Photography Disrespectful?

From the Alamo web site:

Why Are No Photographs Allowed Inside The Alamo?
The Alamo, like many other museums, asks patrons to not photograph exhibits for several reasons. Repeated exposures to camera flashes fade certain types of artifacts. Additionally, the Alamo church has been designated a shrine by the State of Texas and as such is a place of reverence and reflection.
 
From the Alamo web site:

Why Are No Photographs Allowed Inside The Alamo?
The Alamo, like many other museums, asks patrons to not photograph exhibits for several reasons. Repeated exposures to camera flashes fade certain types of artifacts. Additionally, the Alamo church has been designated a shrine by the State of Texas and as such is a place of reverence and reflection.
People often look puzzled when I point out that my camera doesn't even HAVE a flash, which makes that "reason" a non-starter.

Also, the little research I've ever seen about camera flashes fading things suggests that those who hold this view are succumbing to "truthiness": that in reality, the total extra light is an infinitesimal fraction of the ambient, non-flash light, and can safely be neglected. I am quite prepared to believe that flash fades things, but only because it seems intuitively likely, not because I've ever seen any evidence whatsoever.

Has anyone any references to good research? A quick Google reveals http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...y-really-damage-art-the-persistence-of-a-myth and http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/12bxwl/to_what_degree_and_how_does_flash_photography/

The irritation value of flash, and people stopping the movement of others, are more convincing arguments. But who wants to visit overcrowded venues anyway?

Cheers,

R.
 
I think the answer is pretty simple in this case. Have you seen the prices on their souvenir photos in the gift shop? Someone is being allowed to be "disrespectful" as long as the money goes where some people feel it should. 🙂

Most of the time this (money) is the only reason
and it has nothing to do with any moral or philosphical reasoning of respect that might someone make to take no picture because he senses the situation and doesn't take a picture although there is no sign "No Photography".
 
The Alamo also have a no hats rule. I think it is part of an idea that the place needs to be given reverence. Of course there are millions of other places where thousands more died serving their country or defending their way of life. You can take photos at the USS Arizona memorial for instance, and I don't see anything inherently disrespectful about wanting to document one's visit to a place of historical importance to their country. In my opinion the no-photo rule at the Alamo is a bit silly.

Of COURSE it's silly...it's TEXAS !!!
 
But who wants to visit overcrowded venues anyway?

Presumably not many are lured by the attraction of the venue being overcrowded, but their desire to see or experience the thing is sufficient lure for them to put up with that anyway. In great numbers.
 
Presumably not many are lured by the attraction of the venue being overcrowded, but their desire to see or experience the thing is sufficient lure for them to put up with that anyway. In great numbers.
Still strikes me as a bit pointless. Yes, I've tried many when I was younger -- Louvre, Alhambra, Rijksmuseum, etc. -- but increasingly I'd rather look for something that isn't on the "bucket lists" of the terminally unimaginative.

As for "experience", well, what "experience" do you get, being rushed through an Attraction, with a capital A? Where's the time to think? For example, I couldn't be arsed to queue for, and rush through, the Acropolis of Athens. The theatre at Megalopolis was another matter: we saw five other people there in maybe an hour.

Cheers,

R.
 
Oh I don't think visiting famous or well-visited "attractions" makes you "terminally unimaginative" - I hope not anyway. Nor does it mean that, as a visitor to well-visited places, you can't also visit other, less popular sites or that your enjoyment of either will be diminished.

If I travel from Australia to Delhi, for instance, and really want to see the Taj Mahal, then I need to prepare myself that to do so will involve sharing the experience with a lot of others, queuing etc. Otherwise, I don't see it, even though I may see other, less popular sites where I can spend more time. It is a choice you make, and a rather indulgent one at that, whichever way you choose.

As for "experience", well I feel that there is an experience to be gained, even if you are rushed. It is, after all, how people currently view such sites and so it is the contemporary experience of the Acropolis or whatever. But it is more than that. To some extent, and as an aside this is true of photography, when we focus on something (an "attraction", a model, a scene or whatever) we all have the ability to a greater or lesser extent to screen out the noise surrounding us. If the desire to "experience" the thing is sufficient to overcome the negatives of the overcrowding situation, then we are potentially a little richer, surely.

But, point taken - there are few things better than to visit someplace that you have come a long way to see, or really want to see/experience, and to have the experience to yourself or with just a few others around.
 
People often look puzzled when I point out that my camera doesn't even HAVE a flash, which makes that "reason" a non-starter.

Also, the little research I've ever seen about camera flashes fading things suggests that those who hold this view are succumbing to "truthiness": that in reality, the total extra light is an infinitesimal fraction of the ambient, non-flash light, and can safely be neglected. I am quite prepared to believe that flash fades things, but only because it seems intuitively likely, not because I've ever seen any evidence whatsoever.

Has anyone any references to good research? A quick Google reveals http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...y-really-damage-art-the-persistence-of-a-myth and http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/12bxwl/to_what_degree_and_how_does_flash_photography/

The irritation value of flash, and people stopping the movement of others, are more convincing arguments. But who wants to visit overcrowded venues anyway?

Cheers,

R.

That sounds pretty much like the "turn off all your electronics when the plane is taking off or landing" rule. I understand no cell phone (even though I don't think it really matters), but no iPod or Walkman? That's just paranoid.
 
A lot of museums ban photography. I was in the Hong Kong art museum (great place) once and I took a photo (no flash) and it triggered like a major security alert with dudes in suits and walkie-talkies scurrying towards me as if I were Robert Wagner stealing the art or something. I noticed later, as I've noticed in other museums, this museum does a thriving business selling coffee table books with photos of all the currently exhibited items. I think that may be part of it with many such institutions, i.e. they need funds from selling books, post cards, videos, posters and such in the museum book stores and they do not want competition. I'm sure they need the money too, so it's understandable.

