noimmunity
scratch my niche
That has been the price mentioned all along. But it is only a suggested retail price. It will sell for less on the street. Still, with the value of the yen these days, that is going to make it a very expensive camera.
Pavel+
Established
I like polls but like this one most are incredibly poor in choice of options, and show the bias of the author. How hard is it to keep biases out of it? Why could the choices not be the same where all had "buy definately at each price"? Or does the OP want to drive the point home that "He" think that the price is too high?
What I don't understand is how so many people need to be conditioned. They already have been conditioned to accept a Leica MP at insane prices here mostly they are subsidizing archaic ways but somehow think that at $5000 a medium format rangefinder would be too much to pay. They have it a a price less than most of Leica's lenses ( which they accept meekly) and still rage against a price that seems paltry against what they take as necessary to spend on the 35mm habit? Sheesh. If Leica made MF rangefinder, put a $ 39 brass top on it somewhere and charged $6900 - they would wet their pants. So be grateful that a company is making a low volume run in a failing economy for you - at any price!
What I don't understand is how so many people need to be conditioned. They already have been conditioned to accept a Leica MP at insane prices here mostly they are subsidizing archaic ways but somehow think that at $5000 a medium format rangefinder would be too much to pay. They have it a a price less than most of Leica's lenses ( which they accept meekly) and still rage against a price that seems paltry against what they take as necessary to spend on the 35mm habit? Sheesh. If Leica made MF rangefinder, put a $ 39 brass top on it somewhere and charged $6900 - they would wet their pants. So be grateful that a company is making a low volume run in a failing economy for you - at any price!
FS Vontz
Aspirer
I wouldn't be interested at all to be honest
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Most of us who shoot Leicas actually refuse to accept the $4500 price charged for the MP. We shoot 40-50 year old Leicas because they work just as well. Honestly my 39 year old M4 that cost me $800 is almost identical to an MP except the lack of a meter. Yeah, the MP has more framelines (for 28 and 75mm) but you can buy an M4P or an M6 which has those too and the M6 has a meter just like the MP's meter....for $3000 less. I'm not grateful to Leica for making overpriced low run stuff. If they died tomorrow I wouldn't care a bit, the company has been irrelevant to real working photographers for decades now, We will keep using old gear, its cheap and there's plenty of it out there.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
You know, I can't quite believe the results of this poll. Overall 88% of respondents had some expectation (or was it wish?) that they might be able to buy it for less than $1500! And by far the greater proportion were quoting under $1000.
That borders on delusional. It seems some were using a base the second hand prices for now-obsolete MF rangefinders of various ages and feature lists to arrive at their price point - but as a new camera? C'mon!
That borders on delusional. It seems some were using a base the second hand prices for now-obsolete MF rangefinders of various ages and feature lists to arrive at their price point - but as a new camera? C'mon!
aizan
Veteran
$1718.19 fuji gf670, m
$1662.25 fuji gf670, m
$1743 voigtlander bessa iii, m
these are the results for the auctions i've seen on ebay. seems pretty reasonable!
$1662.25 fuji gf670, m
$1743 voigtlander bessa iii, m
these are the results for the auctions i've seen on ebay. seems pretty reasonable!
aizan
Veteran
no prob. i'll add a note to my favorite searches.
btw, what keywords did you search? "voigtlander bessa iii" and "gf670" on a worldwide, completed items search didn't turn up anything for me, aside from a hood that sold for $99 BIN.
btw, what keywords did you search? "voigtlander bessa iii" and "gf670" on a worldwide, completed items search didn't turn up anything for me, aside from a hood that sold for $99 BIN.
aizan
Veteran
oh, there it is. that one was new, though. i'm talking used.
aizan
Veteran
yup. from what i could infer, the sellers mostly shot digital. *shrug*
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
It's not like nobody's looking. I think it's safe to say there's no second hand market for the B3 at present, despite maybe one or two random events over several months. That doesn't make a market. They're just not coming into circulation. I think that's mainly because the numbers sold are relatively small, the price has deterred people who might have "tried one" and sold it on if they didn't like it, and those who took the plunge DO like it and aren't selling.
Maybe in a year's time - or two?
Maybe in a year's time - or two?
