it under an opening back, so it looks like a film camera, then I could always decline saying - "I have to process it first!"
Maybe others have this same phenomena of "Let me see, let me see"
JoeFriday
Agent Provacateur
yep.. that happens mostly when I'm shooting my nieces.. they see the photo being taken and immediately rush over to see how they look.. which means you get one chance at a good shot
jorisbens
rff: penguins know why
bmattock said:
How is the focus point identification with M42 lenses? Is it accurate? Is it usefull?
Joris
GeneW
Veteran
I like digitals that feature an LCD screen that can be folded in so it's not visible. Because of the chimping factor, I've been known to fold in the screen and lie: "this is a film camera, sorry" -- or, as I prefer to call it, "creative misinformation"
Gene
Gene
photogdave
Shops local
Hate to say it everyone, but the camera we're all looking for is not likely to materialize. The RD-1 and M digital will be the closest we'll probably see but I doubt either will ever be terribly affordable. 🙁
It's simple economics and there's just not enough market. That's why Panasonic discontinued the LC1. IT was 95% identical to the Digilux 2 and I'm sure it outsold the Leica by a huge margine as it was 1/3 to 1/2 the price, but Panasonic killed it anyway because it's overall sales were low compared to everything else.
DSLRs are king and are killing RF-like digicams like the Canon G and Olympus C cameras in the marketplace. Olympus discontinued their whole line of digicams to concentrate on DSLR.
A completely manual, well-built, interchangeable lens compact camera with no bells and whistles wouldn't even generate enough sales to justify the R&D!
Personally, I wouldn't want to alter my RF experience by changing to digital capture. Film will always be around in my lifetime and if I need to do something digitally, I'll reach for a Canon DSLR because chances are the job will call for some sort of AF/AE/LCD stuff anyway. And my trusty Pentax digicam is great for fun snaps and underwater movie clips! 😎
I don't mean to poo-poo the RD-1 or whatever Leica is bringing out. I've shot with the RD-1 and enjoyed it - just can't afford it!
It's simple economics and there's just not enough market. That's why Panasonic discontinued the LC1. IT was 95% identical to the Digilux 2 and I'm sure it outsold the Leica by a huge margine as it was 1/3 to 1/2 the price, but Panasonic killed it anyway because it's overall sales were low compared to everything else.
DSLRs are king and are killing RF-like digicams like the Canon G and Olympus C cameras in the marketplace. Olympus discontinued their whole line of digicams to concentrate on DSLR.
A completely manual, well-built, interchangeable lens compact camera with no bells and whistles wouldn't even generate enough sales to justify the R&D!
Personally, I wouldn't want to alter my RF experience by changing to digital capture. Film will always be around in my lifetime and if I need to do something digitally, I'll reach for a Canon DSLR because chances are the job will call for some sort of AF/AE/LCD stuff anyway. And my trusty Pentax digicam is great for fun snaps and underwater movie clips! 😎
I don't mean to poo-poo the RD-1 or whatever Leica is bringing out. I've shot with the RD-1 and enjoyed it - just can't afford it!
photogdave
Shops local
There are better pocket cameras out there! The Sony doesn't have a "real" Zeiss lens (But I'm sure you already know that!), it's just a licensing agreement. And 8 PM jammed into that little sensor si just going to give you more noise, not better image quality. Don't buy into the MP myth!
Small lenses on these cameras can't resolve enough detail to keep up with the sensor in terms of ultimate print size - which is the only benefit of more pixels (aside from cropping). All you really need is 5-6 MP. I highly recommend the Pentax WP series cuz you can get them wet!
Small lenses on these cameras can't resolve enough detail to keep up with the sensor in terms of ultimate print size - which is the only benefit of more pixels (aside from cropping). All you really need is 5-6 MP. I highly recommend the Pentax WP series cuz you can get them wet!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
photogdave said:
The price difference is about 250$, and most owners I know opted for the Leica.
Having said that these camera's will, as you say, never sell in huge numbers and I'm sure the Panasonic marketing-guys knew that before they introduced the camera. I think the boot is on the other foot and they never expected Leica to sell a single one because of the price difference. The Leica is being price-dumped as well at the moment. Maybe the digital M is closer than we think *he said with a hopeful smirk on the face*
photogdave
Shops local
I agree. I was surprised how many people bought the Leica. Especially as when they first appeared on the Canadian market the Leica was about $2500 and the Panasonic $1900!
K
Kin Lau
Guest
How many people can actually tell the difference btwn 6mp & 8mp?
I have a 6mp 300D & a 8mp 350D....and I can rarely see any difference.
I have a 6mp 300D & a 8mp 350D....and I can rarely see any difference.
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