xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
This is getting to be like the two camp divide of whether one believes Paul McCartney was replaced with an impostor sometime in late 1966 or not.
Some people see it and some cannot ever see it and they would poke fun at the ones that see it.
Human beings are odd that way.
NickTrop
Veteran
The notion of "mass hysteria" is a ridiculous one. Those who are so quick to ask, "where's you're evidence?" (as they ignore the evidence) are quick to claim "mass hysteria" without evidence.
In my case it wasn't mass hysteria -- and in fact refutes such nonsensical notions, because I had no idea what black triangles were, no knowledge of the Bucks County Wave in 2008, and no knowledge of prior black triangle waves such as the Belgium wave in 1989, where the Belgium airforce scrambled F16's to intercept until well after the fact, and no pre-existing "true believer" biases as it was a topic that I simply devoted zero bandwith to.
And I would counter this baseless claim of "mass hysteria" that those who have witnessed these things (many, many people over many, many years) all describing the same thing, are simply -- like me, describing exactly what they encountered free from "hysteria", mass or otherwise.
Corran
Well-known
According to my EXIF:
D800, 14-24mm @ f/3.5, 30s exposure, ISO 1600.
I was taking a long exposure series, to be combined later, and you can see this object come into frame, then turn and go back out of the frame. Nothing erratic in its flight but I also captured other planes which clearly have the typical blinking light and wing lights and much higher in the sky. Comparatively this light was probably 100x brighter than the planes (likely commercial). I didn't hear a sound as it came by.
In fact here is the entire sequence layered on top of each other. Three frames, so about 1.5 minutes. Just a quick layering w/ no edits hence the slight difference in color/shadow detail:
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I agree with you, that the notion of mass hysteria is a cheap cop-out.
The fact is that there are things in this world or realm that we have no answers to, or we the common hoi-polloi are not made privy to, like top secret man made high technology.
Some folks want to feel comfortable and want to believe everything has a scientific explanation and if there is not one then it is a hoax or a delusion. And heads of governments around the world are honest and forthcoming on everything, on any subject, to their citizens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Gt4crkqWk
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
Okay Nick, here's a photo I took in the early 1970s in Albuquerque. Vivitar 110 camera with color negative film.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
The world is woefully unprepared for actual visitation..
We cant even get along with ourselves..
From the information I've run across..they are sending ufos (mostly robots) here to see whats up...scientific exploration...much like we are beginning to do on Mars etc..no need to risk a live crew..or biological contamination..as their microbes..could wipe this planets life forms completely out as there would be no natural defenses..and visa versa..
Some are more interested in the oceans as they are life forms based on water..some in the air ..some on land..
About 90% of "alien" encounters..esp at night...are just astral dreams..created by the dreamer in sleep..hence the universal big eyed small formless blob like bodies..they see..
The other 10%...well...that bears more looking into..
And most of the "aliens"..are not humanoid based..at all..and might not even be recognized as sentient..as we cant even communicate with whales and dolphins..the other sentient species..on this world..
We cant even get along with ourselves..
From the information I've run across..they are sending ufos (mostly robots) here to see whats up...scientific exploration...much like we are beginning to do on Mars etc..no need to risk a live crew..or biological contamination..as their microbes..could wipe this planets life forms completely out as there would be no natural defenses..and visa versa..
Some are more interested in the oceans as they are life forms based on water..some in the air ..some on land..
About 90% of "alien" encounters..esp at night...are just astral dreams..created by the dreamer in sleep..hence the universal big eyed small formless blob like bodies..they see..
The other 10%...well...that bears more looking into..
And most of the "aliens"..are not humanoid based..at all..and might not even be recognized as sentient..as we cant even communicate with whales and dolphins..the other sentient species..on this world..
FujiLove
Well-known
Yes, you said all that before. But you failed to address any of the questions I asked. I assume this means you are unable to answer them, because you did exactly as I predicted: saw something weird, shouted, “aliens!”, and looked no further for an answer. An answer that wouldn’t be exciting or make you feel as though you had witnessed anything special.
It’s religion, pure and simple, and just as daft.
FujiLove
Well-known
That's very specific information, so you must have some excellent and highly detailed evidence. Please post it so we can all have a look.
