OT: Looking for TLR - any suggestions

[lido]

Hello,

Sorry to bring up the subject of TLR on RF based forum, but I've seen a lot of people talk about them. After looking through different posts here praising big negatives, I'd like to give it a try.

While looking on evil site, I found whole bunch of Rolleicords as well as Yashikas. Any of you have any experience with these, what would you recommend to someone on a tight budget?

Any input is appreciated.

 

[GeroV]

I have a rolleiflex 3.5 TLR which I like very much. The Rolleicord is a less expensive version of the Rolleiflex, and I don't have experience with one.

The picture quality from the 120 format is awesome, as is looking down into a ground glass screen and having your subject snap into focus in what looks like 3D.

Gero

 

[bmattock]

Doug,

I think you would do well with either a Rolleicord or a Yashica. I have no experience with the Rolleicords, but I do have a Yashica 635, which I've had since high school. I love it, and recently used it to take portrait photos of my wife in B&W - fantastic portrait lens. If you get a Yashica, I'd advise (if you're on a tight budget as you say) to avoid the Yashica 124 and 124G, because they are getting quite expensive, but try to get a model with the Yashinon instead of the Yashikor lens. The Yashinon is a 4-element Tessar design, and reports are it is quite sharp. I like my Yashikor 3-element lens - not as sharp, which is actually better for portraits, I think.

All TLR's tend to benefit from the use of a square lens hood, and many of them used a "Bay 1" type filter/hood attachment. Lots of them available on eBoy, just do some research and find out which Bay size your new TLR uses, and get a lens hood or a Bay-to-Series 5 adapter with a lens hood built in - both work fine.

You might also consider looking at the well-regarded Minolta Autocord series TLRs, although again, I have no direct experience with those, I am simply repeating what I have heard.

Some folks have difficulty adjusting to the fact that you see everything reversed left-right (because there is no pentaprism, just a mirror). But still easier to use than a LF with the ground-glass where everything is upside down AND backwards!

I have heard also to avoid the self-timer on TLR's. If they freeze, the shutter will require an overhaul before you can use the camera again. Don't know how true that is, but I tend not to use the self-timer on mine. I have done so recently, and it worked. But I crossed my fingers.

Some good info on the Yashica's is available here:

http://www.williamsphotographic.com/yashica.html

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[pshinkaw]

I've got several Yashicas along with a Flexaret, Diacord, Aires Automat, Rolleicord and 'Flex. But the one I use most is my Mamiya C330/C33 outfit. Although it is very cost effective for a medium format outfit, it is clearly not a budget set-up either.

If you are shopping on e-Bay, I recommend the Rolleicord because it is mechanically simpler than the 'Flex. Thus there are fewer things to not function. Ergo less maintenance and lower cost. The 'Cord typically came with Tessars and Xenars. Both excellent lenses and these lenses were also supplied on some of the 'Flexes.

While the Rolleiflex and Rolleicord are getting somewhat pricey on e-Bay, I think the Yashica 124G is way over-priced in a reasonably operating condition. Overall the best buys considering their condition and re-sale value seem to be the 'Cords.

-Paul

 

[KoNickon]

Bill's advice about the Yashica lenses is good. Another thing I'd point out, and others may disagree, is that either of the Yashicamat 124 models has a meter built in (takes the 625 mercury batteries but there are work-arounds for that). It's a convenience if you don't have, or don't want to bring with you, a hand-held meter.

The Rolleicords are very well made, as you'd expect. They are knob wind, rather than the crank that their big brother Rolleiflexes and the Yashicamats have. Not a problem. What may be more of an issue is that the 'cords have an unusual shutter mechanism -- there's a little lever below the lens that you push to the right (as you hold the camera) to charge the shutter, and pull to the left to trip the shutter. Not so convenient, and if you're shooting at slow shutter speeds, it can be tricky to hold the camera steady.

I'd look for one of the later Rolleicords -- V, Va and Vb. The last two tend to be pricey, but the V is still a good deal, I think. The IV or III would be my next choice, in that order.

Other excellent alternatives are the Minolta Autocord and (a sleeper) the Ricoh Diacord, both with Tessar-type lenses also, and very well built. I'd avoid the Ricohflex, which is not as well made and has a three element lens.

There is a lot of information on these cameras on the 'net -- do some Googling. (Or contact me and I can point you in the right direction.)

