Piezography Pro

[jszokoli]

Cal,

Sent a e-mail inquiring about availability, no answer yet.

What sizes do the PP inks come in?

Joe

 

[Calzone]

Cal,

Sent a e-mail inquiring about availability, no answer yet.

What sizes do the PP inks come in?

Joe

Joe,

I'll send you the email I got from Jon Cone about the mid-March availability.

The inksets come in increments to fill your carts, but realize after the initial fill that about 1/3rd of the capacity of a 90ml 3880 cart would be gone and be in the lines and waste tank. I believe there are 110ml inksets

I only paid attention to the bigger sizes of 700ml and 350ml because I wanted to bulk up to save money. Anyways you know how much I print...

BTW as an early adopter there was incentive to bulk up: a 15% discount on ink and carts.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

UPDATE: My pace of printing has been about a box of 25 17x22's a month and I'm down to my last box and will have to restock soon. My 7800 remains in storage mode and is loaded with Piezoflush. Sometime later this month I'll power up the 7800 and run a Power Clean just for good measure.

At this point I have a large stack of 18x12 prints that are fully developed work prints on 17x22 paper. The backs of these prints are annotated with useful information, and the way I have the borders set up there is a rather big offset of 3 inches from the left edge or top of the print depending on if the print is a landscape or vertical shot.

Over the weekend I kinda sorted into piles the urban landscape shots, street shots, and the combination. It became an obvious edit that eventually became two piles: one was more landscape where any people were incidental; and the other pile had either a person or people as the main subject. All were of NYC as the location, so in very broad terms this book will be about "street."

The size of this book overall will be 22x17 inches, and since this is a workbook that will be eternally edited and will be a container for organizing images, I now have a format that creates prints that are large enough to have meaning, but I'm creating a rather serious table-top book that will be a rather large object.

I decided to be clever and utilize a ready made clamshell box as part of the presentation to add elegance, so this locks me into the size of the overall size of the book, and the depth of the box is 2 inches deep, and overall we are talking a 45-55 pound book that when full might have 150-180 pages when full.

Initially I was going to sew the pages and make a conventionally bound book, but this project now I see as being better as being modular to support editing and continual evolution that will lead to fully developed body of work. The intent is to use my book as an editing tool primarily, but later it could be a grand marketing tool to display my work that hopefully leads to exhibition.

I intend on using these modular screw binders that will allow me to scale in the thickness I need as I print more, and the front and back covers will be intergrated into masking the screw binders. Because I have an extra two inches of either left or top border I have this amount of material to add to the border or spine.

So anyways I now have a workable concept that seems flushed out, and it seems I am really utilizing the 3880 in a grand way to build a serious body of work that has a lot of potential.

Sorry for the rant.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

I got an e-mail that the second batch will be available on March 28th.

I am greatful to have been an early adopter, and also know that I was wise to take advantage of sale pricing to "load up the truck" with a stockpile.

I remain deeply impressed with PP, and one pass printing surely speeds up my printing.

The book I am creating (personal workbook comprised of "workprints") is turning out to be rather impressive, and I think I will enlist a consult with the "Center For Book Arts" here in NYC to get some technical advice. I am pretty sure I could barter some prints or printing for the technical assistance with a book artist.

Cal

 

[thompsonks]

I wonder what sort of 'modular screw binders' you're using?

I use the Moab and Pina Zangaro products for mockups, and then have a professional bookbinder make the final version. I like screwpost binding for original prints, in the style of Friedlander's Monuments, because the book's owner can remove individual pages for framing and then put them back again. My experience is that a midweight matte paper works best for original-print books because semi-gloss and gloss surfaces Tend to develop moon-shaped crinkles from page-turning.

Have you found screwpost kits in larger sizes than the ones I mentioned?

Kirk

PS, finally bought a 3880 and ordered the Piezo Pro ink set. I hope it won't clog and won't suffer from metamerism like older versions. Will no doubt be asking soon for your insights/experience/advice!

 

[Calzone]

I wonder what sort of 'modular screw binders' you're using?

I use the Moab and Pina Zangaro products for mockups, and then have a professional bookbinder make the final version. I like screwpost binding for original prints, in the style of Friedlander's Monuments, because the book's owner can remove individual pages for framing and then put them back again. My experience is that a midweight matte paper works best for original-print books because semi-gloss and gloss surfaces Tend to develop moon-shaped crinkles from page-turning.

Have you found screwpost kits in larger sizes than the ones I mentioned?

Kirk

PS, finally bought a 3880 and ordered the Piezo Pro ink set. I hope it won't clog and won't suffer from metamerism like older versions. Will no doubt be asking soon for your insights/experience/advice!

Kirk,

The largest screw binder posts I have ever seen were perhaps three inches. In the literary world where 12 point double space manuscripts they are used.

For screenplays thinner versions are commonly used for about 120 pages of copy paper.

When I locate a source I surely will post. Pretty sure I saw these at AI Friedman.

Cal

 

[thompsonks]

Thx, Cal, but no problem finding the posts themselves. Main whsle source is Chicago Screws. I guess we have something different in mind – I was asking if you were using the screwpost binder kits with covers that give a finished-looking result, or at least finished enough for a mock-up.

Perhaps say more about what you're making? You want to make a book three inches thick, of prints on fine art photo paper? When Steidl prints something like that, they make it in 2 or 3 volumes so you can carry it and open it!

Kirk

PS, I'm trying to follow you into Piezo Pro but am encountering obstacles. Getting started is difficult bcz they don't have a simple/sensible list of what makes up a 'starter kit.' They should offer this for 3xxx. 4xxx, and 7xxx printers?

Also some little supply problems: Found out when unpacking that I had the right number of refillable cartridges for 3880 but they'd packed 8 instead of 9 syringes.

And as I was putting the chips together today and found that one of the refillable cartridges is defective – loose pin fell out of reset chip. I hope Wells can deal with this by the time the ink arrives! Trying to print a book called Darkscapes, and I figured I should use the new deeper-black inkset for that.

K

 

[Calzone]

Thx, Cal, but no problem finding the posts themselves. Main whsle source is Chicago Screws. I guess we have something different in mind – I was asking if you were using the screwpost binder kits with covers that give a finished-looking result, or at least finished enough for a mock-up.

Perhaps say more about what you're making? You want to make a book three inches thick, of prints on fine art photo paper? When Steidl prints something like that, they make it in 2 or 3 volumes so you can carry it and open it!

Kirk

PS, I'm trying to follow you into Piezo Pro but am encountering obstacles. Getting started is difficult bcz they don't have a simple/sensible list of what makes up a 'starter kit.' They should offer this for 3xxx. 4xxx, and 7xxx printers?

Also some little supply problems: Found out when unpacking that I had the right number of refillable cartridges for 3880 but they'd packed 8 instead of 9 syringes.

And as I was putting the chips together today and found that one of the refillable cartridges is defective – loose pin fell out of reset chip. I hope Wells can deal with this by the time the ink arrives! Trying to print a book called Darkscapes, and I figured I should use the new deeper-black inkset for that.

K

Kirk,

Wells is a good guy, and any difficulties I ever had were either handled by Wells, Dana or Walker. The support is outstanding.

If you need extra syringes PM me. I have mucho.

I have found the 3880 to be ideal as my smaller printer. Mine is now three years old, and it got heavily used. Lately I have been printing less, but I still find the time to print every 3-4 days. It seems like this is a reasonable minimum.

As far as avoiding clogging I run a humidifier in my 1-bedroom apartment at 60% humidity. For my skin, to preserve musical instruments, and to help keep my print head moist a humidifier during the winter helps a lot.

I also clean my capping station at least once a month. This involves wiping the wiper with Q-tips wetted with Piezoflush. I also Q-tip the gasket around the perimeter of the capping station that seals against the print head. Then there is this dabbing with small folded pieces of wetted paper towel (wetted with Piezoflush) to remove ink buildup on the capping station bedding.

If I am printing heavily (more than a box of 17x22 a month) I tend to do this every two weeks because the buildup can become great and it is much easier to clean more often than deal with a big buildup.

Every other week I check my levels and gently shake my carts to keep the pigment from settling.

The only time I had difficulties with clogging and had to do power cleans was when I was printing K7 in batches where I first made say 6-8 prints by laying down shades of black one night, and then a day later did the gloss overcoat. If you know K7 this is a bad idea because the print head gets exposed to a lot of airtime.

The only other times I had to do power cleans to get a perfect nozzle check is if I left my printer unused for over a week. Sometimes I got a good nozzle check, but sometimes not a perfect one. Pretty sure if I just printed it would of cleared itself, but I don't work that way.

Also you will figure out what you need to do for yourself. Also know that for nozzle checks you can use plain cheap copy paper.

I know you will like the deep blacks. The blacks and shadows are so rich. Basically the blacks are crazy, and there is no doubt that you have not seen blacks like this. Hope you have a calibrated monitor. Lower the brightness to suck out the contrast, and view only in a dimmed room.

It took me a while to notice that my calibrated EIZO dimmed down to 80 Lux in a darken room could not display all the shadow detail. Know that you can print what you cannot see.

I know from seeing you on this forum that you are a more experienced printer than me. My digital skills are rather limited to LR5, but I only need basic skills that are rather primitive. My only true assets are a good eye and a lot of experience making good negatives with a vast appreciation for medium and large format IQ.

If you send me you e-mail I will forward you a newsletter from Piezography. It promotes workshops that will be given, but it does supply the big picture of how advance and refined this system has become. I myself am intimidated by the next level which is buying a I1 Pro to calibrate my entire system and have the capability to create my own custom curves and custom paper profiles. My friend Scott who has posted here recommends that I take a workshop, and that is how he became so advanced.

Also know that if anyone else is interested in the big picture of the current state of the art just PM me with you e-mail and I will forward you the e-mail I received.

All I know that PP is faster and more convenient than K7, and the way I use the split tone is I like a big transition in the mids that is broad, and I really love the space the splitone creates.

For those that know the old Piezography, understand that now it is more streamlined, and one no longer has to data mine like I first had to. Things are less involved and less complicated than the old days.

I'm pretty sure that I can create a really pro level cover because I took a bookbinding workshop with Susan Mills, a great book artist. My concerns are the hinge near my book's spine. The Canson paper I use does not take to folding, and ideally I might want the page to lay flat, so I might want to do something elegant to allow my large page to lay flat.

Also in my case I think the glossy might be more durable to the handling. The Gloss optomizer allows me to spit or drool on the print to no ill effect, and I would deem the glossy print more durable and harder to damage. The purpose of this book BTW is to present my wok in an organized manner, but also it is a log because the reverse of the print surface is the file number and settings used. For me this is kind of a workbook to help me get organized. The work is really impressive though.

Cal

 

[thompsonks]

Many thx for being so helpful!

Yes, I could use a couple of extra syringes. Wells says they send out only 8 with the 9-ink cartridges and want the user to double up on what he called the two 'basic' blacks. This confused me, bcz I assume MK and PK are the 'basic' ones, and I know from making mistakes that these inks act so differently on different surfaces. So I'd hate to let them mix. If you'll PM me a Paypal address our send it directly to thompsonkirk at hotmail dot com, I'm happy to cover costs!

Also Yes, I've been getting some announcements from Inkjetmall but may not have the particular e-mail you mentioned, so I'd like to see that too.

I imagine a number of photographers will give the new Pro inset a try, and it would be nice if this little blog-on-a-thread became a place to look for people's reactions to it – something more casual than the Piezography Forum itself?

Thx again,

Kirk

 

[walkerblackwell]

When filling these carts, you can actually simply use 2 syringes.

"Pro" tip:

Buy 2 60mL syringe from IJM.

Start with GCO (or GO for K7). Put the 3880 cartridge vertical so the fill hole is facing up.

Pull the syringe plunger out entirely.

Put the syringe into the fill hole (it will fit snug).

Fill the syringe to 55mL from the bottle. Let it just sit there and it will slowly and evenly fill the cartridge with ink.

Pull the syringe from the cart, plug the fill hole, tap the syringe on the edge of the sink (it's ok if there are a few drops of ink) and then do the same for Light Grey Cool, then Medium Grey Cool, and Dark Grey Cool, and MK.

Use the second syringe for LG Warm, MG Warm, and DG Warm, and PK.

If a drop or so of a lighter shade is present in the fill of a darker shade it's fine.

best,
Walker

 

[Calzone]

Many thx for being so helpful!

Yes, I could use a couple of extra syringes. Wells says they send out only 8 with the 9-ink cartridges and want the user to double up on what he called the two 'basic' blacks. This confused me, bcz I assume MK and PK are the 'basic' ones, and I know from making mistakes that these inks act so differently on different surfaces. So I'd hate to let them mix. If you'll PM me a Paypal address our send it directly to thompsonkirk at hotmail dot com, I'm happy to cover costs!

Also Yes, I've been getting some announcements from Inkjetmall but may not have the particular e-mail you mentioned, so I'd like to see that too.

I imagine a number of photographers will give the new Pro inset a try, and it would be nice if this little blog-on-a-thread became a place to look for people's reactions to it – something more casual than the Piezography Forum itself?

Thx again,

Kirk

Kirk,

On my 3880 I do not print with matte black, that first cart all the way to the left gets loaded with Piezoflush and then more or less is forgotten about. Understand that I only print glossy.

I found that labeling all the carts with the ink shade and slot number avoids and helps prevent any mistakes.

Also every other week I tend to check my ink levels, and at that time I gently aggitate the carts to make sure the pigment does not settle out of suspension.

BTW PP is a lot less work than K-7. Very well engineered and so turn key.

My PM is coming...

Cal

 

[Calzone]

Yesterday refilled my carts. It seems I drain the Gloss Optimizer quickly and every other week I have to at least refill the cart. Anyone ordering PP that is printing glossy should double up on the Gloss Optimizer.

My latest prints are of one of my neighbors in East Harlem who happens to be a very old man. He is kinda like the Sentinal of East 101st Street and sets up a chair on the street where I live.

On two occasions I shot him: one is with a 50 Lux-R "E60" wide open that displays this wonderful sharpness, softness, and bokeh; and the other was with the new 50 Lux-SL the AF lens stopped down to F5.0 that captures this old man in the shadows framed by a run down doorway.

The man's skin is like leather and is weathered, so it is honest to say that he has a "Landscape-Face" that is full of detail. Anyways he shows a lot of dignity, it is apparent that he has had a hard life, and there is this humility that is ever present.

The doorway shot was a grabbed shot with my manual exposure set for street light, but the old man lurked in the shadows and was underexposed. I ended up making several different prints trying to extract the most detail, but in the end because the print was mostly blacks I eventually sucked out as much warmth as possible when setting my splitone for my best print.

The backdrop is urban decay, peeling paint, and weathered wood. My subject stands like a Madona wearing a hoodie which is mirrored in a sticker of a Madona on the rundown door.

I was really surprised by how warm the Canson Baryta paper is by itself.

For those who own a Monochrom or an SL the files from these cameras do very well and seem like a match made in heaven. The results are stunning.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

I got solicited for used/empty P-X000 carts by Jon Cone (with chips).

Jon Cone is likely the most stubborn man I ever have known besides my dad who is now deceased. If anyone can figure out a work around to Epson's lock down on using OEM inks only I would place my bet on Jon Cone.

So it seems that these worthless empty used carts are of strategic value to Piezography development, and rather than throw away these otherwise useless spent carts there is now a program to recycle these carts for a better good via a pre-paid mailer from Piezography.

PM me for the e-mail.

Go-Jon-go.

Cal

 

[Glenn2]

Good to know Cal. I've got about ten 3880 empties saved in case I decide to go the route you have. I still print a mix of colour and B&W so will probably stay with Epson OEM inks for a while yet.

Is there anything that should be done with the empty cartridges after they're taken out, like a rinse?

Glenn

 

[Calzone]

Good to know Cal. I've got about ten 3880 empties saved in case I decide to go the route you have. I still print a mix of colour and B&W so will probably stay with Epson OEM inks for a while yet.

Is there anything that should be done with the empty cartridges after they're taken out, like a rinse?

Glenn

Glenn,

The 3880 OEM Epson carts themselves are not refillable, but the part that is useful and needed are the chips.

I had to canniblize the chips from my color inkset to set up the refillable carts that I bought from InkJetMall (Jon Cone). These chips get reset everytime you turn on your printer and will always measure a full cart, so checking the levels every other week is kinda required.

I will mention that the refillable carts from InkJetMall are made to Jon Cone's specs, and other refillable carts are not necessarily of the same quality. Also know that for printing color it makes sense to buy Cone Color inks and fill refillable carts. The chips are color specific so if you decide to separate the chips from the carts make sure you label them to avoid chaos.

While the cost savings in Printing Piezography B&W is only minor, the cost savings of using Cone Color is major. Perhaps you can load an entire color inkset for about $80.00 excluding the purchase price of refillable carts.

At times the chips do go south, so having spares is a good idea. Over the past 2 1/2 years I have blown out two chips.

The P-X000 carts I mentioned above that get recycled to Jon Cone via his postage is for developing the work around so that third party inks can be used, and to prevent the price gouging from Epson. Know that the Cone Color inks are encapsulated, just like the Epson OEM, and that Cone Color and Epson inks can be blended because the formulas are compatable.

The really big deal for color printers is using the new photo black developed for Piezography Pro in a color inkset for the darkest black available. This is a mucho big deal. The new black is called PK-HD. You have not seen black like this.

Anyways I started printing with files from my Monochrom, but now I also own and shoot a Leica SL, so eventually I'll be doing the Cone Color with PK-HD for my black. I believe the curves are already developed and are free downloads as "Canned Profiles."

In my case my 7800 that currently is being stored with Piezoflush will eventually become my dedicated B&W printer, and my 3880 will be my Cone Color/PK-HD printer for color printing. Perhaps purchasing a second 3880 would be a smart move while they are still available refurbished by Epson.

BTW it does not make sense to share a printer by changing inksets. It is better sense to have a dedicated B&W printer and a separate dedicated color printer.

All the best.

Cal

 

[thompsonks]

I've been printing for several weeks now with the new Piezo Pro inkset and find it offers lovely gradations in the midtones. Its downside is a magenta ('pink') cast on many papers including HPR. Prints are quite rich on Harman Gloss Baryta and Baryta Warmtone, though just slightly 'pinker' than I'd prefer.

I've had better results from the standpoint of neutral tones on Moab Entrada than on HPR. Plan to try Moab Juniper as my glossy surface, but haven't got around to it yet.

Definitely an improvement over Epson ABW – less contrast (unless you add some), broader midtones, and better modulation of highlights. Not as much difference as I expected in shadows.

Kirk

 

[Calzone]

I've been printing for several weeks now with the new Piezo Pro inkset and find it offers lovely gradations in the midtones. Its downside is a magenta ('pink') cast on many papers including HPR. Prints are quite rich on Harman Gloss Baryta and Baryta Warmtone, though just slightly 'pinker' than I'd prefer.

I've had better results from the standpoint of neutral tones on Moab Entrada than on HPR. Plan to try Moab Juniper as my glossy surface, but haven't got around to it yet.

Definitely an improvement over Epson ABW – less contrast (unless you add some), broader midtones, and better modulation of highlights. Not as much difference as I expected in shadows.

Kirk

Kirk,

In regard to shadows, it was an epiphany for me to realize that I can print what I can't see, even in a darkened room with an Eizo dimmed down to 80 Lux. Basically I can print what I can't see. Understand the shadow detail is in the file, but you can't see it even on a dimmed calibrated monitor in a darkened room.

I think most people do not realize all the detail that is there, especially people who print with a lot of contrast.

Piezography has its own look, but I feel most people never discover and print over all the shadow detail by enhancing the contrast too much. Also I don't understand how you can say that there is not a big jump in shadow detail when you have the blackest black on the planet in the PP inkset to anchor your contrast.

One really has to think about large format photography when printing PP. The tonal range is not what you are use to. You already discovered how the mids opened up, but I'm telling you there is an entire universe in the shadows that you have not discovered yet. Think large format photography...

Cal

 

[thompsonks]

I can't help wondering if you're excited about what was there all along.

On your monitor: Are you soft-proofing? This isn't very accurate with PPro inkset yet, because they haven't made soft-proof profiles for it! But you can get a good approximation by going through the K7 profiles and picking the one that best matches, on your monitor, a stepwedge and a print under your standard viewing light. If you do this carefully, you shouldn't be surprised by shadow detail you couldn't see - you'll be tolerably close to WYSIWYG. On my monitor with a well-chosen soft-proof profile I can see the 1% shadow separations on the Proof of Piezography file.

If you want to see shadow detail even more exactly, download Tony Kuyper's luminosity masks. He has BW Zone Masks that let you look into the shadows at discrete levels and expand or contract them (though his zones don't have the same densities as the Ansel Adams Zone System). I've heard there's also something like this in Silver Efex, but I don't use it.

In your prints: If you've printed a good set of stepwedges and 'Proof of Piezography' files, you should have been seeing 1% increments or at least 2% increments of shadow and highlight detail in these prints from the start. If you manage your histograms carefully, there's no missing or invisible shadow detail, it's simply where you choose to place it, subject to DMax of your paper of choice.

As to the 'planet's deepest black,' IMO this is measurable more than it's visible, because our addled brains tend to 'normalize' by taking the darkest tone they see to be max black, and the paper base to be max white. If you compare ABW and Piezo prints on the same paper by side, the difference in density is hard to see. And the same if you compare two Piezo-printed fine-art gloss baryta papers side by side: you can see how different coatings and profiles distribute the tonal range a bit differently, but DMax is usually pretty close and sometimes within the margin of measurement error. Also for any two top-notch matte fine-art matte papers: for example, HPR measures deeper DMax than Entrada Natural - but the difference is visually slight and the PPro inkset 'plays better,' tonally, with Entrada.

So I remain convinced that despite the pride and hype about measurably deeper blacks, the real Piezo advantage is the curves that distribute tones so gently and accurately through the entire range from 0 to 255 (and everywhere in between, where we see continuous tone). Almost all other profiles, even custom ones, are made from color charts with a limited number of shades of gray. And Epson ABW profiles seem to be non-linear by design, so you'll be impressed by a 'snappy' print. ABW seems to elevate the midrange and to exaggerate local contrast or 'clarity,' at the expense of smooth overall tonality; and IMO this is what makes PPro printing worth the fuss-and-bother of fooling around with the cartridges. I still knock out ABW contact sheets and workprints for editing, but I never expect to make another book or exhibition print that way.

If ABW was the comparison you had in mind, then we're more or less on the same track - though I'd been able to nurse very good shadow detail out of it. However it's the overall look of my initial piezo prints that's impressing me.

Kirk

 

[Calzone]

I can't help wondering if you're excited about what was there all along.

On your monitor: Are you soft-proofing? This isn't very accurate with PPro inkset yet, because they haven't made soft-proof profiles for it! But you can get a good approximation by going through the K7 profiles and picking the one that best matches, on your monitor, a stepwedge and a print under your standard viewing light. If you do this carefully, you shouldn't be surprised by shadow detail you couldn't see - you'll be tolerably close to WYSIWYG. On my monitor with a well-chosen soft-proof profile I can see the 1% shadow separations on the Proof of Piezography file.

If you want to see shadow detail even more exactly, download Tony Kuyper's luminosity masks. He has BW Zone Masks that let you look into the shadows at discrete levels and expand or contract them (though his zones don't have the same densities as the Ansel Adams Zone System). I've heard there's also something like this in Silver Efex, but I don't use it.

In your prints: If you've printed a good set of stepwedges and 'Proof of Piezography' files, you should have been seeing 1% increments or at least 2% increments of shadow and highlight detail in these prints from the start. If you manage your histograms carefully, there's no missing or invisible shadow detail, it's simply where you choose to place it, subject to DMax of your paper of choice.

As to the 'planet's deepest black,' IMO this is measurable more than it's visible, because our addled brains tend to 'normalize' by taking the darkest tone they see to be max black, and the paper base to be max white. If you compare ABW and Piezo prints on the same paper by side, the difference in density is hard to see. And the same if you compare two Piezo-printed fine-art gloss baryta papers side by side: you can see how different coatings and profiles distribute the tonal range a bit differently, but DMax is usually pretty close and sometimes within the margin of measurement error. Also for any two top-notch matte fine-art matte papers: for example, HPR measures deeper DMax than Entrada Natural - but the difference is visually slight and the PPro inkset 'plays better,' tonally, with Entrada.

So I remain convinced that despite the pride and hype about measurably deeper blacks, the real Piezo advantage is the curves that distribute tones so gently and accurately through the entire range from 0 to 255 (and everywhere in between, where we see continuous tone). Almost all other profiles, even custom ones, are made from color charts with a limited number of shades of gray. And Epson ABW profiles seem to be non-linear by design, so you'll be impressed by a 'snappy' print. ABW seems to elevate the midrange and to exaggerate local contrast or 'clarity,' at the expense of smooth overall tonality; and IMO this is what makes PPro printing worth the fuss-and-bother of fooling around with the cartridges. I still knock out ABW contact sheets and workprints for editing, but I never expect to make another book or exhibition print that way.

If ABW was the comparison you had in mind, then we're more or less on the same track - though I'd been able to nurse very good shadow detail out of it. However it's the overall look of my initial piezo prints that's impressing me.

Kirk

Kirk,

Thanks for your very helpful and thoughtful response. I have followed some of your posts over the years, know you are a much more experienced printer than me, and I have been anxious to hear your spin on PP.

Also I am more or less using the canned profiles and like you suggest I am using K-7 profiles to get an approximation in my soft proofing which only goes so far. It seems that the next level is calibrating one's entire system with this $150.00 Jon Cone software, buying an I1 Pro, and printing targets. Pretty much one then can profile their own papers and create accurate soft proofing.

My friend Scott suggests attending one of Jon Cones workshops to get to that level, but that is about $1.5K.

I can see the difference in the blacks and shadows between my K7 and PP prints from the same files. To me the PP displays more shadow detail, but like you say it kinda is where you set it because with PP I tend to do contrast differently than how I do K-7.

The differences you explain between Epson OEM and PP make sense to me. My friend Joe and I have played around comparing prints of the same file between the two systems. Each has its own look.

Joe who has a second 3880 dedicated for PP says the level of control and learning how to take advantage of the flexibility is the real challenge. Like you say it is the smooth range of tone...

Cal

 

[thompsonks]

Re: soft proofing: While I had no difficulty with matte papers, I've been printing this week on gloss baryta surfaces, and prints are consistently darker than any of the gloss icc profiles can compensate for. When you print on glossy papers, what profiles/curves do you use?

Kirk