NickTrop
Veteran
Let em explain to you what these things are, probably over several posts. This issue I have is that I have studied the most relevant sightings and encounters for 10 years. Most who I discuss this topic with are very ignorant of the subject, relying on "speed of light" arguments they vaguely remember from their HS physics teacher. There is also a great deal of noise in this signal-to-noise ratio (long since debunked cases and assorted hoaxes), which must be filtered, and most don't bother to do. There are many, many "obvious" cases of encounters of UFOs, though they do constitute a small percentage of possibly UFO encounters.
The "smoking gun" UFO case is without question the declassified 2004 Nimitz case that came to light last December. Lt Commander Fravor, the pilot of the fighter jet has gone on media, bravely, many times to state what he video'd and tracked was under intelligent control and not of terrestrial origin. I will not go into the details of this case, but this "Tic Tak"-shaped UFO was observed sporadically for several weeks by the crew of the Nimitz in '04. When the Princeton was nearby doing training maneuvers, and the UFO was spotted again, two fighters were dispatched from the Princeton to investigate, one piloted by Lt Cmdr Fraver. The pilot of the other figthter corroboates Fraver's account, but has been less accessible to the media. Fraver has been outspoken -- seemingly to warn us they're here -- and they most definitely are, have been. This is a recent incident with video, radar, and multiple high credibility witnesses. It happened. And it was released from the vaults of an above top secret Pentagon program to study the phenomenon, a story the New York Times broke last December. The director of that program, Luis Elizando, stated on the record in several televised interviews, "My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone". Incidentally, this is the biggest story in human history. The mass denial (not "hysteria" -- mass "denial") of it is a fascinating trait of human psychology.
They absolutely exist and are monitoring earth. Likely, they monitor all pre-singularity break-away species like man. These species are likely machine "life" and the "UFOs" are not vehicles with "little green men" but the "aliens" themselves. Some thinkers on this topic argue that most intelligent life in the universe is not biological, but has long since shed its frail and short-lived biological substrate and that "biological man" is merely a transitional species. When "we" achieve the technological singularity ("singularity" being a point past which we can not conceive...) through the advent of "recursively self-improving, self-programming conscious general artificial intelligence", this new life form we spawn will either co-exist with us, destroy us (the "hard take-off" scenario), or we ourselves will somehow merge with it. This follows an evolutionary pattern all intelligent species undergo. Our "ape brains" have limits to what we can explain, predict, and control of the matter, energy, and forces in the universe. It can take us so far as a rudimentary understanding of physics, the ability to split the atom, and the ability to create computers. Then, the computers take over.
We are on the cusp of recursively improving self-programming computers -- 25, 50, 100 years away -- a blink of an eye on a historical timescale. These "UFOs" are likely post-technological "Singularity" machine life, and the most commonplace (super) intelligent lifeforms in the universe. We are in our biological "pre-singularity" transitional phase but on our way there now with rapid advances in "narrow AI" (self-driving cars, AlphaGo!) with huge research dollars and resources devoted towards developing "general AI". If one believes -- and there is solid logical basis for such beliefs, that such beings constitute the majority of intelligent life in te universe, then these naively so-called "UFOs" are very common throughout the galaxy and may (because they're immortal or nearly immortal) outnumber biological life by orders of magnitude, having achieved Singularity (and subsequently immortality) long ago in their evolution.
How do they get here? Your HS physics instructor had no clue. Our best physcists have no clue. Why? Such problems transcend the limits our our puny meat-based ape-brains. But such problems do not exceed the limits (if there even is a limit) of conscious, intelligent machine life (the "aliens") or possibly even our very own next generation AI capabilities:
The most complex problem in physics could be solved by machines with brains
https://qz.com/897033/applying-mach...-the-way-to-build-the-first-quantum-computer/
The "smoking gun" UFO case is without question the declassified 2004 Nimitz case that came to light last December. Lt Commander Fravor, the pilot of the fighter jet has gone on media, bravely, many times to state what he video'd and tracked was under intelligent control and not of terrestrial origin. I will not go into the details of this case, but this "Tic Tak"-shaped UFO was observed sporadically for several weeks by the crew of the Nimitz in '04. When the Princeton was nearby doing training maneuvers, and the UFO was spotted again, two fighters were dispatched from the Princeton to investigate, one piloted by Lt Cmdr Fraver. The pilot of the other figthter corroboates Fraver's account, but has been less accessible to the media. Fraver has been outspoken -- seemingly to warn us they're here -- and they most definitely are, have been. This is a recent incident with video, radar, and multiple high credibility witnesses. It happened. And it was released from the vaults of an above top secret Pentagon program to study the phenomenon, a story the New York Times broke last December. The director of that program, Luis Elizando, stated on the record in several televised interviews, "My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone". Incidentally, this is the biggest story in human history. The mass denial (not "hysteria" -- mass "denial") of it is a fascinating trait of human psychology.
