Post processing and editing are killing my enjoyment of photography … (the PP blues)

[WDPictures]

Heard Michael Kenna give a talk once and he said his editing/processing is usually about one year behind his shooting schedule. Doubt he takes that long for his party photos though.

 

[Keith]

Keith,

Can you outline your post processing sequence/methodology for us? There's almost always an easier way to do things...

Hi Gavin,

I've been using ACDSee Pro 3 which I really like ... I know the software inside out and went straight back to it after trying Lightroom for a while which I found quite difficult to familiarise myself with.

It has batch processing which is good but of course the variation in the images I come home with from these gallery openings makes batch processing marginally useful.

I usuallly convert my files to tiffs before working on them due to the fact that post processing them in NEF format really slows my computer down ... I need better graphic capability, more memory and more processing power in my current PC I realise but at the moment I have to live with what I have!

If I was out shooting in broad daylight with the Nikon life would be simple because the files in these conditions need little work but having to shoot to maintain the highlights (video screens) and then recovering what detail I can from the shadows seems to have to be done on an image to image basis ... each file has infuences from different light sources and it changes by the second as I'm shooting. Occasionally I'll get four or five in a row that I can apply the same values to but this the exception rather than the rule.

Someone suggested shooting less and being more selective during the process which I did actually do last time and I came home with a third of the shots that I normally do. Chimping does have it's value and I think I need to do that more ... it doesn't take long to review what I've just shot and decide whether it's going to be of any use to me when I get home.

Some great advice in this thread so far by the way ... I thank you! 🙂

 

[FrankS]

Unless one is a pro photographer with clients to satisfy, just choose the workflow that makes you happy and gives you satisfaction. You have to decide if the mpney you are making is "worth" it.

 

[MikeL]

Keith, one thing you might try is turning off the 'internet critiques' in your head (shadow detail, blown highlights, missed focus). First, does the photo work for you and your client? Then post process the hopefuls.

 

[robklurfield]

I'll second that.

Keith: Your post led me to believe you were doing these two jobs as a commercial endeavor. Now you certainly do not have to dislike your job, but this is a job is it not? Maybe I am not catching on. I just cannot imagine anyone loving photography so much that they would enjoy shooting and editing events in a manner to please someone else.

 

[robklurfield]

I need exactly that. Oh, wait. Frank meant in PP not in life. Darn.

I'm not going to start liquifying fat people and covering bald spots unless I'm on the clock.

 

[wgerrard]

Post-processing cries out for automation. Not necessarily automation that ingests a batch of files and spits out finished images, per some personalized preset preferences. (Although there's a place for that.) But, I find myself doing many of the same things over and over, in the same order. Anytime humans do the same thing over and over on a computer, that an opportunity for automation.

My normal post-processing load is so small that it seldom becomes a burden. The downside of that is I don't get enough experience to polish my chops or to settle on a standard approach.

 

[Turtle]

I think the key is to reduce the number of final images. If you tell a client that you will produce fifty images from a public event they will say OK. If you say you will produce 25, they will probably still say OK.

I do wonder when I see wedding photographers that produce finished albums of 100-200 images! Less is definitely more... for you and the client.

Push on through this lot and then perhaps decide whether this is the sort of shooting you want to do in future. And perhaps take a break away from cameras altogether for a week or two?

 

[DNG]

Post-processing cries out for automation. Not necessarily automation that ingests a batch of files and spits out finished images, per some personalized preset preferences. (Although there's a place for that.) But, I find myself doing many of the same things over and over, in the same order. Anytime humans do the same thing over and over on a computer, that an opportunity for automation.

My normal post-processing load is so small that it seldom becomes a burden. The downside of that is I don't get enough experience to polish my chops or to settle on a standard approach.

Yes, and with ACDSee Pro 3, if all the or most of the files are similar in density, etc... PP one, and there is a global control to apply all the "last used" adjustments (on the "Develop" side).

@keith
the "gear" between the Develop and Edit tabs, OR you can use the "gear" to the right and under the Develop and Edit tab, OR, EACH adjustment has a "gear" that has an option to repeat the last action just for that adjustment....

I use those all the time after I have scanned a roll of film... Very good at cutting the time down.

You may use this already though.
Just a thought.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Keith: Your post led me to believe you were doing these two jobs as a commercial endeavor. Now you certainly do not have to dislike your job, but this is a job is it not? Maybe I am not catching on. I just cannot imagine anyone loving photography so much that they would enjoy shooting and editing events in a manner to please someone else.

Amen......work is work...... to some degree at least. I ride Harleys and at one point I thought about getting into the motorcycle business and was warned against it because often when your passion becomes your business you can lose both in the process.

 

[wgerrard]

Yes, and with ACDSee Pro 3, if all the or most of the files are similar in density, etc... PP one, and there is a global control to apply all the "last used" adjustments (on the "Develop" side).

