Pack vs Bag

giellaleafapmu said:
How is this "anti-theft"? Where I live if someone wants what you have he comes with a bud and a knife, the bud stays at a distance with hands in pockets implying he has a gun and they ask you politely to give to them whatever you have, I don't see how this bag could change anything in this pattern.

GLF
Click to expand...

I think those were made to limit those who do use a slash and grab technique rather than forcing someone to give up their bag or risk injury.
 
In Melbourne, loads of people carry shoulder bags and backpacks, so you won't stand out with a bag. Some places like museums and art galleries ask you to leave backpacks in the cloak room, but they generally allow shoulder bags.

I've carried shoulder bags with increasingly heavy gear over the last several years, and I've found myself becoming more and more sensitive to the amount of gear in them. Nowadays I prefer to carry minimal gear in a shoulder bag, with a rangefinder and a couple of lenses, or a m43 camera and lenses being as much as I want to haul around. It's not about strength or endurance, but the constant pulling on one side of my body that is messing with my spine over time.

In January I was in Hong Kong, and I carried a Samsonite backpack with laptop section and very padded straps, and it was perfect to stash a Leica system and m43 system at the same time. The inside was just big enough for a Billingham Hadley Pro insert and all the gear slipped in with no problems, and sufficient room for a jacket, water bottle and whatever else.

The backpack was great for walking extended distances, and all future trips involving walks will definitely also involve the backpack. But what I gained in mobility, I lost in manoeverability. When you carry a shoulder bag, you can turn sideways and slip between people, cars, poles and other obstructions. Turn sideways with a backpack and you'll get jammed!

Now I'm looking for a slim, stylish backpack that can carry a rangefinder and a few lenses in a foam insert, and not look like a camera bag. But I do like bags like the Cote et Ciel messenger bag, which is very soft and low profile, but is padded enough to stash a camera or two.
 
Backpacks are not save for gear. If you fall down you will usually fall on your back. Offen when falling you roll. If you care something valuable in one hand you will roll by instinct in direction that will save your treasures. So, messenger bag with many pockets for me . A Diesel or Levis sailcloth bags are just perfect.
 
Over the years I've tried just about everything imaginable, and I'm down to basically four bags now, and what I need to carry dictates which bag I take. I have a Domke F-2 for two bodies, five lenses and a flash; an F-6 for one body and 'stuff'; and for travelling light, one body and two lenses and a flash or three lenses, a Timbuk2 extra-small messenger with an insert.

I find these 'security' threads amusing. Conjecturing about what a thief may or may not find attractive is just not productive, especially if you're using your camera. It's pretty obvious what your bag is about.

So first, stealing cameras from a person is passe. They just don't bring much at pawn shops or on Craigslist any more. Second, if you're not comfortable in your environment, you're going to stand out like a sore thumb as a target anyway. You probably ought not be there. And last, the best defense is a good offense. If you look like you're going to be a difficult target, crooks won't bother you. There are other less imposing targets nearby.

So, yes, it's always possible to be a victim of theft or robbery but it doesn't happen often, and folks who project confidence and look like they aren't an easy mark are almost never targeted. It's all about presence.

My point is that a bag is not going to be the criteria for which a crook will select you to be a victim.
 
I'm sure everyone here appreciates the input and passive topic devaluation.

Thanks.

Listen man, I've had jacket pockets slashed on subways, bags unzipped, only to notice later. I've grabbed hands that were in my pockets. I almost smacked a gypsy kid for putting his paper over my phone on a cafe table (common scam). Projecting confidence? Yea, that's all well and good until someone lifts your 1200 dollar toy. Because when it happens to someone else, it's a different story--they were most likely not paying attention the way you or I would, yada yada....gimme a break. When it happens to you, only then is it some brilliant James Bond feat by the thief.

To be clear, I've never had a camera stolen, but a few incidents will wake you up quick.

You think we're talking about violent crime? No way. At least I'm not. I've never been assaulted.

Opportunistic crime. It happens. It's not a problem in most places, at all, even in most cities--US and abroad.

However, large cities and tourist spots are a different story--New York, Paris, just about anywhere in Spain or Italy, and don't get me started on Africa (only northern for me), Southeast Asia, Central and Eastern Europe (Central's not that bad), and good old Central and South America (gold medal in my book).

So I don't want to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

But you don't know what you're talking about.
 
wilonstott said:
I'm sure everyone here appreciates the input and passive topic devaluation.

Thanks.

Listen man, I've had jacket pockets slashed on subways, bags unzipped, only to notice later. I've grabbed hands that were in my pockets. I almost smacked a gypsy kid for putting his paper over my phone on a cafe table (common scam). Projecting confidence? Yea, that's all well and good until someone lifts your 1200 dollar toy. Because when it happens to someone else, it's a different story--they were most likely not paying attention the way you or I would, yada yada....gimme a break. When it happens to you, only then is it some brilliant James Bond feat by the thief.

To be clear, I've never had a camera stolen, but a few incidents will wake you up quick.

You think we're talking about violent crime? No way. At least I'm not. I've never been assaulted.

Opportunistic crime. It happens. It's not a problem in most places, at all, even in most cities--US and abroad.

However, large cities and tourist spots are a different story--New York, Paris, just about anywhere in Spain or Italy, and don't get me started on Africa (only northern for me), Southeast Asia, Central and Eastern Europe (Central's not that bad), and good old Central and South America (gold medal in my book).