They absolutely exist and are monitoring earth. Likely, they monitor all pre-singularity break-away species like man. These species are likely machine "life" and the "UFOs" are not vehicles with "little green men" but the "aliens" themselves. Some thinkers on this topic argue that most intelligent life in the universe is not biological, but has long since shed its frail and short-lived biological substrate and that "biological man" is merely a transitional species. When "we" achieve the technological singularity ("singularity" being a point past which we can not conceive...) through the advent of "recursively self-improving, self-programming conscious general artificial intelligence", this new life form we spawn will either co-exist with us, destroy us (the "hard take-off" scenario), or we ourselves will somehow merge with it. This follows an evolutionary pattern all intelligent species undergo. Our "ape brains" have limits to what we can explain, predict, and control of the matter, energy, and forces in the universe. It can take us so far as a rudimentary understanding of physics, the ability to split the atom, and the ability to create computers. Then, the computers take over.
We are on the cusp of recursively improving self-programming computers -- 25, 50, 100 years away -- a blink of an eye on a historical timescale. These "UFOs" are likely post-technological "Singularity" machine life, and the most commonplace (super) intelligent lifeforms in the universe. We are in our biological "pre-singularity" transitional phase but on our way there now with rapid advances in "narrow AI" (self-driving cars, AlphaGo!) with huge research dollars and resources devoted towards developing "general AI". If one believes -- and there is solid logical basis for such beliefs, that such beings constitute the majority of intelligent life in te universe, then these naively so-called "UFOs" are very common throughout the galaxy and may (because they're immortal or nearly immortal) outnumber biological life by orders of magnitude, having achieved Singularity (and subsequently immortality) long ago in their evolution.
How do they get here? Your HS physics instructor had no clue. Our best physcists have no clue. Why? Such problems transcend the limits our our puny meat-based ape-brains. But such problems do not exceed the limits (if there even is a limit) of conscious, intelligent machine life (the "aliens") or possibly even our very own next generation AI capabilities:
The most complex problem in physics could be solved by machines with brains
https://qz.com/897033/applying-mach...-the-way-to-build-the-first-quantum-computer/
FujiLove
Well-known
I respect the fact you have spent a huge amount of time over a decade researching UFO sightings, but two questions:
1. Did you spend an equal amount of time researching the myriad of things you could have seen that were completely terrestrial?
2. Do you feel your studies were biased towards believing in alien life on Earth due to your unexplained encounter? If so, that bias will have completely ruined any scientific rigour you may have had towards the subject.
I think it's time to stop posting on this thread. I've had a look a few of the YouTube channels posted above and frankly, they're embarrassing.
kuuan
loves old lenses
Fujilove you wanted to have answers, though you had not asked me directly after all it was me who had offered photos showing unidentified, light emitting moving objects.
therefore let me answer, here you go:
the fireballs had been moving at distances of between 20 to 50 meters from me. I'd judge their diameter to have been about 20cm.
Did not report to any authorities.
mostly flat ricefield and trees on a ledge to one side. Next house about 300 meter distance. There had been not any electrical lights visable anywhere as turning on electrical lights during Nyepi night is prohibited
No. During Nyepi night nobody is allowed to roam in the open. Not any official study would get a permission to do any such research during Nyepi night.
no, and not really applicable for my sightings anyway
no, what for? I had zero interest in doing that
no, very much to the contrary. I never have and still don't think of aliens. While witnessing I tried to stay calm and go through any plausible explanation that I could think of but none checked. However that did not make me come up with speculative explanations that I believe in or would try to convince others of. I witnessed the fact and share it with anyone interested, that's all. I have zero interest to try to convince anyone of the existance of these unexplainable fireballs. Generally I rather side with sceptics.
you are completely off the mark!!