Thanks. I didn't know that. Suppose I ought to check out ACDSee Pro 3.

 

[eddie1960]

I think the key is to reduce the number of final images. If you tell a client that you will produce fifty images from a public event they will say OK. If you say you will produce 25, they will probably still say OK.

I do wonder when I see wedding photographers that produce finished albums of 100-200 images! Less is definitely more... for you and the client.

As mentioned before Wedding photographers employ someone else for chimping and build it in to the fee same with having a second shooter to do all the guest party shots so they can focus on the art. I've done the second shooter thing a couple of times and just handed back the cards he supplied. Nice to walk away at the end of the day. On the other hand I'm shooting one for a friend Sunday and to keep costs down I'm doing the whole thing myself. Fortunately it's a Halloween wedding and will be fun to shoot to make up for the other side. And they want it all done with Film so straight to the pro lab hand in the 25-30 rolls pick up the proofs review, then go back to the lab and do some imacon scans to make a book - if they could all be this way i'd shoot weddings all the time instead of turning them down.

Limit the promised shots as well it simplifies things - i usually go through find enough good shots to meet the commitment then leave the rest for a later time that never seems to come

 

[peter_n]

Several posters have mentioned it but you need automation; a template of saved actions that you can batch apply. I use Photoshop and it's particularly easy to save and run actions in that product. I also bought a dSLR that was a favorite of event photographers so I could use OOC jpeg files so no RAW. I also hate PP work as my "real" work is computer based and the last thing I want in my hobby is more time at the screen. So far it's worked for me...

 

[Damaso]

Why do you think Gary Winogrand died with a couple of thousand undeveloped rolls laying around? I hate editing and post processing too but until you can afford an assistant you're stuck with it. Put on some good music, maybe a finger of good scotch and muddle through!

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Wedding photographers get really good with Lightroom. If you learn the program, you can go through 100's, even thousands, of photos really quickly narrowing down your selection, then process them quickly. It's not as much fun learning software as shooting photos, but in the case of Lightroom (or Photoshop for that matter), taking the time to learn the software is time well spent.

 

[gavinlg]

Wedding photographers get really good with Lightroom. If you learn the program, you can go through 100's, even thousands, of photos really quickly narrowing down your selection, then process them quickly. It's not as much fun learning software as shooting photos, but in the case of Lightroom (or Photoshop for that matter), taking the time to learn the software is time well spent.

100% agreed. I'd cry myself to sleep if I didn't have lightroom.

 

[kevin m]

Wedding photographers get really good with Lightroom.

x3. I watched a friend I shoot with do in an hour what takes me (it seems) an entire weekend. I think it's true that achieving some fluency with computer PP is the key to keeping your sanity. 😛

 

[MatthewThompson]

Same, but Aperture here.

Keith, I'd seriously look at a couple things:

Shutter discipline: especially on film. Shooting an event can be fun, but in the end you have a lot of similar shots. As you do more of this sort of work, you'll be able to pick out the key moments and let the others slide. Your nine rolls might have been four, depending on the event. Last event I shot was six hours and over a thousand people, I delivered just over 100 shots with minimal post due to constant light and camera settings.

Outsource: this is going to sound funny, but outsource the PP to a place that's highly skilled and cheap. India is a great example. You can FTP it and have the work done for a few bucks an hour, mark up the time several hundred percent and pass along the total to your client. Check into personal assistant services and narrow it down to imaging/graphics people from there.

 

[lynnb]

Keith, I know the feeling, I shoot weddings from time to time (and I take along a second shooter) and struggled with the PP until I mastered Lightroom, with the help of Martin Evening's excellent book. It now only takes hours to PP what previously took days or weeks. Definitely worth revisiting and persisting with the learning curve IMHO. It's designed as a workflow tool from the ground up. LR relegates Photoshop to a pixel touchup role.
My workflow is to import all images (LR does this to 2 drives simultaneously - one is backup), delete rejects, delete superfluous files, rename/renumber files, process files by lighting condition groups so develop settings can be copied, crop, export to JPG and burn to disk. With practice the time spent on each file is seconds, not minutes - has to be when there may be 800-1600 initial files.
Album selects get additional pixel work in Photoshop, usually minor touchup on skin and removing unwanted background.
Scanning negs is more time consuming with dust removal - I scan as TIFFs, do global adjustments in LR and then use CS4's healing brush.
Shooting film and then sending it off to a pro lab definitely had its advantages!
Matthew's suggestion of outsourcing sounds like it's worth investigating.
Regards,

 

[mgd711]

This is why I'll never work professionally (not that I'm that good, but never do paid work).

I do photography for myself, if somebody wants to buy or use an image off mine its fine with me but I'll never take money to shoot x, y or z as I've found it totally kills my enjoyment.