 

[caspert79]

I would recommend a Rolleicord. Make shure you get one of the later models (called Vb). These later models have much brighter focusing glass than the older models.
The camera is simple, straightforward and of high quality.

 

[lubitel]

For a very tight budget, just for trying out may I suggest a Lubitel 166? 20 to 30 dollars should get you one. Lens Industar with 75mm/4.5

 

[physiognomy]

Hey Doug,

I have a Rolleicord Va and love it! The latter 'cords have a great 75mm f3.5 Schneider Xenar (Paul, I don't think there were any 'cords with a Tessar... the earlier ones have three element Triotars) ... I would suggest if you are interested in a 'cord that you look for the latter ones (Va & Vb) because the focus knob is on the left side of the camera (when the camera is facing away from you)... I think this is a better placement compared to the earlier ones where it was on the right. Also, with the Va & Vb there are masks available for 12-16-24 capability on 120 film... Another cool feature I like about the Va is the adjustable EVS coupling. I guess you could say it's sort of like mechanical aperture or shutter priority. Pretty amazing for a late '50s camera! That said, the earlier 'cord III, IV and V still have the Xenar lens and a top shutter speed of 500, PLUS they seem to be a LOT cheaper. The 'cord Vb in particluar seems to be a bit of a Rollei collector's pet, so I would search for a good Va... I lucked out and picked mine up for ~ $100 (2 yrs ago) ...

Here are some useful links:

John's Rolleicord Page

Global Rollei Club

I hope that was helpful!

Peter

 

[kaiyen]

I have a yashicamat 124. If you get one of those, your choice is either like $50 plus a $85 CLA, or $125 or so services. Just to give you a ballpark.

allan

 

[djon]

Don't resist the urge to divert a bigger chunk of your budget: get a RolleiFLEX instead of these lesser pretenders. The common "T" models with 3.5 Xenar were magnificent objects of beauty, optically wonderful, and very rugged.

Rollei's Proxar close-up lenses are VERY good for tight portraits, though you need to be aware of depth of field issues. Filling a 6X6 frame with a full head, using a Proxar 1 or 2 (I forget) gave me my alltime favorite portrait. Damn, wish I still had that camera...I've let them go twice.

 

[lubitel]

here is an example shot with iso 3200:

 

[physiognomy]

(snip) .... What may be more of an issue is that the 'cords have an unusual shutter mechanism -- there's a little lever below the lens that you push to the right (as you hold the camera) to charge the shutter, and pull to the left to trip the shutter. Not so convenient, and if you're shooting at slow shutter speeds, it can be tricky to hold the camera steady.

Good point! I forgot about this... The Va & Vb can come with a little screw-in shutter release button, which I believe would also fit the IV & V (although I've never seen one attached)... Here is a link (click) that shows the Vb. To the right of the lever that cocks the shutter (directly below taking lens) is the shutter release button I'm talking about.

My Va has it and it makes shooting at slow speeds much, much easier. I had it out one day because I had used a cable release and realised pretty quickly how nice this feature is... If you get a Va or Vb without one you can pick them up occasionally, but as with most Rollei parts, they can be pricey...

Peter

 

[pshinkaw]

My 'Cord is a III with a Xenar lens. A mid 1950's model. Even in the 1970's when I bought it it was only $55. The sliding/rocking shutter release is actually less prone to camera shaking than the pushbutton model on other cameras since it requires only a flick of one finger. It has a conventional cable release socket. When you're switching cameras around, it's easy to forget for a moment just where the shutter release is. So, it's not the best action camera.

I found a late model Rolleiflex screen in a camera store parts bin many years ago for $1.50 and modified it with an Exacto knife to go into the 'Cord. The original screen was not a Fresnel and thus dim on the corners. I have also heard that the very bright Yashica screens can be modified to fit the 'Cord also.

People who use a handle mount flash prefer the focus knob on the right side since most flashes mount on the left (there are exceptions). Grab on the left, focus with the right hand. The Ricoh Diacord and Minolta Autocord focus on the front, close to where the 'Cord's shutter release is located.

In the US there was once a thriving camera repair school in Denver CO as well as the onetime headquarters for the Rollei importer. The best selection of over the counter used Rolleis outside of the East coast still seems to be in Denver camera stores. That's where my 'Flex came from. I've noticed that one of the shops in Denver repairs cameras from parts cameras. That's where I might have seen a Rolleicord with a Tessar lens. Functionally, the Tessar and Xenar are identical. Price-wise they are not.

