BAPIEMAI
Member
I suppose it all depends where you live. In Greece crime rates are not so high for people to demand to have handguns so those that do are the Rambo types. As far as hunting goes you can get any hunting rifle and shotgun and you can even purchase shells for hunting wild boar (they can cut a man in two theses shells).
Hunters are totally different but there are two categories. There are those who love nature and hunt for sport but ALWAYS respect the hunting laws and kill only what they will eat. These guys you cannot tell them apart from Greenpeace, they repsect the prey they do not torture it and will not eradicate a whole ecosystem for fun.
But there are also types who shoot down eagles. What kind of pervert you have to be to kill an eagle ?
Maybe I have strong opinion because I know guns, I know people who use them and I have used them. I have witnessed som very bad accidents involving sniper rifles and 7.62 rounds (the guys scalp was blown off but after two weeks in a comma he came out fine)
Hunters are totally different but there are two categories. There are those who love nature and hunt for sport but ALWAYS respect the hunting laws and kill only what they will eat. These guys you cannot tell them apart from Greenpeace, they repsect the prey they do not torture it and will not eradicate a whole ecosystem for fun.
But there are also types who shoot down eagles. What kind of pervert you have to be to kill an eagle ?
Maybe I have strong opinion because I know guns, I know people who use them and I have used them. I have witnessed som very bad accidents involving sniper rifles and 7.62 rounds (the guys scalp was blown off but after two weeks in a comma he came out fine)
TPPhotog
Well-known
There are always exceptions but here in the UK before the effective ban, the firearms laws were always very strict. Anyone applying for a Section 1 license which was any firearm other than a shotgun or air weapon under a certain power had to be a club member and be positively vetted by the Police to get a license.
In order to stay in the County Squad and the Police Team I would be either practicing or taking part in competitions 4 or 5 days a week, very much like any other sport at a higher level.
Since the ban on firearms in the UK, the incidence of gun related crime has increased dramatically. So now the villains have firearms and the peace loving sportsmen do not.
As Roger said it was "anti-gun hysteria"
In order to stay in the County Squad and the Police Team I would be either practicing or taking part in competitions 4 or 5 days a week, very much like any other sport at a higher level.
Since the ban on firearms in the UK, the incidence of gun related crime has increased dramatically. So now the villains have firearms and the peace loving sportsmen do not.
As Roger said it was "anti-gun hysteria"
Last edited:
bruenhilde
Established
My experience with hunters was quite scary. Those guys can be quite dangerous, if it happens to you to meet them unwillingy in the woods. I was with my young son (4 years old then) picking up some mushrooms (edible of course) and those bloody hunters were surrounding the area full of wild animals, and
scaring those poor beings shitless, and I didn't know that we two (me and my kid) were in that same hunting area. There was no warning that hunting is going on, nothing... I saw some deers running like mad through the woods, but I didn't suspect anything is wrong... And then, after some time, I saw that strange and powerful animal, wild boar, very excited, criss-crossing in my direction. I just grab my kid under my arm, when scared beast stopped around 3 meters before me, and I run for life with my child in my arms, but animal also turned other way and probably did the same as I was doing..., running to some safe place...
I thanked to the stars for good luck, because if that beast had been wounded, I just didn't want to think about the consequences of such an event.
scaring those poor beings shitless, and I didn't know that we two (me and my kid) were in that same hunting area. There was no warning that hunting is going on, nothing... I saw some deers running like mad through the woods, but I didn't suspect anything is wrong... And then, after some time, I saw that strange and powerful animal, wild boar, very excited, criss-crossing in my direction. I just grab my kid under my arm, when scared beast stopped around 3 meters before me, and I run for life with my child in my arms, but animal also turned other way and probably did the same as I was doing..., running to some safe place...
I thanked to the stars for good luck, because if that beast had been wounded, I just didn't want to think about the consequences of such an event.
TPPhotog
Well-known
The only experience I have with hunting as I live in the country side are those that use shotguns or horse and hounds. The ones I have met have always been friendly but I've never hunted myself unless you count fishing, never seen the point as we have many wonderful butchers shops for food.