I don't see which explanation any of these specialist could come up with that would sound credible to me.
I never mentioned God, Aliens or anything of that kind. I had zero expectations in any of these directions, never had given aliens much thought and don't have any fixed idea about them existing or not. I don't like nor do speculations, but I do take for real what I witness.
While witnessing I had gathered all my mental facilities trying to find an explanation for the phenomenon. I could not find any. What remains is that very clearly I had been observing light emitting balls of about 20cm in diameter flying freely around the ricefield and palm trees at an altitudes in between half a meter to 10 meters off the gound. Since there had been no possible explanations I now must refer to them as unidentified, light emitting balls or also unidentified flying objects.
I am not a believer nor do I speculate. Your points above aim at dismantling the credibility of a witness. You might view me either as being a fraud or crazy. I don't care nor would try to convince you of the contrary.
I simply try to expound truthfully what I witnessed but could not care less who believes what when reading my report and viewing the photos.
therefore let me answer, here you go:
the fireballs had been moving at distances of between 20 to 50 meters from me. I'd judge their diameter to have been about 20cm.
Did not report to any authorities.
mostly flat ricefield and trees on a ledge to one side. Next house about 300 meter distance. There had been not any electrical lights visable anywhere as turning on electrical lights during Nyepi night is prohibited
No. During Nyepi night nobody is allowed to roam in the open. Not any official study would get a permission to do any such research during Nyepi night.
no, and not really applicable for my sightings anyway
no, what for? I had zero interest in doing that
no, very much to the contrary. I never have and still don't think of aliens. While witnessing I tried to stay calm and go through any plausible explanation that I could think of but none checked. However that did not make me come up with speculative explanations that I believe in or would try to convince others of. I witnessed the fact and share it with anyone interested, that's all. I have zero interest to try to convince anyone of the existance of these unexplainable fireballs. Generally I rather side with sceptics.
you are completely off the mark!!
I don't see which explanation any of these specialist could come up with that would sound credible to me.
I never mentioned God, Aliens or anything of that kind. I had zero expectations in any of these directions, never had given aliens much thought and don't have any fixed idea about them existing or not. I don't like nor do speculations, but I do take for real what I witness.
While witnessing I had gathered all my mental facilities trying to find an explanation for the phenomenon. I could not find any. What remains is that very clearly I had been observing light emitting balls of about 20cm in diameter flying freely around the ricefield and palm trees at an altitudes in between half a meter to 10 meters off the gound. Since there had been no possible explanations I now must refer to them as unidentified, light emitting balls or also unidentified flying objects.
I am not a believer nor do I speculate. Your points above aim at dismantling the credibility of a witness. You might view me either as being a fraud or crazy. I don't care nor would try to convince you of the contrary.
I simply try to expound truthfully what I witnessed but could not care less who believes what when reading my report and viewing the photos.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Andreas I share this with you.
I did not want to see something.
Was not looking for it.
I did not previously have an interest nor do I now seek more knowledge of phenomenon.
It happened and I don't see any reason not to tell.
Fujilove seems to believe that if one can not explain something they experience, that it did not happen.
Healthy skepticism is good. Rejection of all anecdotes is foolish.
Get over it! Not everything will be explained in our lifetimes.
kuuan
loves old lenses
Andy yes, I am 100% with you, feel and think exactly the same
NickTrop
Veteran
If you are unfamiliar with the '04 Nimitz case, and the above top secret black money-funded $22M Pentagon program tasked specifically with studying the UFO phenomenon, here is Navy fighter pilor, Lt Cmdr Fraver's, brave account in an interview with (a surprisingly "okay") Tucker Carlson on Fox . He was on the news many times since then essentially saying the same things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHwmWnY4P1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHwmWnY4P1w
retinax
Well-known
The distance is the key point here. In the first pic, they move in front of the palm trees, which are obviously just a few meters away (you write it was a 28 mm lens). It's easy to misjudge the distance of an object of unknown size, especially at night, escpeeeecially if it's visible only intermittently. Ask people who have been at sea at night, trying to avoid collision with other ships. Sometimes near impossible to tell distances. As one needs distance to know size or the other way around, that case is pretty clear. You overestimated their size based on overestimating the distance. Still large for bugs based on that it was behind the palm tree in the first pic, the size of which I don't know, so probably a few meters away. But the stars look pretty large in the pics, which must be due to pixels overflowing or some lens characteristic, that would make the trail in the (unfocused) foreground larger as well. So fireflies is a very plausible explanation. Is it so hard to believe that our senses are not always that reliable?
