colyn
ישו משיח
I agree...
However when the buyer lies about the condition just to get his money back, the seller is basicly screwed...
As in the post I made earlier..
Whether the damage is caused by the buyer intentionally or by accident the buyer should not be allowed to prevail..
Ranchu
Veteran
You're missing the distinction I'm making. I do expect to clean things, I'm not unreasonable, and I don't expect all that much. I just don't want to be lied to by omission or commission in the hope that I'll consider the return too much trouble and eat the loss. When it happens, and it happens way too often, it's a total waste of my TIME as well as my money. So if sellers have to pay return shipping to force them to describe things accurately, that's fine with me.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
I don't mean to collapse the distinction between Paypal and Ebay. But Ebay has has some fundamental changes since 1998 that do make it very unattractive to buyers and sellers.
- In the old days, you were charged based on opening demands and closing bids. This kept demand prices realistic because you weren't going to pay $3.65 every two weeks to try to sell a 3.5 MX Rollei for $2,000. Today, there is a flood of listings from dealers that price high, leave listings up forever, and hope someone will bite.
- The fees have gone up. Way up. The only place they have gone down is on very high value items, where the fee is capped at $100.
- No buyer feedback. If I'm selling something, how do I weed out the problem people? You used to be able to eliminate people with negative feedback. And why, precisely, does anyone care about a buyer's history if it's all positive?
- The DSR system, which could be called the Kiss Arse Index, is ridiculous. Half of the fields populate automatically, but the killer - item as described - is subject to the whim of the buyer. If you don't have 4.99 or higher, your stuff is bottom of the barrel when it comes to search hits.
- Ebay persecutes shipping costs. In the old days, people avoided fees by putting all of the purchase price into shipping. Ebay overreacted by charging 10% on shipping. The problem is that it puts sellers in the position of (a) losing 10% on shipping by charging actual shipping, (b) getting negged by a buyer no matter how low the shipping price is (really, if you print a label off Ebay, Ebay should be able to tell the relationship between sale price, shipping, and actual spend - and cut you a 5-star DSR if it's within 10%); or (c) eating shipping costs (which have gone up a lot since 1998).
- Ebay has basically made tracking numbers the only proof of delivery, and this makes all postage more expensive, particularly international.
- At the same time, Ebay and USPS have cooked up "E-packet delivery," a highly subsidized way to move low-value items from Asia to the U.S. - sellers in Asia pay less to ship cheap accessories across the Pacific than U.S. sellers pay to ship across town. I suspect this is why used accessories and filters have greatly diminished in number on Ebay. No one can compete with a $1.00 multicoated UV filter shipped for nothing.
- Most gratingly, Ebay doesn't really let sellers set their own terms. The distinction between "returns allowed" and "returns not allowed" collapses with the Buyer Protection Feature, which can put holds on payment regardless of whether the listing says "as-is" or "unlimited guarantee." I'm fine with minimum standards, but they need to be more like 14 days and not 45. Just as you have to report freight damage to a carrier, you should have to report "item not as described" pretty much immediately.
I agree with the assessment that the business model really only caters to high-volume sellers. That said, people who wax nostalgic about camera shows don't remember the "count your fingers when you leave" part of them. These days, I just avoid buying anything I don't genuinely think I'll be able to use and amortize.
Dante
- In the old days, you were charged based on opening demands and closing bids. This kept demand prices realistic because you weren't going to pay $3.65 every two weeks to try to sell a 3.5 MX Rollei for $2,000. Today, there is a flood of listings from dealers that price high, leave listings up forever, and hope someone will bite.
- The fees have gone up. Way up. The only place they have gone down is on very high value items, where the fee is capped at $100.
- No buyer feedback. If I'm selling something, how do I weed out the problem people? You used to be able to eliminate people with negative feedback. And why, precisely, does anyone care about a buyer's history if it's all positive?
- The DSR system, which could be called the Kiss Arse Index, is ridiculous. Half of the fields populate automatically, but the killer - item as described - is subject to the whim of the buyer. If you don't have 4.99 or higher, your stuff is bottom of the barrel when it comes to search hits.
- Ebay persecutes shipping costs. In the old days, people avoided fees by putting all of the purchase price into shipping. Ebay overreacted by charging 10% on shipping. The problem is that it puts sellers in the position of (a) losing 10% on shipping by charging actual shipping, (b) getting negged by a buyer no matter how low the shipping price is (really, if you print a label off Ebay, Ebay should be able to tell the relationship between sale price, shipping, and actual spend - and cut you a 5-star DSR if it's within 10%); or (c) eating shipping costs (which have gone up a lot since 1998).
- Ebay has basically made tracking numbers the only proof of delivery, and this makes all postage more expensive, particularly international.
- At the same time, Ebay and USPS have cooked up "E-packet delivery," a highly subsidized way to move low-value items from Asia to the U.S. - sellers in Asia pay less to ship cheap accessories across the Pacific than U.S. sellers pay to ship across town. I suspect this is why used accessories and filters have greatly diminished in number on Ebay. No one can compete with a $1.00 multicoated UV filter shipped for nothing.
- Most gratingly, Ebay doesn't really let sellers set their own terms. The distinction between "returns allowed" and "returns not allowed" collapses with the Buyer Protection Feature, which can put holds on payment regardless of whether the listing says "as-is" or "unlimited guarantee." I'm fine with minimum standards, but they need to be more like 14 days and not 45. Just as you have to report freight damage to a carrier, you should have to report "item not as described" pretty much immediately.
I agree with the assessment that the business model really only caters to high-volume sellers. That said, people who wax nostalgic about camera shows don't remember the "count your fingers when you leave" part of them. These days, I just avoid buying anything I don't genuinely think I'll be able to use and amortize.
Dante
eBay fees are capped at $100, so $160. Go try to sell that same camera to a store (they'll give you 50% of value) or if lucky, consignment (20% or so and wait and wait). I think ebays fees are ridiculous, but there are worse ways to sell.
Brian Atherton
Well-known
Something else credit card users (at least in the UK) may not be aware of when using PayPal:
http://uk.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-cards-not-covered-paypal-1360.php
http://uk.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-cards-not-covered-paypal-1360.php
jljohn
Well-known
But, wouldn't the 180 day issue still apply if the payment is made via paypal?
For the record, I've sold a number of photographic items here and had wonderful experiences. Buying has been more of a crapshoot though. My success rate as a buyer (i.e. getting items that were as described and expected) has been about the same here as on ebay.
daveleo
what?
technically probably yes, but here you often "know" the buyer and if not you can search his/her postings to get a feel for who they are.
And if a dispute arises, most active members here would probably want to settle it as fair as possible.
Finally, I don't think any third party witnesses on the forum here is going to buy a 6-month old buyer complaint.
"Social pressure".
NY_Dan
Well-known
.. I don't think they cap at $100. I sold a lens for $1600 and eBay alone took $160 fee. Explain me this!
chambrenoire
Well-known
Ranchu
Veteran
So, why would brooklyn camera have these 'different standards' you speak of? Seems to me they were lying about the condition. I'm really not going to accept any of the responsibility for many, many sellers dishonest spinning of condition, no matter how you want to imagine things. I've been buying cameras off ebay since they began selling them, like many here. I have no doubt my experiences are representative. Sellers lie, sellers omit, sellers weasel, and sellers cheat. Without buyer protection, honest sellers are at a disadvantage compared to the dishonest ones, and there are already many green paper incentives for sellers to not be truthful in an an ebay listing, aren't there?
I can't believe I have to tell you this.
enasniearth
Well-known
Cameras
Cameras
It's easy to forget , that the items we are selling and buying are 50 plus years old at this point .
Obviously if the seller describes the item as beautiful and in perfect working order expectations are very high .
If the seller states I know nothing about cameras , here are 15 pictures
That is a different story .
Any older rf camera , will need something .
I have had a few bad seller experiences on eBay , but overall selling on eBay
Has been ok .
These new rules and higher fees that are rolled out every few months are a problem though .
I started out with eBay at 2.9% now they are at 10%plus 10%of shipping
Paypal was 1.9% now it is 3-4%
The whole 180 days to file a dispute is insane / any buyer can cry a river and get a refund 6 months later .
In the old days someone received the item - emailed if there was a problem (this rarely happened ) people knew it was an auction site and that the items were old and used .
It only took one day for someone to say "you know this is not what I expected"
And you just took it back , refunded the purchase price only /not this seller pays shipping both ways if buyer has his feelings compromised in any way
Sorry I guess I put in my 7 cents worth instead of the 2 allotted
Cameras
It's easy to forget , that the items we are selling and buying are 50 plus years old at this point .
Obviously if the seller describes the item as beautiful and in perfect working order expectations are very high .
If the seller states I know nothing about cameras , here are 15 pictures
That is a different story .
Any older rf camera , will need something .
I have had a few bad seller experiences on eBay , but overall selling on eBay
Has been ok .
These new rules and higher fees that are rolled out every few months are a problem though .
I started out with eBay at 2.9% now they are at 10%plus 10%of shipping
Paypal was 1.9% now it is 3-4%
The whole 180 days to file a dispute is insane / any buyer can cry a river and get a refund 6 months later .
In the old days someone received the item - emailed if there was a problem (this rarely happened ) people knew it was an auction site and that the items were old and used .
It only took one day for someone to say "you know this is not what I expected"
And you just took it back , refunded the purchase price only /not this seller pays shipping both ways if buyer has his feelings compromised in any way
Sorry I guess I put in my 7 cents worth instead of the 2 allotted
enasniearth
Well-known
The big thing is that eBay decided that sellers were using the threat of negative feedback to force buyers to keep damaged or misrepresented items
The result - sellers can not leave buyers negative feedback .
As Dante stated all buyers have 100% positive feedback no matter
How they act or conduct transactions .
Scrambler
Well-known
True enough, but there are still comments. Many sellers automate their feedback but specific feedback can be given.
Ranchu
Veteran
I agree, I am talking about sellers who lie about the condition, NOT about judgement calls as some are attempting to imply. A meter needle moves or doesn't, a slr screen is dusty or it isn't, a battery compartment is clean or it isn't. I have nothing at all against people who don't know about cameras or sellers who make honest mistakes, as I said I've made my own, and it's on me to do my part to figure out what the description and pictures indicate. It's intentional dishonesty that irritates me, and it's often obvious. All I'm saying is that buyer protection is in fact necessary.
VertovSvilova
Well-known
Yeah, I don't understand where this $100 cap comes from.
eBay charges 10% of the final sale price. And then Paypal adds their fee on top of that.My local vendor charges 30% of the going used retail pricing. That's more than eBay+PayPal+shipping but it is a lot easier and safer (immediate payment), plus no shipping issues to be concerned about. I've quit selling on eBay and instead have used my local CL or forums like this one. Or I'll just sell it to my vendor and avoid the time/effort of selling myself.
enasniearth
Well-known
Yeah, I don't understand where this $100 cap comes from.
My local vendor charges 30% of the going used retail pricing. That's more than eBay+PayPal+shipping but it is a lot easier and safer (immediate payment), plus no shipping issues to be concerned about. I've quit selling on eBay and instead have used my local CL or forums like this one. Or I'll just sell it to my vendor and avoid the time/effort of selling myself.
The cap on fees , maximum on a single auction is $250
This is the 10% of $2500 ,
Any item that sells above $2500 the fee is still $250
So a $5000 item the fee is still $250 not $500
Ranchu
Veteran
Good to know.
Alberti
Well-known
In Holland the inter-bank exchange used to have 48 hours reserved for the transfer from one bank to another. That covered operational costs. But transfers were free of charge, not bad. Now the last decade the policy has changed. It is very fast now. Some have to pay per transfer.
- This is to show the enormous amount of interest The Bay will be reaping. This is a big additional income for sure.
- Prices will go up from sellers, add 2-3% I guess.
Ranchu
Veteran
Here's a guy lying right in the listing, lens is not the schneider. Is that concrete or vaguely concrete, or some other interpretation we can't depend on vaguely?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rollei-Preg...719?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item43cfc9e82f
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rollei-Preg...719?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item43cfc9e82f
colyn
ישו משיח
How do you know he is lying??
He may not know and was told it is a Schneider lens since many Rolleis use Schneiders.. Therefore he may just be saying what he was told and that is not lying..