BAPIEMAI
Member
The idea of eating your prey is about respect to nature. You don't kill for sport you kill as a hunter only what you need as the first humans did. Of course you don't need that to survive in modern times but they way it is done it causes no harm to the ecosystem. In Greece when hunting for wild boar you don't kill everything in your path you just hunt for one and after that it's over. It is no more unethical as going to the butcher's.
TPPhotog
Well-known
I see nothing unethical in hunting and have no objections to those that do. I'm just not into hunting myself.
BAPIEMAI
Member
I'm not into it either because I don't like guns. I prefer to 'hunt' lizards and other bugs with macro lens, now that takes skill.
TPPhotog
Well-known
LOL Good point as a Street Shooter I guess I am a Hunter after all
bruenhilde
Established
I agree with you BAPIEMAI. I admire hunters that go after their prey like Indians in Northern America did, but those modern hunters of our time, they come on the scene in their luxurious 4x4 SUVs, surround as much area of the wood as possible with the help of a packs of hunting dogs, and then those great wild animals like deers, bears, wild boars, lynxes, wolves, etc... are mercilessly slaughtered from the safe distance of course... In my country, the profile of a hunter that I have met is more or less fat, lazy and rather drunk soulless creature. And there is not so low a figure of collateral damage (wounded or dead humans), caused by these madmen,...
TPPhotog
Well-known
Maybe in your country you could hunt the hunters?bruenhilde said:
BAPIEMAI
Member
I guess morons are everywhere. How the hell can we trust guys like that with guns. But I suppose guns replece sex to these fellows, what they cannot do to their wifes they do to animals.
The bad thing is that legitamate hunters are blamed too, just like with street photographer these days who cannot shoot kids because tey branded as perverts
The bad thing is that legitamate hunters are blamed too, just like with street photographer these days who cannot shoot kids because tey branded as perverts
bruenhilde
Established
TPPhotog,
Of course, I don't believe that all hunters in my country are such bastards as I depicted them. But, from my experience, I could not say much good about them. They do shoot (protected by law) eagles (perverts), they do shoot protected species of animals in our mountains, like chamois and ibexes... But I am speaking only from my experience, and I did see them in action, and I did see the consequences --> dozen or more killed young deers, in winter hills (I am an avid mountain hiker), when there was 1m of snow, and those poor animals were more or less helpless,... I did see their ugly (hidden) "bloodthirsty-drunken-triggerhappy" face, other (public or newspaper) face is all "friendly-somber-eco-green" of course.
But, sometimes, yes, sometimes even one of them got a bullet from their comrade... Friendly fire I guess....
I am also some sort of a hunter, but only when using my macro equipment. And only flowers and plants are not too fast for my clumsy hand But this is RFF forum, my macro is all SLR...
Of course, I don't believe that all hunters in my country are such bastards as I depicted them. But, from my experience, I could not say much good about them. They do shoot (protected by law) eagles (perverts), they do shoot protected species of animals in our mountains, like chamois and ibexes... But I am speaking only from my experience, and I did see them in action, and I did see the consequences --> dozen or more killed young deers, in winter hills (I am an avid mountain hiker), when there was 1m of snow, and those poor animals were more or less helpless,... I did see their ugly (hidden) "bloodthirsty-drunken-triggerhappy" face, other (public or newspaper) face is all "friendly-somber-eco-green" of course.
But, sometimes, yes, sometimes even one of them got a bullet from their comrade... Friendly fire I guess....
I am also some sort of a hunter, but only when using my macro equipment. And only flowers and plants are not too fast for my clumsy hand
But this is RFF forum, my macro is all SLR...TPPhotog
Well-known
Bruenhilde, no worries I didn't think you were inferring that they are all the same Happily in the UK we usually (not always depending on the persons views) differentiate between hunters and poachers. Sadly there will always be those that have no morals and/or break the rules, happily they are a minority for the present or we would have anarchy.