Also, if you are new to TLR's keep in mind that most of them use waist-level finders. Everything is in reverse (left-right reversal) If you have young children, keep your SLR or rangefinder. Chasing after kids with a TLR is very challenging.

-Paul

 

[Rick Waldroup]

You might consider one of the Mamiya cameras. You can change lenses on them. I own a C330S, but there are more economical versions of the Mamiyas available on ebay. If you go that way, make sure the camera comes with one of the later black version of the lens instead of the earlier chrome version.

 

[cbass]

Tight budget? May I suggest the Ricohflex model III, IV, VI or VII? Even the three element lenses are good performers when stopped down past f/8. You'll have a more limited range of shutter speeds but the various Ricohflex models have proven to be pretty reliable. They are widely available for under $40 USD.

If you just want larger negatives you may also wish to try a 120/620 folding camera.

 

[fgianni]

Here are three reasons to buy the best TLR ever: Minolta Autocord

1) You focus using a lever under the lens, like you would do with many leica lenses on a rf, instead of the ankward knob to be used with your left hand that other TLRs provide, the meopta flexaret is actually the first TLR with a focusing lever, but the optics is inferior to the autocord.

2) The lens is sharper than any xenar or tessar, and very close to the planars/xenotars. (this may actually be due to point 3 below)

3) The Autocord mechanism ensures much better film flatness compared to any other TLR (including the much more expensive Rolleiflex).

 

[JMP]

Hey Doug,

I have a Rolleicord Va and love it! The latter 'cords have a great 75mm f3.5 Schneider Xenar (Paul, I don't think there were any 'cords with a Tessar... the earlier ones have three element Triotars) ... I would suggest if you are interested in a 'cord that you look for the latter ones (Va & Vb) because the focus knob is on the left side of the camera (when the camera is facing away from you)... I think this is a better placement compared to the earlier ones where it was on the right. Also, with the Va & Vb there are masks available for 12-16-24 capability on 120 film... Another cool feature I like about the Va is the adjustable EVS coupling. I guess you could say it's sort of like mechanical aperture or shutter priority. Pretty amazing for a late '50s camera! That said, the earlier 'cord III, IV and V still have the Xenar lens and a top shutter speed of 500, PLUS they seem to be a LOT cheaper. The 'cord Vb in particluar seems to be a bit of a Rollei collector's pet, so I would search for a good Va... I lucked out and picked mine up for ~ $100 (2 yrs ago) ...

Peter

Another vote for the Rolleicord. I have a Rolleicord III and agree that the Xenar lens is very nice. I will offer a counterpoint to Peter on the ergonomics issue, though this is purely dependent on working styles. The III has both the advance knob and the focus knob on the right side of the body, which I actually prefer. This allows the camera to be cradled securely in my left hand, which can also cock and release the shutter, while my right can advance and focus. The III does not have the EV coupling and is instead marked with shutter speed and aperture. For me, this is more comfortable, as it is the same as on the other cameras I use.

My only complaint is that the focusing screen is difficult to use in very dim light.

I got mine for $100 several months ago because the leather was starting to peel. You can probably get a good user III between $100 and $150. Check http://www.ritzcam.com/, which is where I got mine.

I too have heard good things about the Minolta Autocord, but it seems others have too, as the prices are increasing.

I also have a Lubitel 166 Universal. For the price (~$35), the Lubitel is a great way to see if you like TLRs. Everything about it is satisfactory (ergonomics, lens, viewfinder), but not impressive.

 

[ZeissFan]

One low-cost route is the Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex. Look for one with a Tessar lens. They aren't quite as nice to use, but the lenses are quite good.

 

[jon_flanders]

I'm very happy with my Ricoh Diacord. Got a great deal on it because the shutter was stuck. I think I paid $30 or thereabouts. Here's a sample from my gallery.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=17661&cat=4715

 

[JMP]

Just be aware that while the Mamiya C330 is a very professional camera, you pay for the ability to change lenses with a camera about 1/3 larger than the other TLRs mentioned. For me, the Rolleicord with a good strap is comfortable to walk around shooting with for the better part of a day, but it's close. I'm not sure I'd like to do the same with the C330.