So I don't want to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

But you don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Wil, if you've had your pockets slashed, you're a victim of a violent crime. That's assault at the very least, more likely attempted robbery, and robbery if you had something stolen.

I can't address your experience though, I can only give you mine. I'm a retired cop with 30+ years street experience. I worked in a major SoCal city for 11 years, and three other more rural departments before I retired. I've been a violent crime victim so many times while I was working that I've lost count over the years. I've only been a victim off-duty once that I can remember, and that was at O'Hare where I turned to pick my bags up off the carousel to find my laptop bag had been stolen from the floor beside me. I was exhausted and had lost my situational awareness that afternoon.

I've traveled to and stayed in many of the major cities in the U.S. (Detroit and New York City being major exceptions) and many major cities outside the U.S. over the years. I've walked, used public transportation, and toured on bikes. When I worked in SoCal I took the trains daily. That's not to say I haven't been in the presence of street crooks... as I have on many occasions while travelling, and I've seen other crimes committed, and been able to intervene in a couple of others. I've walked around some less-than-welcoming (e.g. the Tenderloin in SF etc.) areas with a camera and bag but other than having my carry-on stolen at O'Hare, I've never had encounters such as you describe. That is good because I've discovered over the years that I make an angry and vengeful potential victim, which really isn't a very good thing for a crook, should I catch them trying to victimize me. That will probably change as I continue to age, but for the time being, that's where I am.

So, Wil, I certainly won't discount your experience, but to suggest that I don't have the experience to back up my position or that "I don't know what I'm talking about" is, perhaps, premature.

There is, of course, no magic cloak that protects from criminals, you but you can do much yourself to ensure your own safety. As advice to any of our members here, I would reiterate my suggestion that situational awareness, projecting confidence, and having the ability to be comfortable in your surroundings is still the best deterrent to being made a victim and will do much more for you than your choice of bag.
 
In the city, a backpack can be a barrier to access : many museums, galleries and a few shops have 'no backpack' policies.
In really large cities with people bottlenecks I'm also not comfortable with all the valuables round the back - especially with american style zip up backpacks ( instant open any zip with a pen ).

For many years I've been using a Mountainsmith tour or the larger day bag.
These are versatile over the shoulder bags that also have a hip belt to share the weight when needed.
There are also clip on straps to convert them into low sitting lumbar backpacks.

If I wanted not a camera bag stealth; a brightly colored courier bag brand by the local brand would seem like the way to go: e.g. Timbuk2 in San Francisco
 
How about using a small backpack for one camera and use a small camera bag for the second camera outfit? Say, place the MF for occasional photos in the small backpack, and place the M9 in a small and light camera bag.
 
I don't think a backpack makes you any less of a target for thieves. In fact, it may make you more so, as the contents of an average non-photographers pack may well include items that are more easily sold, such as laptops, tablets, cell phones, etc. I'm sticking with a shoulder bag.
 
The safest method would be to carry a cheap Yashica RF camera any way you like to.
 
hepcat said:
Wil, if you've had your pockets slashed, you're a victim of a violent crime. That's assault at the very least, more likely attempted robbery, and robbery if you had something stolen.

I can't address your experience though, I can only give you mine. I'm a retired cop with 30+ years street experience. I worked in a major SoCal city for 11 years, and three other more rural departments before I retired. I've been a violent crime victim so many times while I was working that I've lost count over the years. I've only been a victim off-duty once that I can remember, and that was at O'Hare where I turned to pick my bags up off the carousel to find my laptop bag had been stolen from the floor beside me. I was exhausted and had lost my situational awareness that afternoon.

I've traveled to and stayed in many of the major cities in the U.S. (Detroit and New York City being major exceptions) and many major cities outside the U.S. over the years. I've walked, used public transportation, and toured on bikes. When I worked in SoCal I took the trains daily. That's not to say I haven't been in the presence of street crooks... as I have on many occasions while travelling, and I've seen other crimes committed, and been able to intervene in a couple of others. I've walked around some less-than-welcoming (e.g. the Tenderloin in SF etc.) areas with a camera and bag but other than having my carry-on stolen at O'Hare, I've never had encounters such as you describe. That is good because I've discovered over the years that I make an angry and vengeful potential victim, which really isn't a very good thing for a crook, should I catch them trying to victimize me. That will probably change as I continue to age, but for the time being, that's where I am.

So, Wil, I certainly won't discount your experience, but to suggest that I don't have the experience to back up my position or that "I don't know what I'm talking about" is, perhaps, premature.

There is, of course, no magic cloak that protects from criminals, you but you can do much yourself to ensure your own safety. As advice to any of our members here, I would reiterate my suggestion that situational awareness, projecting confidence, and having the ability to be comfortable in your surroundings is still the best deterrent to being made a victim and will do much more for you than your choice of bag.
Click to expand...

Man, I get what you're saying, and I didn't mean to come off like a prick. The thing is, whenever a thread gets going about security, someone always pipes up about how it's overrated. I remember one where a guy was going to Rio, and asking for advice. You tell the people who'd never been anywhere.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think people should agonize over it. Additionally, your sentiment about confidence projection is dead on. I agree that the most important thing is to not look like an easy mark--I think we're coming at the same point from slightly different angles, but I agree with yours one hundred percent.

So yea, I read your thing before I'd had coffee--sorry. You bring up a very valid point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom