FujiLove
Well-known
Wow. A small object moving fast in a straight line over the sea in an area where military activity is taking place. It's not showing signs of engine heat or, I presume, responding to radio.
Fast forward 30 seconds to the bit of video that's not been shared and you'll probably hear the controller confirm that a destroyer fired a shell or ballistic missile.
As an aside: US military radio procedure is extremely poor and undisciplined these days, don't you think?
FujiLove
Well-known
Well, I am scientifically trained, so yes a bit of a 'science guy'. I like to apply a scientific approach to things like this, and find it laughable how you can dismiss that sort of approach as a 'religious belief'. It's the same attitude that recently brought us the anti vax idiots, and so many others who drag our lives backwards. You clearly fail to see the irony in being so interested in massively advanced lifeforms, and yet you're dismissing the scientific approach which would undoubtedly have driven their development over the millennia. Doh.
By the way, I had another poke around that website you posted and I think I may have tracked down the No.1 motivation behind it. Unsurprisingly it again suggests 'UFO studies' are like religion...
Top right of the website: 'INVEST NOW'
NickTrop
Veteran
1. Since we have been unable to capture a UFO (or have we?), but have ample data points -- sufficient credible and corrobated eyewitness testimony to send a man to be executed in a court of law regarding their existence, all we are left with is speculation. ... the same way scientists relying on equations "speculate" we live in a multiverse but lack the means to apply the scientific method to their hypothesis.
2. Tick the checkbox (below your name after you sign-in) and you will remain logged-in to RFF.
NickTrop
Veteran
Yes. This is the 2004 Nitiz case I referenced in several posts as "the smoking gun". The gobsmacked Navy pilot Lt Cmd Fraver heard in the audio was the pilot of the F16 (not the aperture setting, the military jet...) was on TV and did multiple interviews bravely concluding that the object he and a second F16 were tracking was of intelligent control and not of terrestrial origin -- capable of maneuvers way beyond anything in the inventory of any nation on earth. The second F16 pilot corroborates and agrees with Fraver's assessment but has been less visible in the media, doing only a couple interviews.
The backstory, broken by the New York Times last December, is even more intriguing. Short synopsis -- the Nimitz had observed a "tick tak" shaped object in its vicinity over several weeks, hovering above the water, looking unlike any known aerial tech capable of incredible speed and gravity defying maneuvers. It was observed by all or most of the crew of the ship.The object was also tracked on radar.
When the Princeton was in the area doing training exercises and the "tick tack" UFO was observed again by the Nimitz, they requested the Princeton scramble two F16s to investigate. (Two things, scrambling military jets is not a little deal. Secondly, this is not the first time military jets have been scrambled to investigate UFOs - the 1952 Washington flap, 1976 UFO over Tehran, and 1989 Belgium black triangles are a few others that come to mind...) The classified audio and high-tech infrared video is what was released last December (and what you posted), held by an above top secret Pentagon program with a 22 million dollar bugget charged with studying the UFO phenomenon. The director of the Pentagon's secret "Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, Luis Elizondo, likewise, was interviewed last winter many times on TV boldly stating outright that the earth is being visited by non terrestrial entities/tech. He had access to far more evidence and information during his tenure overseeing the above top secret, black money-funded Pentagon UFO program, the majority of which is still (and will likely remain) classified.
This is NOT a little deal. It is the biggest story in human history. Yet? We'd rather focus on Trump's tweets...
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html
Asked what he (Lt Cmdr Fraver) believes it was, 13 years later, he was unequivocal.
“Something not from the Earth,” he said.
Former Navy pilot describes UFO encounter studied by secret Pentagon program
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...program/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f6a5de7933c9
mynikonf2
OEM
made lite of
made lite of
Ever since I read the U.S. Air Force Project: Blue Book, I have watched the skies for these phenomenon but so far have not seen any. Does that negate the countless sightings of highly trained professionals who placed their careers in jeopardy by reporting their experiences? Does this include the number of creditable witness and photographic evidence that the Air Force labeled as unexplained? I do not have an answer for those who doubt, neither did Christopher Columbus before he proved doubters wrong. As for me, I will continue to enjoy the efforts of those who push against the darkness that exist in the minds of men while keeping one eye on the sky. Wishing you all good light and fair winds...
made lite of
Ever since I read the U.S. Air Force Project: Blue Book, I have watched the skies for these phenomenon but so far have not seen any. Does that negate the countless sightings of highly trained professionals who placed their careers in jeopardy by reporting their experiences? Does this include the number of creditable witness and photographic evidence that the Air Force labeled as unexplained? I do not have an answer for those who doubt, neither did Christopher Columbus before he proved doubters wrong. As for me, I will continue to enjoy the efforts of those who push against the darkness that exist in the minds of men while keeping one eye on the sky. Wishing you all good light and fair winds...
kuuan
loves old lenses
My estimation that the moving, light emiting objects had a diameter of about 20cm and that they moved at a distance of 20 to 50 meter are NOT based on the photos seen above. Capturing of these lights happenend unintentionally, by accident.
My estimations are based on the viewing of the lightballs from the seconds floor, that is from about 4 meter off the ground and the ricefield, distance of the moving lights from the house had been between about 7 to 30 meter. Lights moved mostly low, sometimes just at a half to 1 meter height over the ricefield and in between palm trees up to about 5 to 10 meters high, again at distances starting from less than 10 meters from point of observation.
From the second floor looking down into the ricefield and streight or lightly up into the crowns of nearby palm trees makes estimation of distances rather easy, even verifyable. Actually I even did measure some distances the next day but I did not note them down. Distances I have given here are conservative, closest fireball that made me estimate it's diameter of about 20cm must have been rather less, not more than 10 meter away from me.
While witnessing I tried to be rational and the explanation of fireflies had been the most logical one that came up. I tried hard to view these lights as fireflies but that was not possible.
I understand that my observations, for someone who wants scientific proof, are irrelevant. I don't want to convince anyone, nor do I care much. Possibly I may add more later regarding human mind and perception.
raid
Dad Photographer
I once asked the late I. J. Good (Probability Professor and Enigma code breaker at Bletchley Park in WWII) about UFO and the chances of the existence of life "out there". He checked in his library first, and then he told me that he had 4 articles on it (in 1987). The probability = 1/2. We don't know if they exist and we don't know if they don't exist out there. This is based on Bayesian probability theory and it is not a "flip a coin" result 
Professor Irving J. Good played a vital role in the uncoding of the Enigma during WWII, and the outcome of the Battle of Normandy.
I was lucky to have met such Professors.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rk-was-crucial-to-the-war-effort-1684506.html
Professor Irving J. Good played a vital role in the uncoding of the Enigma during WWII, and the outcome of the Battle of Normandy.
I was lucky to have met such Professors.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rk-was-crucial-to-the-war-effort-1684506.html
NickTrop
Veteran
We have to disengage from the "My Favorite Martian"/Hollywood notion of "aliens" and understand what these things are... This is something we're on the cusp of on a historical timescale and is likely (imo) the reason for their interest in us. And if you're tuned in to the topic of artificial intelligence (AI) tremendous RD money is being invested in both narrow AI (self-driving cars), and "general" AI (computers with minds like humans). I subscribe to the notion that "man" is a transitional species and the Omega of biological evolution. "We" are a break-away species, and as advanced as organic evolution can take us from an intelligence stand-point. Further, both biological life and evolution follows a tight predictable pattern that is common place throughout the universe. This biological evolutionary pattern eventually results in a break-away "smart communicative ape" species, that eventually sheds its frail biolgical substrate that is environment dependent and undergos a metamorphosis to (environment independent, does not have to kill to subsist, disease-free, death-free) machine life once it becomes technologically capable. The "tic tac" is such an "organism".
"If an extraterrestrial species becomes advanced enough to send signals Earthlings can pick up, it will likely shed its traditional biological trappings and become a form of machine intelligence in rather short order..."
Electronic E.T.: Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines
https://www.space.com/34713-intelligent-aliens-machines-seti-search.html
"If an extraterrestrial species becomes advanced enough to send signals Earthlings can pick up, it will likely shed its traditional biological trappings and become a form of machine intelligence in rather short order..."
Electronic E.T.: Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines
https://www.space.com/34713-intelligent-aliens-machines-seti-search.html
dmr
Registered Abuser
Here's one that has been, uh, floating around for a while ...
f16sunshine
Moderator
This line of thinking is no less subjective than believing an alien life form sits in a chair and eats with a fork and knife like us.
Why should it be assumed that another life form would need computers to do it’’s thinking.
Computer use and machines may be a purely human “trait”.
Other intelligent life may not have a need to go down the path of machine use… why should we assume anything of the sort?
Again, I find this a highly subjective line of thinking.
NickTrop
Veteran
It depends on how "tight" the patterns of evolution are. I think evolution occurs largely "on rails" with planets in the Goldilocks zone. Earth-like conditions must be present, the planet of a certain mass, certain temp range, certain of water and chemical content etc... it will spark very "earth-like" single cell organisms and eventually very "earth-like" creatures, following a strict and predictable pattern of technological development.
Those earth-like creatures will be not too different from "us" and have earthly counterparts. You will likely find a mouse, a sparrow, and a roach (all)-like creatures on distant planets. I say this because "life" is really a byproduct of physical laws which do not vary. Therefore the "life" produced by those physical laws, when the proper conditions are present to bring it forth persist between fairly narrow but commonplace parameters, will follow very specific patterns resulting in life forms resembling our own. Further, if you believe the accounts of those who claim to have seen extraterrestrials, they are of the bipedal "Star Trek-y" variety (look like us in the main -- maybe with pointy ears like Spock or short, bug-eyed and gray...) not bizarre squid-like creatures of the film Contact.
I subscribe to the notion that "life" -- wherever it may exist in the universe, follows a very tight pattern that does not vary much from life-bearing planet to life-bearing planet. Likewise, whatever breakaway species that develops on distant planets follows a "tight" pattern of technological development culminating in a metamorphosis to machine life as the endpoint of a truly universal evolutionary pattern where...
Sentient life is not dependent on eating other biological organisms, does not "die", does not "get sick", and can exist in virtually any environment -- including space. Generation after generation the endpoint of Darwinism is to maximize sentience (of one of its species) and achieve immortality at the individual "life unit" level of one of its species. The goal of evolution -- achieved through natural selection and Darwinism, is the creation of super-sentient conscious life forms that are not dependent on its planetary origins to subsist, since those planetary origins and/or the conditions present to sustain the life it spawned are temporal.
And what do we see now? Reaching out to space. Development of AI. We are, as a species, akin to ants building an anthill. Doing what we are pre-programmed by external forces (like said ants) to do, and largely unaware of our end goal: immortality and super-sentience. This can not be achieved via biological substrate. A metamorphosis must occur. The process of this consciousness transference from biology-based to machine based sentience, likewise, follows a strict pattern -- math, science, electricity, discovery of the quantum, nuclear capabilities, computing technology using the Von Neumann model, space flight etc. culminating in the shedding of our frail enviornment-dependent, "death prone" biological substrate
... and this has occurred, throughout the galaxy, universe as the product of an unerring pattern -- as unerring as "gravity", I posit. We are in no way unique, but are following a strict pre-ordained pattern in the wake of billions or trillions of high-sentient "break-away" life forms that have preceded us in the universe.
FujiLove
Well-known
Look at how much human intelligence has advanced over the past ten thousand years. I’ve never heard any biologist suggest that evolution couldn’t continue, or even accelerate, for the next ten thousand and beyond. So what’s your idea that we have hit a biological limit as a species based upon? What studies have you read which suggest that? (Peer reviewed journals only please). Or again, is it empty speculation that you’re spreading as ‘fact’ on the Internet?
Corran
Well-known
The issue of life / consciousness in relation to biological vs. machine is one of timescale. If any kind of intelligent entity wanted to send probes or explore the universe at large, one must grapple with the real issue of the speed of light barrier. Bringing humans even to the closest star using technology right now or on the cusp of possibility would already take several generations of humans living their life on said ship. Even with extreme speed and time dilation from the observer's point of view it is a challenge.
If not actual machine life, one could imagine probes with some kind of advanced quantum entanglement communication device allowing faster-than-light transmissions, sent here using subluminal but very fast propulsion devices (small size would be very helpful here). Actual biological life will require some serious tech to transport. Perhaps something like the Alcubierre Drive is possible, but the challenges seem immense. Another cool possibility is the Kugelblitz drive that uses a mini black hole for propulsion with Hawking Radiation. Oftentimes the challenge is slowing down at your destination. We would likely detect these kind of things slowing down into our solar system!
If not actual machine life, one could imagine probes with some kind of advanced quantum entanglement communication device allowing faster-than-light transmissions, sent here using subluminal but very fast propulsion devices (small size would be very helpful here). Actual biological life will require some serious tech to transport. Perhaps something like the Alcubierre Drive is possible, but the challenges seem immense. Another cool possibility is the Kugelblitz drive that uses a mini black hole for propulsion with Hawking Radiation. Oftentimes the challenge is slowing down at your destination. We would likely detect these kind of things slowing down into our solar system!
seany65
Well-known
To those who think we only see UFO's because we want to, Can you explain this:
I want to see Rachel Riley in her nuddies but it's never happened.
Why?
I want to see Rachel Riley in her nuddies but it's never happened.
Why?
NickTrop
Veteran
1. Perhaps you should direct this question to the Belgium airforce who scrambled two fighters to investigate them (and the pilot who has gone on record many times to claim what he was tracking was not from earth -- just like Lt Cmdr Fraver claimed) Because -- ya know, a nation's military just scrambles jets to investigate stuff -- "just because"...
2. If a technology (or "entity") is capable of interstellar travel, or warping space-time, or otherwise getting from a "point-a to point-b" that are light-years apart, which they are, do you not think they'd be able to spoof our comparatively crude 20th-century earthly radar tech? They show up on radar when they feel like it, for reasons known only to them...
3. You are ignorant of the topic -- quite emotional. Here's a good book by a very rational, sober investigator -- it's well-researched and well-written. Highly recommended.
"For years, serious researchers have known that triangular-shaped UFOs are one of the most common types observed. The phenomenon has sparked intense debate among many and excited the imagination of many others. But until now, there has never been a book-length treatment of this fascinating subject.
Finally, we have one. David Marler has provided a comprehensive analysis of “the triangles.” He has collected, collated, and analyzed hundreds of reports. In the process, he has created a detailed profile of these objects and written a rich narrative of their history.
Marler is well-suited to the task, having at his disposal an enormous collection of newspaper archives, declassified military reports, UFO books and journals, and the transcripts of many first-hand interviews he has conducted. He has also received input from many prominent individuals from within the military, FAA, Aerospace, and UFO research field. "
You can read this for free with Kindle Unlimited. Get a free trial. Won't cost you a dime.
https://www.amazon.com/Triangular-U...30292585&sr=8-11&keywords=Black+triangle+UFOs
JeffS7444
Well-known
The spirit of Art Bell lives on
But I did see a "UFO" and incredibly, it was through a 4" refracting telescope! It was pure luck that I happened to have the telescope set up at dusk, and IIRC I was wanting to look at the planet Venus. It was then that I noticed a very bright object moving across the sky, and as my telescope was sitting atop at alt-az mount, it was easy for me to manually track. It seemed to be completely silent, I could discern no shape nor any blinking lights.
I asked about it on an astronomy site, and consensus was that I had likely seen a space shuttle, which struck me as being really cool.
But I did see a "UFO" and incredibly, it was through a 4" refracting telescope! It was pure luck that I happened to have the telescope set up at dusk, and IIRC I was wanting to look at the planet Venus. It was then that I noticed a very bright object moving across the sky, and as my telescope was sitting atop at alt-az mount, it was easy for me to manually track. It seemed to be completely silent, I could discern no shape nor any blinking lights.
I asked about it on an astronomy site, and consensus was that I had likely seen a space shuttle, which struck me as being really cool.
JeffS7444
Well-known
According to my EXIF:
D800, 14-24mm @ f/3.5, 30s exposure, ISO 1600.
I was taking a long exposure series, to be combined later, and you can see this object come into frame, then turn and go back out of the frame. Nothing erratic in its flight but I also captured other planes which clearly have the typical blinking light and wing lights and much higher in the sky. Comparatively this light was probably 100x brighter than the planes (likely commercial). I didn't hear a sound as it came by.
In fact here is the entire sequence layered on top of each other. Three frames, so about 1.5 minutes. Just a quick layering w/ no edits hence the slight difference in color/shadow detail:
Rocket launch with bright spot being the separation of a booster stage?
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Life forms have many variables..
Language is subjective as well as thought..
To understand these variations we need to throw out all our "human" thought patterns..and use our minds to imagine what they may actually be..instead of imposing our "human" realities upon them..and painting them up the way we think they should be..