One idea for a less expensive Bessa III... A committee of end-users both amateur and professional agrees on a reasonable and affordable price. The government then directs the maker to sell the camera for this price, and subsidizes any extra manufacturing cost. There is a monthly production quota, to make sure of adequate availability. To ensure quality, government inspectors periodically check cameras set aside for this purpose by the factory, and look for inefficiencies to correct. So, everyone is happy with this arrangement? :angel:
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I thought you were based in China until I checked your location. A great idea - work backwards from the price - bugger the design and features. Oh, I see the Government is going to subsidise it, so we'll end up with something like an FSU folder.
Jamie123
Veteran
plze send me a PM when you see one for those prices again aizan..
because i just had a look at the completed listings and they are about right if you add another $1000 to what you have written
Here's a used GF670 for $1999 BIN http://cgi.ebay.com/Fujifilm-GF670-...ViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item4ceb669bff
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Jamie123
Veteran
One could say that there is a used market for the Bessa III even though it's very, very small. There were/are a few on eBay and I saw one for $2100 on another photography forum a few weeks ago. On the other hand, most of the Bessa III's and GF670's on ebay and other places seem to be from people who bought one to try it out and then decided to sell it again so they're practically still new. I guess it'll be a while before we see used Bessa III's that actually look used.
As far as the price goes the Bessa III is certainly not cheap but I never really got why there was such an outrage over the price. As someone already mentioned most Leica lenses are more expensive and so are the Fuji Hasselblad lenses. Buy a new Mamiya 7II with an 80mm lens and you'll pay more than the Bessa III costs.
Also, the Bessa II is regularly selling for more than $1000 on the used market and that's a 60 year old camera. That's expensive even compared to Leicas of the same age.
akarin
Established
I thought you were based in China until I checked your location. A great idea - work backwards from the price - bugger the design and features. Oh, I see the Government is going to subsidise it, so we'll end up with something like an FSU folder.
I also looked at the poster's location...but what was the surprise??
Just kidding guys...have a great day!
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
I never saw this thread before... When I first saw Bessa III's price, I thought CV made a big mistake at pricing it that high... Yet I wonder if they consider that camera sales great, just as expected, or a real nightmare...
tensai
Established
I just saw a second hand Fuji GF670 for around ¥160.000 ($1790, 1300 euro) in a local store here in Shinjuku. Luckily they also had three Plaubel Makina 670's so I was too distracted to be seriously tempted..
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I think they've probably got it about right. After all, right at the outset it was stated that there would only be a limited production run of both the Voigtlander and the Fuji models - about a 1:2 ratio if I remember correctly, or about 5000 vs 10,000. That's 5000 of the Voigtlander model for the total rest of the world apart from Japan. Maybe someone can verify those numbers. Not that many! And looking at the way CV keep dropping lenses from their lineup as they introduce new ones we shouldn't be surprised if, once Fuji's ambitions are met, that production of the 667 in either guise ceases.
I'm sure if they'd sold way beyond expectation then a further run would be organised but my feeling is that this will become a camera that within a very few years will only be available second hand as it will be out of production and because of the limited production numbers prices will take years and years to fall to match the unrealistic expectations of some earlier posters in this forum who seemed to want to be able to get one new for around the price of a 50 year-old Bessa II.
My guess is that in 12-24 months a few will surface at around the $2000 mark, plus or minus a bit, but not enough of them to push the prices significantly lower for quite some time. Maybe 3-5 years out it might change.
There's an interesting thread right now about the impact the M8 and M9 have had (or not had, actually) on prices for RD-1 cameras and how it is starting to appear that by limiting the number of M8's produced before launching the (very expensive) M9, Leica have managed to keep the second hand prices of both M8 models higher than expected. A byproduct of that is that RD-1 cameras are enjoying unexpectedly high prices because that's the default DRF if you can't afford an M8. Some elements of that scenario could be playing out with the Bessa III. Maybe?
sircarl
Well-known
The last three or four that have sold on eBay the past couple of months -- used, described as virtually new -- have gone for around $1,700. Not enough to make a trend, but an interesting suggestion that that's about what people think they're worth.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
That's interesting and perhaps a little more of a shift than the "give or take a bit" I suggested. I'd seen a couple at $2100 and $2000 but not as low as $1700. I think there are buyers out there at $1500 - $1750 but I was doubtful there would be sellers yet in that range. Looks like I was wrong.