I don't want to go into UFOs, I'll just say it ties into the debate that's been going on in epistemology since ancient times: Are our senses or is reason to be trusted more? The UFO believers seem to be on the senses side. I recommend them to look into psychology research that has shown a lot of surprising things about the human mind. It's easy for us to remember things very differently from objective reality. We look for patterns. Of course it's hard once you have seen something and made sense of it... Of course entirely relying on reason, always based on what's already known, doesn't work either, we'll ignore new things that happen. But a bit of inertia is good. I'd rather be late to welcome the Reptilians or Greys when they actually come than get up on countless false alarms.
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NickTrop
Veteran
I have a fairly intense interest in the topic. However, I remain level-headed. I am, however, convinced that they exist and "monitor" earth. I have explained what "I" speculate them to be.
This is not "science", really, and I laugh at such notions. "As if" you could put a UFO in a test tube and apply the rigors of the scientific method to it. This is detective work. Like musings about the "multiverse" and many other advanced topics in physics... the means through which to test and quantify such hypothesis eludes us... We are left, therefore, with only reasoned speculation.
We can only, in an unbiased manner, look at the evidence of "some" cases, look at the preponderance of evidence overall mostly through sober eyewitness testimony (such as my own) which is vast, and draw rational conclusions based on that.
And the conclusion I have reached is that we are in our technological, pre-Singularity infancy. But many, many other intelligent species are post-Singularity and what eludes our puny ape-brains does not elude machine intelligence. That these events ("alien visitation") are fairly UNremarkable on a universal scale, though hard for us to fathom.
But one only has to look at where we are now (for example computers, space travel) and project.
Niko
Established
Haven´t seen one. Don´t deny or believe, but this thread reminded me of this recent photo of mine 
zuiko85
Veteran
After reviewing this entire thread all I have to add is;
Ack....ack ack ack......ack-ack...ACK!
Ack....ack ack ack......ack-ack...ACK!
raid
Dad Photographer
The Gulf Breeze Sightings of UFO are well known in the UFO literature. We live very close to Gulf Breeze! Should I start looking for UFO's there?
hexfan
Newbie
Some people like to keep their heads in the sand. What Nick says is a lot of speculation. We do know there have been things flying around for a long time that are inexplicable, and there are no answers as to a natural phenomena with our understanding of atmosphere and weather, evolutionary biology, photography nor anything else.
Fujilove presents himself as some sort of logical science guy but his beliefs and those like him are actually more like religious beliefs. I wrote a long post about this earlier and lost it because this damn website logs me out after a little while. The earth is like one data point on a graph and you can't tell squat from that. His questions are all just obfuscation and without having the necessary technology to prove this stuff in a lab or do really meaningful scientific analysis until now (with our advancement of imaging) his derision is very small minded.
I was about to suggest he take a walk anyway. People have had their laughs, so if you have any pics to post of UFOs or something meaningful to add to the discussion I expect your posts are welcome here. This video was recently released and I saw it for the 1st time today. The action starts 1:25sec into it.
https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
Fujilove presents himself as some sort of logical science guy but his beliefs and those like him are actually more like religious beliefs. I wrote a long post about this earlier and lost it because this damn website logs me out after a little while. The earth is like one data point on a graph and you can't tell squat from that. His questions are all just obfuscation and without having the necessary technology to prove this stuff in a lab or do really meaningful scientific analysis until now (with our advancement of imaging) his derision is very small minded.
I was about to suggest he take a walk anyway. People have had their laughs, so if you have any pics to post of UFOs or something meaningful to add to the discussion I expect your posts are welcome here. This video was recently released and I saw it for the 1st time today. The action starts 1:25sec into it.
https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage