aizan
Veteran
a factory repaint...can't beat that.
wouldn't it be great if leica did repaints nowadays? the m8.2's bipack paint is really nice.
wouldn't it be great if leica did repaints nowadays? the m8.2's bipack paint is really nice.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I like the shinier paint on the MP better -- though M8.2 black paint is a LOT nicer than black chrome. I have black paint MP and M8.2 and black chrome M4-P (and black paint Pentax SV and Nikon F and Nikkormat and Pen W, and I've had black paint II, III, M3 and more). The Pen W is the worst of them all: very scabby, but the Nikon Fs are at least as nice as worn-in Ms: strong men go misty-eyed and say. "I used to have one of those... "
Tashi delek,
R.
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bob338
Well-known
they do. i just sent in a smashed up B/P M4 for a restoration and was sent a bill for almost $2k. that would replace almost every part of the camera except for the chassis and shell. in the end, i elected to not have them do the job. that would put me $2800 into a $2500 camera.
as far as robert j's repaints, he does a very nice job. it does not look exactly like an original one, i have a real b/p M3 and a b/p M4 for comparison, but it looks good enough to fool most anyone.
i had one of his repainted M3s for a little while, i traded it back to him for an M7, but i really liked it. i didn't keep it long enough to wear it in, but it looked great right out of the box. one other thing is that he is very prompt and very accommodating with his customers.
my .02
bob
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I would take it to the metallurgist have him/her give the items an acid bath to strip completely. Whip out a can of flat black lawn chair paint and viola. It'll brass a bit but aint that the look you're after, no? Your into it for $25 and change.
Here is the typical factory paint job from the 60s showing 'orange peel'; in this case a black Pen FT:
Here's what modern paint can look like:
Here's what modern paint can look like:
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
I just had an M2 painted by Robert. I love it.
Would I like an original BP M2, M3 or M4? Of course I would. But not enough to spend the money for one.
Was it silly to spend that much money on a paint job? Probably. But it isn't the the first silly thing I've done with money. And I hope it's not the last.
Would I like an original BP M2, M3 or M4? Of course I would. But not enough to spend the money for one.
Was it silly to spend that much money on a paint job? Probably. But it isn't the the first silly thing I've done with money. And I hope it's not the last.
That said, Shintaro does an incredible job if you want a smooth gloss 'show' camera. Since I concentrate on 'users' I chose a semi-gloss as it will hide flaws and fingerprints better than gloss. It takes an incredible amount of work to produce a Shintaro paint job, with people often spending more just for the service than what I charge for an entire painted camera.
George S.
How many is enough?
I know Robert supplies "users", but the M4 I purchased from him was an amazing paint job. I'd say it was collector quality, even though that's not what I expected. And the price was certainly fair.
RF_newbie
RF_newbie John
i hear he does not paint them at all, but that his Mom paints them for him while he watches Scooby-Doo on the cartoon network all day .
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
Fred,
Wish you would have left the posts. Made this thread a bit more interesting.
I actually thought for about the paint job for quite some time before taking the plunge. I just really like the look of a black M2/M3 with brass showing through. Since I don't really have much interest in collector's value, I decided it would be cheaper to just buy a chrome M2 and get the paint job. I think the total package ended up costing me around $800.
From my perspective (the non-collector) it made more sense financially to go this route.
Of course, having a black camera isn't going to help my photography any more than a chrome camera would. But when I look at it, it makes me smile a little. And that has to be worth something.
Wish you would have left the posts. Made this thread a bit more interesting.
I actually thought for about the paint job for quite some time before taking the plunge. I just really like the look of a black M2/M3 with brass showing through. Since I don't really have much interest in collector's value, I decided it would be cheaper to just buy a chrome M2 and get the paint job. I think the total package ended up costing me around $800.
From my perspective (the non-collector) it made more sense financially to go this route.
Of course, having a black camera isn't going to help my photography any more than a chrome camera would. But when I look at it, it makes me smile a little. And that has to be worth something.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Robert is very...very...very near
also at www.rangefinderrestorations.com
and here's Shintaro http://homepage2.nifty.com/Shintaro/aboutpainting.html
aizan
Veteran
you know how in fashion they have color seasons? i wonder if the rule for metal accessories applies to cameras...
if you're a summer or winter, do you look better with a chrome leica?
if you're a spring or fall, do you look better with brassy black paint leicas?
if you're a summer or winter, do you look better with a chrome leica?
if you're a spring or fall, do you look better with brassy black paint leicas?
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Disaster_Area
Gadget Monger
I have a restoration35 Pen F and I'm totally happy with it... and as for stacking up against factory... no one at my camera club could tell it wasn't factory and there where quite a few collectors present.
I guess everyone should complain to Leica for offering chrome or black (or safari or white for that matter.) They should just offer chrome so everyone can just take pictures instead of caring what their cameras look like. 
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Personally, I would like to spend my life surrounded by wonderful people and beautiful things. The idea of not caring about the aesthetics of my life is very depressing, akin to not caring about who I spend my time with. Well--not quite that important. But it's meaningful.
Life's too short not to spend at least some of my free time finding ways to be happy, however subtle and hairsplitting they may be.
Life's too short not to spend at least some of my free time finding ways to be happy, however subtle and hairsplitting they may be.
Ghiom
Established
From what I could enquire, paint or repaint jobs are all technically diffrent... and so are the original paints from Leica. The best quality is reached on the BP M4. You just have to see side by side a BP M2 or M3 and to compare it with one of those M4 ! It is striking... it seems that M4 do have double layers compared to the previous... and it is even more obvious compared to other
PB Ms (MP or M8-2 finish are quite thin and won't last consistently)
We did investigate these issues as my younger sister has a decorative arts diploma in lacquer paint work... (1 school only in Europe... dedicated to deco arts restoration) so we were interested to give a closer look at what are all these paint jobs about... and what she has found is that noone really does a proper lacquer work... (the best one seen, so far, is the Kodak Bantam Special of 1936...)
Most do an airbrush job, one or 2 layers, more or less thin... (mostly car paint) and polish ... (or even not). Some others do use enamel type paint and cook it... (which has some sense due to the durability of such finish)... but real "laque" work it is not ! (And we could regret it understanding the specific qualities of real lacquer paint ) But in the end, it is to be understood mostly as being too costly to make any real meaning just for a camera body (not speaking of the craftmanship implied in such kind of job) ... so in the end it is all about compromising, technically, for the best result within a realistic price to be asked for... (Of course, if money is no problem, everything is possible: silver or gold leaves for the engravings, etc...!) ... So, user's finish or collector's restoration is finally a real issue while looking closely at this kind of job!
She has ended up doing my MP that was purchased worn over (even a bit outrageously to be honest)... but I am still awaiting for having it reassembled by an official repairman here in Paris... she technically did what she considered the best mix of the traditional technic and cost effectiveness to reach the best possible finish (smooth-smooth-smooth) and durability.
Being her first camera, she chose to let her creativity go and played with the classic M lines, allowing brass to be intentionally showned (and vernished) to enhance this classic design masterpiece... I am sure it shall not be to the taste of everyone... (cf: "camera is just a tool", etc. or "traditionalists" who considers that it is sacrilege to "touch" the M line etc... again "user's vs collectors"... but that is not the discussion here)
In the end her technic can be summarised as: previous finish removal (how depends on its specificities and if dings or dents needs to be fixed or not), 3 thin layers of lacquer paint, each one being polished by hand, and a final vernish, hand polished too... Of course, many diffrent types of finish can be obtained this way: mat, semi-glossy, glossy... with diffrent depths of black, etc...
I will post pictures here as soon as I get this camera back.
PB Ms (MP or M8-2 finish are quite thin and won't last consistently)
We did investigate these issues as my younger sister has a decorative arts diploma in lacquer paint work... (1 school only in Europe... dedicated to deco arts restoration) so we were interested to give a closer look at what are all these paint jobs about... and what she has found is that noone really does a proper lacquer work... (the best one seen, so far, is the Kodak Bantam Special of 1936...)
Most do an airbrush job, one or 2 layers, more or less thin... (mostly car paint) and polish ... (or even not). Some others do use enamel type paint and cook it... (which has some sense due to the durability of such finish)... but real "laque" work it is not ! (And we could regret it understanding the specific qualities of real lacquer paint ) But in the end, it is to be understood mostly as being too costly to make any real meaning just for a camera body (not speaking of the craftmanship implied in such kind of job) ... so in the end it is all about compromising, technically, for the best result within a realistic price to be asked for... (Of course, if money is no problem, everything is possible: silver or gold leaves for the engravings, etc...!) ... So, user's finish or collector's restoration is finally a real issue while looking closely at this kind of job!
She has ended up doing my MP that was purchased worn over (even a bit outrageously to be honest)... but I am still awaiting for having it reassembled by an official repairman here in Paris... she technically did what she considered the best mix of the traditional technic and cost effectiveness to reach the best possible finish (smooth-smooth-smooth) and durability.
Being her first camera, she chose to let her creativity go and played with the classic M lines, allowing brass to be intentionally showned (and vernished) to enhance this classic design masterpiece... I am sure it shall not be to the taste of everyone... (cf: "camera is just a tool", etc. or "traditionalists" who considers that it is sacrilege to "touch" the M line etc... again "user's vs collectors"... but that is not the discussion here)
In the end her technic can be summarised as: previous finish removal (how depends on its specificities and if dings or dents needs to be fixed or not), 3 thin layers of lacquer paint, each one being polished by hand, and a final vernish, hand polished too... Of course, many diffrent types of finish can be obtained this way: mat, semi-glossy, glossy... with diffrent depths of black, etc...
I will post pictures here as soon as I get this camera back.
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George S.
How many is enough?
I don't understand why you and she would go to all this bother to repaint a camera and intentionally leave some brass showing. I can understand why people would repaint, and also understand those that don't want the body retouched in any way because they like the brassing... Oh well, maybe I'll 'get it' when I see your pictures.
Ghiom
Established
I do understand your question... and I guess you are right: indeed the answer will be found in the pictures of the final results...
In fact, I gave her green light to do it the way she wanted to. After some time and hesitations she did choose this way, in her point of vue it has been a matter a pure aesthetic: art & craftmanship...
(and to be very precise: NOT to immitate any artificial aging ... )
Right now, we do not know if she will be doing any other ones (weither "collector" renovation or users styles... everything is possible...) this one, at least, will be in her "presentation book"... maybe as a unique piece... but as a personal achievement for sure.
To tell the truth, my personal taste was more encline for a full "mat" black... covering even most of the engravings, except functional ones...
But, opportunity was here for her to do someting special, so why not give it a try ?
(But it is also still true that from a user "only" point of vue, all this can be called "fetichism" ... and will not provide by itself better images... it may just and only increase the pleasure of using such a fine piece of mecanics that M series are...)
In fact, I gave her green light to do it the way she wanted to. After some time and hesitations she did choose this way, in her point of vue it has been a matter a pure aesthetic: art & craftmanship...
(and to be very precise: NOT to immitate any artificial aging ... )
Right now, we do not know if she will be doing any other ones (weither "collector" renovation or users styles... everything is possible...) this one, at least, will be in her "presentation book"... maybe as a unique piece... but as a personal achievement for sure.
To tell the truth, my personal taste was more encline for a full "mat" black... covering even most of the engravings, except functional ones...
But, opportunity was here for her to do someting special, so why not give it a try ?
(But it is also still true that from a user "only" point of vue, all this can be called "fetichism" ... and will not provide by itself better images... it may just and only increase the pleasure of using such a fine piece of mecanics that M series are...)
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squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
You obviously haven't heard about the Fender Custom Shop "relic'ed" guitars. They artificially age the paint job and other parts to make it look broken-in.
I was wondering when people were going to start doing this to cameras...definitely not my cup of tea, but it was inevitable! (That is, I love things that work perfectly but look much-used--I would just rather do the using myself.)