kl122002
Kevin H.Y. Lui
Hi all,
I want to try Leica but I don't have enough $$ to buy a M-camera. I have never used a Leica camera or SM-type camera before. What do I need to check and know when I purchase them? Is there any problem that likely to occur and any points that I need to special care?
Meanwhile, which SM camera has a lowest price and best for a newbie? And how can I know whether I am having a fake or not? I don't want a fake or copy.
Thank you.
KL
I want to try Leica but I don't have enough $$ to buy a M-camera. I have never used a Leica camera or SM-type camera before. What do I need to check and know when I purchase them? Is there any problem that likely to occur and any points that I need to special care?
Meanwhile, which SM camera has a lowest price and best for a newbie? And how can I know whether I am having a fake or not? I don't want a fake or copy.
Thank you.
KL
tripod
Well-known
Check the contrast of the RF patch.
FPjohn
Well-known
IIIc
IIIc
http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/rangefinder.html It is a good idea to handle a SM Leica before purchasing one.
I agree that a good example of a IIIc would be a good choice. Budget $100-200 for a CLA and acquire a taste for add on finders.
yours
FPJ
IIIc
http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/rangefinder.html It is a good idea to handle a SM Leica before purchasing one.
I agree that a good example of a IIIc would be a good choice. Budget $100-200 for a CLA and acquire a taste for add on finders.
yours
FPJ
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
A IIIc is a good choice and they aren't overly expensive but if you could stretch it I would go for a IIIf for maybe $100.00 more ... they are a far nicer camera. I have sold two through the classifieds here for around $300.00 to $350.00 each and both had been freshly CLA'd. Another really nice SM is the Leica II ... I have a black one which cost me just under $200.00 and another $80.00 for a CLA from Youxin Ye ... it's my favourite screwmount user even with it's limited shutter speeds and rather squinty finder!
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Unless the name "Leica" is a must, you may be better off with a Cosina/Voigtlander Bessa.
Meleica
Well-known
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BillP
Rangefinder General
My first LTM was a IIIc. The separate view and rangefinder took some getting used to after years of using Ms, but there is something about the old Barnacks that gets into your blood. I had mine CLA'd and it made a big difference to both the shutter reliability and the clarity of the rangefinder.
The surprise came when I subsequently bought a IID, actually a I that was factory upgraded in 1934. The IID is slightly smaller, with a limited range of shutter speeds from 1/20 to 1/500, and with the range and viewfinder windows set further apart. I also had it CLA'd and it came back transformed. It has become my carry-everywhere camera, in preference to the IIIc. The difference is in the handling - I actually prefer the wider spacing of the range and viewfinder windows, finding it more "positive" to swap from one to the other. I also don't miss the lower shutter speeds - with 400CN I rarely run out of light.
There can be only one first choice of lens for the old Barnacks - a 5cm f3.5 Elmar. That said, you can of course use the excellent modern Voigtlander lenses as well.
As has already been said, check for shutter speeds and the state of the viewfinder. Check also that the shutter curtains are in good condition and are not buckled or holed. However, remember that there is not much that cannot be fixed by a good technician. There is a reason why these cameras have survived so long.
One final comment - there is a big difference between Ms and LTMs, a bit like driving a car from the 1930s and the 1960s. The basic controls are the same, but handling and practical usage is quite different.
Regards,
Bill
The surprise came when I subsequently bought a IID, actually a I that was factory upgraded in 1934. The IID is slightly smaller, with a limited range of shutter speeds from 1/20 to 1/500, and with the range and viewfinder windows set further apart. I also had it CLA'd and it came back transformed. It has become my carry-everywhere camera, in preference to the IIIc. The difference is in the handling - I actually prefer the wider spacing of the range and viewfinder windows, finding it more "positive" to swap from one to the other. I also don't miss the lower shutter speeds - with 400CN I rarely run out of light.
There can be only one first choice of lens for the old Barnacks - a 5cm f3.5 Elmar. That said, you can of course use the excellent modern Voigtlander lenses as well.
As has already been said, check for shutter speeds and the state of the viewfinder. Check also that the shutter curtains are in good condition and are not buckled or holed. However, remember that there is not much that cannot be fixed by a good technician. There is a reason why these cameras have survived so long.
One final comment - there is a big difference between Ms and LTMs, a bit like driving a car from the 1930s and the 1960s. The basic controls are the same, but handling and practical usage is quite different.
Regards,
Bill
brachal
Refrigerated User
Barnacks take some getting used to, but I love mine. You could buy something from Sherry Krauter http://www.sherrykrauter.com ... she is well regarded as a repair person, so anything you get from her should be in top working order. I bought my IIIf from KEH. It was rated EXC, and other than one tiny, tiny chip in the vulcanite it looks like new. I did end up sending it to Youxin Ye for CLA (shutter capping on 500 and 1000), and now it works and feels like new too. I wouldn't worry too much about getting a fake unless you buy from ebay.
landsknechte
Well-known
A IIIc is a good choice and they aren't overly expensive but if you could stretch it I would go for a IIIf for maybe $100.00 more ... they are a far nicer camera. I have sold two through the classifieds here for around $300.00 to $350.00 each and both had been freshly CLA'd. Another really nice SM is the Leica II ... I have a black one which cost me just under $200.00 and another $80.00 for a CLA from Youxin Ye ... it's my favourite screwmount user even with it's limited shutter speeds and rather squinty finder!
Other than the flash sync, what's the difference between a IIIc and a IIIf?
David Murphy
Veteran
Good ones of all sorts come up for sale here at regular intervals. Try to get one that's a proven shooter with no light leaks and good shutter curtains. There are some for sale right now in the Classified section. I'd not worry about exactly which model, they are all top-notch cameras if the condition is good.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Nothing.......just small unimportant things like the bottom plate latch for example (that`s comparing the post 1946 Leica IIIC for example)
The pre 1946 Leica IIIC`s have a much better build quality then the first IIIF`s but, sadly now these fall under what can be classified as a "collectors camera" and crazy people drive the prices up sometimes, they are also harder to find in good condition as other era Leica cameras
The (1947 to 1950) cameras often suffer from contaminated chrome plating, with rust/peel/pitting ugly chrome is the outcome on these cameras - but other then outward apperance these cameras are great users (and the best buys in vintage Leica`s)
The (1951 to1953) cameras suffer from bad shutter curtain material and defective beam splitters/mirrors (weak contrast in viewfinder) almost ALL of these era cameras need an expensive CLA, with new curtains etc. etc.
Post 1954 IIIF`s (with self timers) were among the best of the 1950`s Screw Mount Leicas, the (1956) 800xxx+ series IIIFRDST`s are the finest *Leica IIIF w/IIIG Curtains* and also the most deseriable - but these are expensive when if ever they show up for sale......
Best bet is to find a $300 clean already CLA`d Leica IIIC or IIIFBD here in the classifieds.......
Good Luck and Happy Shooting!
Tom
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kl122002
Kevin H.Y. Lui
I planed to spend not more than $ 350 to buy one and I don't mind the cosmetic condition.Would that be possible?
IIIc and IIIa look nice , but what is the main differences between IIIa and IIIc? They looked the similar. When I was searching in flea-bay, I notice the shutter curtain of IIIc is red but not black. Why?
Will that be difficult if the camera came with image alignment problem in the RF and I have to adjust it by DIY?
IIIc and IIIa look nice , but what is the main differences between IIIa and IIIc? They looked the similar. When I was searching in flea-bay, I notice the shutter curtain of IIIc is red but not black. Why?
Will that be difficult if the camera came with image alignment problem in the RF and I have to adjust it by DIY?
John Shriver
Well-known
There's a whole book by Thomas Tomosy on DIY repair of Leica cameras. That said, while it's a simple camera, it's not a recommended starting point due to value, and it takes high mechanical intuition to do any camera repairs.
The primary user difference of the IIIa is that the viewfinder and rangefinder windows are further apart, and closing the case tends to reset the rangefinder diopter setting. Internally, the IIIa is built up out of brass stampings, where the IIIc is based on a casting, keeping it more accurate with lenses demanding accurate focusing. For the technician, it's easier to adjust the top shutter speeds on the IIIc.
Red curtains, if factory authentic, are for obsessive collectors, yet probably are no longer functional -- which doesn't matter to the collectors obsessing about them.
The primary user difference of the IIIa is that the viewfinder and rangefinder windows are further apart, and closing the case tends to reset the rangefinder diopter setting. Internally, the IIIa is built up out of brass stampings, where the IIIc is based on a casting, keeping it more accurate with lenses demanding accurate focusing. For the technician, it's easier to adjust the top shutter speeds on the IIIc.
Red curtains, if factory authentic, are for obsessive collectors, yet probably are no longer functional -- which doesn't matter to the collectors obsessing about them.
thomasw_
Well-known
I picked up a perfectly functioning IIIf RD in the classifieds here for 240 loonies a couple of weeks ago. Cosmetically it is a beauty that I plan to give to my son as a present. Be patient, the Leica IIs and IIIs come up quite often. The trick is learning a way to load it that works well for you. I have some suggestions on this matter and if you'd care to read them, feel free to send me a note, or just do search in the LTM forum. IIRC there is an entire thread or sticky on the topic with various pearls of wisdom. Mechanically the Barnacks have a finish and build quality that must be experienced to appreciate.
brachal
Refrigerated User
$250 to $350 seems to be the range at KEH for a bgn or exc III. KEH is pretty conservative, so a bgn camera is probably going to be very nice. Plan on about $100 for a cla and you're set. I recommend Youxin Ye. Of course these numbers don't include a lens.
KEH does have a LN- IIIf RDST for over $900. I've never seen a IIIf listed that high before.
KEH does have a LN- IIIf RDST for over $900. I've never seen a IIIf listed that high before.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
There`s $125 to $150 "ugly" 1947 to 1950 Leica IIIC`s on evilbay ALMOST every week..........just look for cameras that are pitting and peeling, you can sometimes even find a Elmar or Summitar lens still on them, if you buy them from a private
(non photographic) person on evilbay - and most "ugly" camera auctions stay reasonable at best with the price
A Youxin Ye CLA is the way to go so far I`ve heard, you could get away if your lucky with a camera in that total cost of $350 or less range very easy this way
I also have a friend on the west coast who`s just starting his CLA biz too, so there`s going to be another person doing really fine work, my IIIC K Grey is there now for CLA and Vulcanite repair, awaiting her return soon
Tom
(non photographic) person on evilbay - and most "ugly" camera auctions stay reasonable at best with the price
A Youxin Ye CLA is the way to go so far I`ve heard, you could get away if your lucky with a camera in that total cost of $350 or less range very easy this way
I also have a friend on the west coast who`s just starting his CLA biz too, so there`s going to be another person doing really fine work, my IIIC K Grey is there now for CLA and Vulcanite repair, awaiting her return soon
Tom
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kl122002
Kevin H.Y. Lui
Thank you very much for the information. BTW, some websites said it is common that lossing silver in the mirror prism. Will there be any effect in focusing?
landsknechte
Well-known
In a purely mechanical sense, no. The image you see in the rangefinder will get dimmer as the silvering degrades, and it will become harder for you to focus the camera if that happens.
JohanV
another GAS victim
And there I was thinking an SM camera was a camera owned by Max Mosley...
kl122002
Kevin H.Y. Lui
I just wondering whether leica SM have close up equipmenrr like the Proximeter for Prominent. I like using the proximeter for taking close up although it is not easy due to the light reflection from the glass of proximeter.