t6un
Established
This wasn't a documentary. Many of the Hollywood's "true stories" take more liberties with facts - nobody cares. So did Capa's photographs. It's poety. And in this case it's just a bad piece of poetry.
Outrageous film created independently by Sentimental Filme / Saatchi & Saatchi agency
- Thread starter henri klein
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sanmich
Veteran
War and death to sell cameras?
What's not to like? 🙄
What's not to like? 🙄
Sparrow
Veteran
... well, with regard to the first part clearly some people do care as witnessed by this debate ... with regard to the second, sorry I don't follow
Thardy
Veteran
It was outrageous six months ago too.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128421
mfogiel
Veteran
@Addy101
You can have a look here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50135408n
I cannot quickly find reference to other material, I have seen on TEDX, but I am sure you will find interesting stuff if you look around. Also, Coursera is coming up with an interesting course:https://www.coursera.org/course/moralities, in case you might be interested to go deeper into this.
Coming back to my assessment: I feel much better, when I know Germans are governed by a liberal and democratic government, simply because they have evolved since the Bismarck era, into an extremely cohesive society, where obedience seems to be one of major virtues. This has been reinforced by totalitarian rule under Hitler, and in the East Germany, further perfected under the watchful eye of the Stasi. In such a society, it appears to be more difficult to break out on grounds of moral dissent. In my opinion, this has helped to perpetrate genocide during the WWII and created one of the most inhuman systems under Honecker.
Certainly, many more countries have acts of genocide on their conscience - the last massive one is devolving in front of our eyes in Syria, and probably Stalin's Russia trumped them all.
To get back to the ad: it is simply disrespectful and distasteful. Leica can pride itself for lots of things, but in my opinion should not associate it's name with imagery of war.
I am sure, they did not anticipate how their cameras were going to be deployed by Hitler's army during WWII, but I have seen enough of Leica photographs from that period to feel sick in the stomach when I think of it.
You can have a look here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50135408n
I cannot quickly find reference to other material, I have seen on TEDX, but I am sure you will find interesting stuff if you look around. Also, Coursera is coming up with an interesting course:https://www.coursera.org/course/moralities, in case you might be interested to go deeper into this.
Coming back to my assessment: I feel much better, when I know Germans are governed by a liberal and democratic government, simply because they have evolved since the Bismarck era, into an extremely cohesive society, where obedience seems to be one of major virtues. This has been reinforced by totalitarian rule under Hitler, and in the East Germany, further perfected under the watchful eye of the Stasi. In such a society, it appears to be more difficult to break out on grounds of moral dissent. In my opinion, this has helped to perpetrate genocide during the WWII and created one of the most inhuman systems under Honecker.
Certainly, many more countries have acts of genocide on their conscience - the last massive one is devolving in front of our eyes in Syria, and probably Stalin's Russia trumped them all.
To get back to the ad: it is simply disrespectful and distasteful. Leica can pride itself for lots of things, but in my opinion should not associate it's name with imagery of war.
I am sure, they did not anticipate how their cameras were going to be deployed by Hitler's army during WWII, but I have seen enough of Leica photographs from that period to feel sick in the stomach when I think of it.
MCTuomey
Veteran
So, to those who've found the ad objectionable, what have you done about your objection beyond taking a few seconds to express an opinion here? Sold any Leica gear? Initiated a boycott of Leica?
bgb
Well-known
No point in taking it out on Leica as I understand they didn't produce the film. Made by some bloke in Brazil and that in no way changed my opinion of Brazilian people.
Rodchenko
Olympian
Well, I shan't be buying any Leica gear for the foreseeable future.
This may have more to do with finance than outrage.
This may have more to do with finance than outrage.
t6un
Established
I drank myself into stupor and got my Leica stolen. Now I shoot Canon.*
I meant that art can play with raw facts, and it always does. For the sake of some (supposedly)higher truth.
*True story, it happened two years ago.
ktmrider
Well-known
Second Time
Second Time
I just watched the video a second time and thought it was pretty good. Some very well done black and white imagines. First time I watched it I thought it a bit over the top.
As for as war is concerned, it is what humans do. Don't like it but accept it as fact as there is war in all human societies including the most primitive. I was a US Marine for 11 years and proud that I never saw combat but was ready if so ordered.
Again, war is a part of our world. It would be great if it was not but I just do not think that will ever happen.
Second Time
I just watched the video a second time and thought it was pretty good. Some very well done black and white imagines. First time I watched it I thought it a bit over the top.
As for as war is concerned, it is what humans do. Don't like it but accept it as fact as there is war in all human societies including the most primitive. I was a US Marine for 11 years and proud that I never saw combat but was ready if so ordered.
Again, war is a part of our world. It would be great if it was not but I just do not think that will ever happen.
apostasiometritis
Established
To Addy 101
Please do not take it too personally, but precious few nations managed to do it so coldly and industrially. That alone sets it apart, especially in the context of the era.
As for the film, as many here said already, well done but ultimately not particularly tasteful.
Please do not take it too personally, but precious few nations managed to do it so coldly and industrially. That alone sets it apart, especially in the context of the era.
As for the film, as many here said already, well done but ultimately not particularly tasteful.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Anything that romanticises war leaves me pretty cold ... and let's face it Hollywood has been doing it for years!
This video may indeed be beautiful in an artistic sense but war isn't and if this is supposed to make me want an MM it didn't work. I wanted one more before I watched this misguided attempt at tugging at my heart/purse strings!
And I agree with Stephen .... the title of this thread is ridiculous!
This video may indeed be beautiful in an artistic sense but war isn't and if this is supposed to make me want an MM it didn't work. I wanted one more before I watched this misguided attempt at tugging at my heart/purse strings!
And I agree with Stephen .... the title of this thread is ridiculous!
willie_901
Veteran
I never owned anything made by Leica so there's nothing to sell. After the M8 release I initiated a futile, pointless one-person boycott of Leica which has not been lifted.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
You're right in one respect. It is not a documentary. It is a lie.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Black
Photographer.
Exactly. This whole ineffectual hoo har is over a forgettable work of fiction, albeit inspired by true events. Did this many people get bent out of shape over Saving Private Ryan or Inglorious Basterds? (Clue: box office says no). And, before we say that this ad is worse, because its trying to sell/promote a product, well, most people didn't watch SPR for free, or any other war related film/book/game for that matter.
In the words of the late Michael Winner - "Calm down dear, its only a commercial".
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
If Saving Private Ryan had culminated in a product placement for Mercedes-Benz automobiles, you might have a point.
Black
Photographer.
A product is a product is a product. The movie is the product in SPR's case. Always find when matters get down to semantics, then its much akin to desperation to prove an unnecessary point, instead of just being reasonable and admitting the fact.
No point on climbing atop of ones high horse about what is probably an amateur unauthorised advert that uses a romanticised version of someones story to sell a product then spending a few bucks to watch a movie that, morally, does exactly the same thing. There would be a whiff of hypocrisy of about that...
Addendum - after a few lazy seconds thinking about it, movies are in fact worse. With the ad, it was free to view and you have a choice to purchase the product it is promoting. With movies, you hand over the money before the opportunity to ascend the moral high ground.
So, yes, I think I do have to point, even sans the ugly German built car 😉
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
The marketing people that produced this video think I'm an idiot.
alistair.o
Well-known
I know that there are others who are troubled by lies in adverts and who believe that Leica ought to man up and disassociate themselves from that film.
The film may indeed be 'well made' and 'good' etc. but that is not the point. All references to war and such like are red herrings - the main point is truth after all that is why we make pictures isn't it?
As for the reference to poetry (who knows what's in your pipe!) but here is one of my favourite references:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Philip Jones Griffiths: I've got one of everything and five of most. There is no perfect camera. Some have great bodies but lousy lenses and vice-versa. All my life I've had this recurrent dream of discovering the perfect camera in some back street shop in Bangkok. Poets can scribble with charcoal on bits of paper * we, alas, are forced to fret over the deficiencies of our equipment. [/FONT]
The film may indeed be 'well made' and 'good' etc. but that is not the point. All references to war and such like are red herrings - the main point is truth after all that is why we make pictures isn't it?
As for the reference to poetry (who knows what's in your pipe!) but here is one of my favourite references:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Philip Jones Griffiths: I've got one of everything and five of most. There is no perfect camera. Some have great bodies but lousy lenses and vice-versa. All my life I've had this recurrent dream of discovering the perfect camera in some back street shop in Bangkok. Poets can scribble with charcoal on bits of paper * we, alas, are forced to fret over the deficiencies of our equipment. [/FONT]
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