We are simian based..the whales and dolphins..are cetacean based..and these sentient beings occupy a space on this world as important as humans do..but w/o the need for machines..
Both species are sentient and have 'souls"..that incur karma..and bring them back and back again and again..until the lessons have been learned..
Humans are sight based..and Whales..sound based..
"Aliens"..may not be based on any common Human patterns..or Whales for that matter..
And have senses completely their own..
It should be noted..when a species has an opposable thumb or similar..and has the ability to move around a bit and create all kinds of "things"..eventually creating such things...as nuclear bombs..which in about 1/3 of all species extant in the universe..manage to blow themselves up into extinction within a short time after this discovery..
But..after this occurs..the species that enacts this...will decide to incarnate into a less adaptable species instead in another planetary system..and w/o the ability to create such massively destructive things again..to insure the completion of all the levels thru time..for their souls..
We have in fact..avoided this for our species..for now...and while in the 50's and 60's..somehow got thru the nuclear dilemma and avoided destroying the world.....now our problem is the one of overpopulation..which is directly or indirectly responsible for all the misery on this lil planet..we call Earth..
Language is subjective as well as thought..
To understand these variations we need to throw out all our "human" thought patterns..and use our minds to imagine what they may actually be..instead of imposing our "human" realities upon them..and painting them up the way we think they should be..
We are simian based..the whales and dolphins..are cetacean based..and these sentient beings occupy a space on this world as important as humans do..but w/o the need for machines..
Both species are sentient and have 'souls"..that incur karma..and bring them back and back again and again..until the lessons have been learned..
Humans are sight based..and Whales..sound based..
"Aliens"..may not be based on any common Human patterns..or Whales for that matter..
And have senses completely their own..
It should be noted..when a species has an opposable thumb or similar..and has the ability to move around a bit and create all kinds of "things"..eventually creating such things...as nuclear bombs..which in about 1/3 of all species extant in the universe..manage to blow themselves up into extinction within a short time after this discovery..
But..after this occurs..the species that enacts this...will decide to incarnate into a less adaptable species instead in another planetary system..and w/o the ability to create such massively destructive things again..to insure the completion of all the levels thru time..for their souls..
We have in fact..avoided this for our species..for now...and while in the 50's and 60's..somehow got thru the nuclear dilemma and avoided destroying the world.....now our problem is the one of overpopulation..which is directly or indirectly responsible for all the misery on this lil planet..we call Earth..
Corran
Well-known
That's not how rockets fly. Like I said it passed right by me shining a light my way, but was completely silent. Maybe 500 feet in the air tops. It was either a silent helicopter or a drone of some type, military. Near a test range.
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
Overpopulation is the 7.6 billion pound gorilla in the corner of the room. And growing by the minute.
It's never discussed, acknowledged, or addressed. I once attended a meeting by my city to plan for an expected 20,000 new people moving to our city in the next few years. I asked the question: Why do we have to have 20,000 new people? Blank! Nothing. No response. No one thinks about the problem at its root. Why? Of course, its always more nuanced than my simple question, but the premise remains. Why do we have to accept this process? Or even worse, why are some people encouraging this process?
The fact is, we don't have to have an additional 20,000 people. All this "planning" is in fact reactionary scrambling. I also showed the "planners" how it is !impossible to grow and keep up with infrastructure needs such that quality-of-life does not decline. To put it in simpler words: growth is not sustainable. Eventually, everyone will suffer. And in fact, the suffering extends beyond the geographic extent of the city, and beyond humans.
But, that is not directly related to UFOs. Or is it?
It's never discussed, acknowledged, or addressed. I once attended a meeting by my city to plan for an expected 20,000 new people moving to our city in the next few years. I asked the question: Why do we have to have 20,000 new people? Blank! Nothing. No response. No one thinks about the problem at its root. Why? Of course, its always more nuanced than my simple question, but the premise remains. Why do we have to accept this process? Or even worse, why are some people encouraging this process?
The fact is, we don't have to have an additional 20,000 people. All this "planning" is in fact reactionary scrambling. I also showed the "planners" how it is !impossible to grow and keep up with infrastructure needs such that quality-of-life does not decline. To put it in simpler words: growth is not sustainable. Eventually, everyone will suffer. And in fact, the suffering extends beyond the geographic extent of the city, and beyond humans.
But, that is not directly related to UFOs. Or is it?