Also sadly the hysteria in the UK is targeted towards pictures of children these days and it is getting more risky taking street shots. The media has effectively labeled all photographers taking pictures of children with the blanket feeling that we must be up to something un-natural. HCB and other icons would turn in their grave.
Happily in the UK we usually (not always depending on the persons views) differentiate between hunters and poachers. Sadly there will always be those that have no morals and/or break the rules, happily they are a minority for the present or we would have anarchy.Also sadly the hysteria in the UK is targeted towards pictures of children these days and it is getting more risky taking street shots. The media has effectively labeled all photographers taking pictures of children with the blanket feeling that we must be up to something un-natural. HCB and other icons would turn in their grave.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Flinor said:
You are absolutely correct. Both are very crisp and clean in their mechanical workings. Wish I had not sold the Python many years ago.
Bob
N
nwcanonman
Guest
............................................BAPIEMAI said:
If you are a trained SF soldier, "using your hands" is great. If you are an elderly person, a small woman or the average untrained person is attacked by a street thug, the ability to protect him/herself is small if they don't have a legally trained weapon.
Here is the USA it is legal to carry a pistol in most states, and those that have carry permits very rarely use guns illegally.
Daily street crime is why we own firearms, not to protect against tanks and soldiers.
doubs43
Well-known
I lived in England between 1981 and 1987. I belonged to the "Viking Pistol Club" at Wickham Market, Suffolk County. I had a Firearms Permit and owned three handguns with which I shot competition in Smallbore (.22), Centerfire Revolver and Centerfire Pistol. I often shot on the Suffolk County Pistol Team in competitions from Great Yarmouth to just North of London. I still have all three handguns.
The so-called "Hungerford Massacre" happened not many months before I came back to the States and it didn't take long for the anti-gun faction in England to get legislation introducted in Parliment to remove most guns from the hands of private British Subjects. I'll long remember the conversation that I had with one of the Richardson Brothers at their gun shop in Halesworth. He said "Well, the new legislation won't hurt us as all we sell are shotguns and air rifles." I told him that I was sorry to disagree but that the anti-gun people wouldn't be satisfied until every gun of every kind was outlawed. He didn't believe me.
The pity is that every gun owner that I knew or met in England was aware of the consequences of misusing a gun and were possibly the most responsible, law-abiding people I've known. They didn't deserve their fate and it will be the everlasting shame of every MP who voted for the legislation that they wronged so many fine people....... better people than the average by far, IMO.
Walker
The so-called "Hungerford Massacre" happened not many months before I came back to the States and it didn't take long for the anti-gun faction in England to get legislation introducted in Parliment to remove most guns from the hands of private British Subjects. I'll long remember the conversation that I had with one of the Richardson Brothers at their gun shop in Halesworth. He said "Well, the new legislation won't hurt us as all we sell are shotguns and air rifles." I told him that I was sorry to disagree but that the anti-gun people wouldn't be satisfied until every gun of every kind was outlawed. He didn't believe me.
The pity is that every gun owner that I knew or met in England was aware of the consequences of misusing a gun and were possibly the most responsible, law-abiding people I've known. They didn't deserve their fate and it will be the everlasting shame of every MP who voted for the legislation that they wronged so many fine people....... better people than the average by far, IMO.
Walker
TPPhotog said:There are always exceptions but here in the UK before the effective ban, the firearms laws were always very strict. Anyone applying for a Section 1 license which was any firearm other than a shotgun or air weapon under a certain power had to be a club member and be positively vetted by the Police to get a license.
In order to stay in the County Squad and the Police Team I would be either practicing or taking part in competitions 4 or 5 days a week, very much like any other sport at a higher level.
Since the ban on firearms in the UK, the incidence of gun related crime has increased dramatically. So now the villains have firearms and the peace loving sportsmen do not.
As Roger said it was "anti-gun hysteria"
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
When I started shooting pistols over 30 years ago in Canada and it was then legal to own a machine gun as it was a class of restricted firearm that had to be registered. I watched as a series of progressively more draconian gun regulations were passed over the years. First to go was the legally owned machine guns and the hunters and trap and skeet shooters did not care. Then they slowly cut down on the type of handgun you could legally own and the aforementioned groups did not care. The light finally came on after you had to register all firearms and the whining started. It took 30 years and they got what they wanted. From my point of view it is a billion dollar pacifier to stick in the general public's collective mouth to calm the anti-gun hysteria. That money could have been better spent on our public health care sytem. We are no safer today. This trend is also happened in Australia, the USA and England at the same time. To get back on topic, I am glad I had the chance to learn to shoot firearms as the techniques used apply very well to camera shooting.
Bob
Bob
N
nwcanonman
Guest
Nikon Bob,
In the USA there is one major stumbling block for the anti-gun hysteria, the National Rifle Association. Despite being demonized by the media, the NRA fights legally for honest gun ownership by target shooters, hunters, collectors and trains thousands of policeman and soldiers as well.
Every time I hear the anti-gun crowd say, "Guns are only used to kill people", I wonder what the 200+ USA Olympic Shooters team members are winning medals for - LOL.
I'm proud to be an NRA Life member.
In the USA there is one major stumbling block for the anti-gun hysteria, the National Rifle Association. Despite being demonized by the media, the NRA fights legally for honest gun ownership by target shooters, hunters, collectors and trains thousands of policeman and soldiers as well.
Every time I hear the anti-gun crowd say, "Guns are only used to kill people", I wonder what the 200+ USA Olympic Shooters team members are winning medals for - LOL.
I'm proud to be an NRA Life member.
BAPIEMAI
Member
@ nwcanonman
I am NOT against the ownership of guns I just say that owning one makes you even more vulnerable.
If it was legal in Greece to own handguns I probably would have one in my closet but I am well trained to use it in self defence (and offence) but I wouldn't carry it with me outdoors.
You said that law abiding citizens like elders should carry guns for self defence. Do you think a guy with no military training can defend himself against a thug who uses a gun for a living ?
If you stick a gun to my face I could kill you with my hands before you can squeeze that trigger BUT if something like that happens I'll just give you my money because the risk is not worth it and furthermore I don't want to kill a thief.
The fact is that all of us 'normal' citizens have never been in a life/death situation but probably the criminals have, so even if we do make a move against them they do have the upper hand and most probably will end up dead as well as empty pocketed.
I for myself have been trained but have never seen real combat, in a firefight with an armed thug I think I would lose.
I am NOT against the ownership of guns I just say that owning one makes you even more vulnerable.
If it was legal in Greece to own handguns I probably would have one in my closet but I am well trained to use it in self defence (and offence) but I wouldn't carry it with me outdoors.
You said that law abiding citizens like elders should carry guns for self defence. Do you think a guy with no military training can defend himself against a thug who uses a gun for a living ?
If you stick a gun to my face I could kill you with my hands before you can squeeze that trigger BUT if something like that happens I'll just give you my money because the risk is not worth it and furthermore I don't want to kill a thief.
The fact is that all of us 'normal' citizens have never been in a life/death situation but probably the criminals have, so even if we do make a move against them they do have the upper hand and most probably will end up dead as well as empty pocketed.
I for myself have been trained but have never seen real combat, in a firefight with an armed thug I think I would lose.
N
nwcanonman
Guest
LOL - the only life/death situation most criminals get into is when they attack an armed citizen. Most criminals are (A) Lazy and (B) Cowards.
If they see someone walking with confidence and another who exudes fear, the criminal will pick on the fearful one knowing he won't put up any resistance.
As an emergency services worker, I've been shot at, but never had to point my gun at another human being. But I'd have no problem defending my life if it should ever become absolutely neseccary.
BTW- most armed thugs do not practice shooting, they're lucky to just scare their victims, and only hit them at contact distance (a meter away).
If they see someone walking with confidence and another who exudes fear, the criminal will pick on the fearful one knowing he won't put up any resistance.
As an emergency services worker, I've been shot at, but never had to point my gun at another human being. But I'd have no problem defending my life if it should ever become absolutely neseccary.
BTW- most armed thugs do not practice shooting, they're lucky to just scare their victims, and only hit them at contact distance (a meter away).