-- David
 
A lot of museums ban photography. I was in the Hong Kong art museum (great place) once and I took a photo (no flash) and it triggered like a major security alert with dudes in suits and walkie-talkies scurrying towards me as if I were Robert Wagner stealing the art or something. I noticed later, as I've noticed in other museums, this museum does a thriving business selling coffee table books with photos of all the currently exhibited items. I think that may be part of it with many such institutions, i.e. they need funds from selling books, post cards, videos, posters and such in the museum book stores and they do not want competition. I'm sure they need the money too, so it's understandable.

-- David

I would love to buy those books if they weren't so outrageously priced.
 
Ko.fe
That was probably a National Trust place, they are staffed by volunteers and have a no photography policy in some houses, sometimes just a few rooms in a house. You might find the houses are partly occupied and some areas also verboten.

So the old lady who said 'the light will destroy the painting' has probably been told the flash is bad, distracting and to be discouraged.

That's why you use a tripod instead - unless that is an abomination, too. 🙄

The real abomination is the increasing control-freakism that photographers are subjected to these days.
 
Having been to the Alamo last summer, with all the people trampling over each other in the darkened building, you'd have a heck of a time getting any decent photos anyway. I think I spent all of 2-3 minutes in the main building. Walked almost straight through, looked at a couple of displays, and decided that it all looked the same inside anyway. I found the rest of the grounds more interesting.
 
People often look puzzled when I point out that my camera doesn't even HAVE a flash, which makes that "reason" a non-starter.

Also, the little research I've ever seen about camera flashes fading things suggests that those who hold this view are succumbing to "truthiness": that in reality, the total extra light is an infinitesimal fraction of the ambient, non-flash light, and can safely be neglected. I am quite prepared to believe that flash fades things, but only because it seems intuitively likely, not because I've ever seen any evidence whatsoever.

Has anyone any references to good research? A quick Google reveals http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...y-really-damage-art-the-persistence-of-a-myth and http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/12bxwl/to_what_degree_and_how_does_flash_photography/

The irritation value of flash, and people stopping the movement of others, are more convincing arguments. But who wants to visit overcrowded venues anyway?

Cheers,

R.
I was waiting for someone to point this out. I have been told the same thing from people who should know the facts of this matter. Apparently the "flash will damage or fade artworks and artifacts" claim is an urban legend that predates the urban legend trend.

Here are a couple of essays on this issue:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...y-really-damage-art-the-persistence-of-a-myth

And the long-winded, technical treatise on the subject:
http://people.ds.cam.ac.uk/mhe1000/musphoto/flashphoto2.htm
 
Oh I don't think visiting famous or well-visited "attractions" makes you "terminally unimaginative" - I hope not anyway. Nor does it mean that, as a visitor to well-visited places, you can't also visit other, less popular sites or that your enjoyment of either will be diminished.

If I travel from Australia to Delhi, for instance, and really want to see the Taj Mahal, then I need to prepare myself that to do so will involve sharing the experience with a lot of others, queuing etc. Otherwise, I don't see it, even though I may see other, less popular sites where I can spend more time. It is a choice you make, and a rather indulgent one at that, whichever way you choose.

As for "experience", well I feel that there is an experience to be gained, even if you are rushed. It is, after all, how people currently view such sites and so it is the contemporary experience of the Acropolis or whatever. But it is more than that. To some extent, and as an aside this is true of photography, when we focus on something (an "attraction", a model, a scene or whatever) we all have the ability to a greater or lesser extent to screen out the noise surrounding us. If the desire to "experience" the thing is sufficient to overcome the negatives of the overcrowding situation, then we are potentially a little richer, surely.

But, point taken - there are few things better than to visit someplace that you have come a long way to see, or really want to see/experience, and to have the experience to yourself or with just a few others around.
Your points are well taken too. I suppose my real point is that it's a lot more fun to do a bit of research (cf Megalopolis), or even to wander about and see what turns up (there's LOTS of that in Malta, and a surprising amount in Spain), than to queue and have exactly the same (hurried, and for me essentially incomplete) experience as everyone else. Thus, in Venice, I hurried through St. Mark's Square; didn't bother with the church at all; and had a much better time photographing the back streets. The Taj Mahal, the Topkapi Palace and the Forbidden City may involve queuing to get in, but they're not very crowded once you're through the gate -- which given the size of the Acropolis of Athens, the size of the queues, and the rate at which people emerge, cannot be the case. It took me a couple of minutes on the worn marble steps to come to this conclusion.

In other words, the sheer waste of time (or the ratio of wasted time to quality time) is far too great with all too many of The Sights: I could spend the time better in wandering and thinking (and taking pictures). And, as I hinted with the "bucket list" comment, there's a sort of psychic radiation from those who are just ticking off The Sights, and it makes me uncomfortable: I must not be as good as you are at blocking it out.

Cheers,

R.
 
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I was waiting for someone to point this out. I have been told the same thing from people who should know the facts of this matter. Apparently the "flash will damage or fade artworks and artifacts" claim is an urban legend that predates the urban legend trend.

Here are a couple of essays on this issue:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...y-really-damage-art-the-persistence-of-a-myth

And the long-winded, technical treatise on the subject:
http://people.ds.cam.ac.uk/mhe1000/musphoto/flashphoto2.htm
Thanks very much for the links. The Evans piece (the second one) is especially good.

Cheers

R.
 
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