PayPal?

[radi(c)al_cam]

Are there more modern or more reliable alternatives?

Inside (most of) Europe? I never had any real problems with SEPA-payments — often it's even faster than a domestic bank transfer.

 

[mpaniagua]

Mmmm... Not sure. I was thinking of getting a Paypal account for the first time, mainly for selling cameras on line, along with weird stuff such as my Space Outlaw ray gun (http://rogerandfrances.eu/toys/space-outlaw1) but as I've never sold anything on line before, I was interested.

Are there more modern or more reliable alternatives?

Cheers,

R.

Not really sure if there is another service that offer the same that Paypal.

I suppose the alternative is using credit card or doing offline payment like money orders or checks?

Im not in love with Paypal but IMHO and my experience, is quite reliable. Twice had problems with scam sellers and Paypal gave my money back.

Something you must be aware if you want to sell items though paypal, is that thier selling charges could be high. Once a sold a $1k lens though it, and I paid around $80.00 on charges. In my case, it was worth it because it was a lens I couldnt sell locally and would need to travel to San Diego,CA (about 2hrs ride) to sell it, so travel expenses would add to the same amount I paid on Paypal.

Also, because I was a new seller, they froze those $1k for about 15days, I suppose to let the buyer file any dispute or something. They reduce the freeze time when you are a current seller Im told.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Inside (most of) Europe? I never had any real problems with SEPA-payments — often it's even faster than a domestic bank transfer.

Very interesting: thanks. I shall look into it more carefully. I need to buy a new ham from my favourite supplier in Biota in Spain.

On the other hand I wonder about the wisdom of excluding US buyers e.g. for the Space Outlaw. Maybe I could run both in parallel...

Incidentally, HOW does a US debit card let people know that you are on food stamps? I have a US debit card (Wells Fargo Bank) and I can't see how they'd do it.

Cheers,

R.

 

[mpaniagua]

Last week I purchased an item from a leading photographic store in S. California using my Debit Card. Debit card is "equivalent to cash."
The vendor never received the cash.
I discovered the money was being held by PayPal. (When ordering the item I was never informed that Paypal would be a part of this transaction.)
My Bank told me they were powerless to cancel the transaction. Now I don’t have the money; the seller doesn’t have the money; PayPal has the money & they’re keeping it.

Suggestion: Before paying for an item with a card over the phone, ascertain that the vendor has no connection with PayPal.

The problem is that the seller didnt knew how Paypal works. And the money IS ON THE SELLER side. The money is on the seller Paypal account but, because the seller doesnt have many transactions, they usually "freeze" the money for around 15 days in order to protect the buyer. If the buyer files a dispute, the money is on the Paypal side and they able to return it to the buyer. So it is on his account but he cant access to it yet. This is to avoid that you get scammed and the seller can ran off with your money, so to speak.

So, Paypal is actually protecting you 🙂 I, for one, think this is a nice feature.

 

[user237428934]

Inside (most of) Europe? I never had any real problems with SEPA-payments — often it's even faster than a domestic bank transfer.

In the SEPA-countries, a thing like a "domestic bank transfer" vanished in 2014.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Not really sure if there is another service that offer the same that Paypal.

I suppose the alternative is using credit card or doing offline payment like money orders or checks?

Im not in love with Paypal but IMHO and my experience, is quite reliable. Twice had problems with scam sellers and Paypal gave my money back.

Something you must be aware if you want to sell items though paypal, is that thier selling charges could be high. Once a sold a $1k lens though it, and I paid around $80.00 on charges. In my case, it was worth it because it was a lens I couldnt sell locally and would need to travel to San Diego,CA (about 2hrs ride) to sell it, so travel expenses would add to the same amount I paid on Paypal.

Also, because I was a new seller, they froze those $1k for about 15days, I suppose to let the buyer file any dispute or something. They reduce the freeze time when you are a current seller Im told.

Thanks for that information. The trouble is that Terms and Conditions tend to be interminable, and legally dubious even if you have a law degree as I do. And, of course, "good faith" is something one rarely associates with on-line businesses. For me, it would almost all be "money in" rather than "money out" (I don't need to buy much, any more, even if I could afford it), and a random freezing of the account would be very inconvenient indeed.

Cheers,

R.

 

[mpaniagua]

Paypal seems to bring out a lot of conflicting (and bad) experiences. Small sellers have often not fared well on paypal. Whose fault that is? -- the stories are seldom detailed enough to know, but certainly there is misunderstanding.

When ebay first started almost everything was paid by money order, so deals were over with no protection for the buyer. I used to only accept US postal money orders, because they were never counterfeit, no one wanted to screw with the feds. Paypay promised protection that seems to many to be one-sided?

So I am not sure it is "misinformation" as much as online deals gone bad.

Roger, if you aren't on eBay, you can't beat direct transfer (SEPA) in the EU. Here in the US most banks offer direct payments but nothing like SEPA, often with no fee. I use it all the time with fellow collectors and friends.

Never paid using direct payments using banks. Do they offer cash back return when they scam you? Would be nice, because Paypal charges are high.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Paypal seems to bring out a lot of conflicting (and bad) experiences. Small sellers have often not fared well on paypal. Whose fault that is? -- the stories are seldom detailed enough to know, but certainly there is misunderstanding.

When ebay first started almost everything was paid by money order, so deals were over with no protection for the buyer. I used to only accept US postal money orders, because they were never counterfeit, no one wanted to screw with the feds. Paypay promised protection that seems to many to be one-sided?

So I am not sure it is "misinformation" as much as online deals gone bad.

Roger, if you aren't on eBay, you can't beat direct transfer (SEPA) in the EU. Here in the US most banks offer direct payments but nothing like SEPA, often with no fee. I use it all the time with fellow collectors and friends.

Thanks for all that. But you seem to imply that if I do use eBay...? I vaguely recall that eB allows only PayPal. Am I correct?

Cheers,

R.

 

[mpaniagua]

Thanks for that information. The trouble is that Terms and Conditions tend to be interminable, and that "good faith" is something one rarely associates with on-line businesses. For me, it would almost all be "money in" rather than "money out" (I don't need to buy much, any more, even if I could afford it), and a random freezing of the account would be very inconvenient indeed.

Cheers,

R.

Well, they don't freeze the bank account per se, but the amount they paid you. In fact they don't freeze the PayPal account at all, just that they "stop" the amount being transferred between the buyer and seller until everything is ok on the buyer side. If you have money from a past transaction as a credit on the account, they don't freeze that, just the amount of the last transaction.

First time I used PayPal to sell was like ***!, but after I realized that the same thing was happening when I made a purchase, I was glad.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Well, they don't freeze the bank account per se, but the amount they paid you. In fact they don't freeze the PayPal account at all, just that they "stop" the amount being transferred between the buyer and seller until everything is ok on the buyer side. If you have money from a past transaction as a credit on the account, they don't freeze that, just the amount of the last transaction.

First time I used PayPal to sell was like ***!, but after I realized that the same thing was happening when I made a purchase, I was glad.

Thanks again, but some here seem to have implied that they freeze the whole account. Am I misunderstanding? I certainly hope so, and besides, random freezes sound like a very strange business model.

Cheers,

R.

 

[sevo]

Inside (most of) Europe? I never had any real problems with SEPA-payments — often it's even faster than a domestic bank transfer.

Domestic bank transfers are not exempt from SEPA regulations, and should be completed by the next working day as well. However transfers within your bank may be slower than SEPA, if there is an explicit time stated in the terms for your account. People that had their account for ages beware - up until a few years you had to pay extra for guaranteed three days turnaround, but these days terms like that make you get a worse than default treatment...

 

[mpaniagua]

Nope, they dont freeze the account. For example, I sell a lens on the 1st day of the month. They keep my money till about the 15th. Then I sell a camera on the 16th, after the money from the first transaction been unfreeze. When I get paid for the second transaction they freeze the amount from that transaction, but I can access and withdraw the money from the first transaction at any time with no problema at all. This (aside from the dates) is an actual example from transactions Ive done on Ebay and paid though Paypal.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Nope, they dont freeze the account. For example, I sell a lens on the 1st day of the month. They keep my money till about the 15th. Then I sell a camere on the 16th, after the money from the first transaction been unfreeze. When I get paid for the second transaction they freeze the amount from that transaction, but I can access and withdraw the money from the first transaction at any time with no problema at all. This (aside from the dates) is an actual example from transaction Ive done on Ebay and paid though Paypal.

Thanks yet again. This makes MUCH more sense!

Cheers,

R.

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

Incidentally, HOW does a US debit card let people know that you are on food stamps? I have a US debit card (Wells Fargo Bank) and I can't see how they'd do it.

http://www.hsd.state.nm.us/LookingForAssistance/electronic-benefits-transfer-ebt-.aspx

Of course, e.g. in NM, see link, the *cashiers* KNOW the respective «Welfare-recipient-or-not» status of their customers:

One can comprehend that many think, that using a «Debit Card» for the *bystanders* may look like a «Electronic Benefits Transfer Card» — — and that explains many people's aversion, finally: an explanation.

 

[sevo]

Thanks again, but some here seem to have implied that they freeze the whole account.

I've seen them freeze a whole Paypal account (which contained only a few € past the sum disputed by the buyer), but they cannot freeze your bank account. Nor can they claim arbitrary sums from your bank account - you can protest and undo any SEPA debit.

 

[mpaniagua]

I don't know the details of the frozen account mentioned, but my guess is that the $8000 had been removed, and the balance being under $8000 might have caused the entire account to be frozen?

It happened to me once when my accountant missed a sales tax deadline, the tax people just clawed one of my accounts into being essentially frozen, by making a demand for $10k on an an account will a smaller balance.

The buyer money left the buyer account and was freezed on the seller account, like I explained on my last post. My guess is the seller was unaware of this (I was the first time I sold though ebay and Paypal 😛) and, because he didnt had access to the money, withheld the transaction till he had the mo ney on his pocket. Very unprofessional if you ask me.

 

[user237428934]

The ebay and paypal business model is 100% based on seller = professional seller or company, buyer = private person. In this model a protection for the buyer is desirable. A company normally prices this model in and they know that a certain amount of buyers will complain or send the item back. Normal business. Shops want a guarantee from the payment processor (=paypal) that they will get money in the future (a couple of days is just normal with every payment method), they don't have the expectation to get money in terms of hours.

Now when a private person acts on this platform as a seller he has the same risks and obligations as a shop but most of the time no experience to act as a professional seller.

I buy on ebay with paypal but from shops only. In Germany I can send everything back to a shop within 14 days (even used goods) when it's bought online. I sell stuff on a big German forum and offer only bank transfer or cash on pickup. With money transfer the risk lies completely on the buyer side but as a non professional seller I'm not willing to take any risk. If you have a certain reputation, it still works even without taking risks.

Within the EU paypal for money transfer outside of a shop is stupid. They charge for something that most banks do for free.

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

Do you really believe Americans think bank debit cards look like EBT cards, and are embarrassed as they use their regular bank debit card?

It's not a question of «believe». It's most basical psychology!

You can have a look into some psychology 101 what especially not so wealthy people think or fear when there are — probably nosy — *bystanders* watching them.

 

[richard_l]

As a buyer, I have used PayPal for many years without any problem. Recently they have given me a credit option: They will loan the money for a purchase (up to a certain limit), and I have six months to pay it back without interest.

 

[Roger Hicks]

As a buyer, I have used PayPal for many years without any problem. Recently they have given me a credit option: They will loan the money for a purchase (up to a certain limit), and I have six months to pay it back without interest.

Dear Richard,

Thanks for yet more information that I did not know.

Cheers,

Roger