Prints

I'm not sure if book is doable with ink printer. Maybe laser printer?
I'm printing background on pages for album, those are scrapbook paper. Twenty five pages with one 4x6 darkroom print on each... it is already as thick and heavy as photo book :).
 
Calzone said:
I agree with Chris.

The only ink jet exception is perhaps Piezography. These inks for B&W are all carbon based and should be as archival as say a charcol or pencil drawing. No color pigment is used, thus no fading.

The color most prone to fading and the least permanent is red.

Cal
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There's other options as well for both color and monochrome work.

For instance Fuji Crystal Printing materials use silver halide chemistry and are deigned for use with professional lab laser printers.

For B&W one option is the DSI Digital Silver Print. This technique uses a photographic laser printer to expose Ilford silver gelatin papers. The print is then developed using wet chemistry.

There are other several other options for laser-based printing that avoid the pitfalls of older technologies.
 
Calzone said:
John,

I use and maintain two printers: an Epson 3880; and an Epson 7800. The costs are huge. On a 24 inch by 50 foot roll I only get 16 prints when I print 20x30 on 24x36. One year I took advantage of discount sale pricing and spent $10K on paper and ink alone.

Then there are additional costs of storage boxes for these prints.

As far as books go might I suggest utilizing your printer to create an art book. Perhaps learn book binding. Something about the IQ of a hand made book and the artistic vision.

I print on Canson Baryta Photographique which is cellulose and cost effective, but I love the feel of Canson Platine Fibre Rag. Robert Rodriguez, who is the Canson Artist-In-Residence, says that behind glass these two papers look pretty much the same, but if the prints ar to be held in the hand that the Fibre Rag has that special tactile sense.

Also consider boxed sets instead of books for your work.

Cal
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Thanks for the suggestions, Cal. I agree there's nothing like the look and feel of a good paper. But I'm pretty disillusioned by the cost of photography generally, especially as I near retirement. Were I selling prints, maybe it would be different, but I'm not interested in that. And, like I said, the reward for me comes from personal projects.

The prospect of creating books from prints is appealing. Printing using 8.5 x 11" double-sided paper and binding myself would be very satisfying and probably cost no more than Blurb.

John
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Never seen 6x9 contacts prints from the past? :) They sell them in quantities at antique malls now.
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I have not. Why would I be interested?

I used tiny 35mm film contact sheets to guide my analog printing. After a while you learn how a small image translates into a larger version.

I don't think too many on-line viewers can pre-visualize an image's aesthetic potential from a thumbnail sized version. So, it's useful to seduce then into clicking on the thumbnail.
 
Ko.Fe. said:
I'm not sure if book is doable with ink printer. Maybe laser printer?
I'm printing background on pages for album, those are scrapbook paper. Twenty five pages with one 4x6 darkroom print on each... it is already as thick and heavy as photo book :).
Click to expand...

KoFe,

You are correct in that a photo book of prints would be heavy, perhaps bulky, and definitely be limited in number of pages. The challenge here is to not only create a cool book that presents the prints well, but also making the above limitations into creative assets.

Consider binding a collection of say 25 prints using 12x18 images on 17x24 rag paper. Of course editing has to be cohesive. Pretty much a way to package a show for exhibition.

This is something I'm actually doing. It is not a traditional book, but is a fine art book. The prints I make have an offset border to allow for binding. I took a book binding workshop over two decades ago. Kinda think of a book as an object to be held more like a scultpture.

At a "Gallery Workshop" I presented the idea of a book of my prints to an art dealer. He had mucho excitment of how a "hand-made" book of prints would have big value added, and was a way to commonify my work into a rarity that would command a huge premium. Not your typical book.

Cal
 
Binding and cover makes huge difference. Crappy binding and cover called Zine.
Binding and cover made right called Art Book.
I'm on the zine stage right now :).
 
johnwolf said:
Thanks for the suggestions, Cal. I agree there's nothing like the look and feel of a good paper. But I'm pretty disillusioned by the cost of photography generally, especially as I near retirement. Were I selling prints, maybe it would be different, but I'm not interested in that. And, like I said, the reward for me comes from personal projects.

The prospect of creating books from prints is appealing. Printing using 8.5 x 11" double-sided paper and binding myself would be very satisfying and probably cost no more than Blurb.

John
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John,

At age 60 I'm planning on retirement. Something to consider is having large format printers still allows me to print small. Also since most people don't print, I get solicited to print for other artists because I have a bit of a reputation. My skills that I developed through experience has led to income, and the money is good. Pretty much my clients are using me as their personal printer, so there is value added, and know I only work with people I know and respect.

I don't market or advertise, and I don't do anything I don't want to do. One friend/artist I printed an exhibition that was displayed in Hong Kong that was part of a book release. Pretty much I was a consultant and made sure the print size used stock frame sizes to avoid expensive custom framing. I explained why dealers, collectors, and pro framers like big borders to avoid dry mounting.

I have another friend/artist I print for, and he is rather patient with me because he understands how busy I am with my own work and the support I offer to my fashion blogger gal.

As far as retirement goes printing can be a form of income, and it can be rewarding. I learn a lot from my client's work. The idea here is to make a commitment to being a printer, and developing a good reputation. My one client told me he paid a lot of money to have a custom print made by Whitewall, but he not only was disappointed, he took ownership that he was spoiled because I was able to express his artistic vision.

I encourage you to explore possibilities.

Cal
 
Ko.Fe., I do zines, too. Using MagCloud. 2nd rate print quality but cheap enough to give away.

Is your reservation about inkjet books with their thickness? According to my calculation, using Red River double-sided rag paper, a 40-page spine would be .54 inches without the cover. That seems reasonable to me.

I'm going to give one a try. Thanks for the inspiration everyone!

John
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Binding and cover makes huge difference. Crappy binding and cover called Zine.
Binding and cover made right called Art Book.
I'm on the zine stage right now :).
Click to expand...

KoFe,

Nothing wrong with a zine. Doing creative things is never bad.

In a way a fine art book is more narrowly limited and easier to do. Few pages and less images is less work in a way, but it is time intensive due to quality exacution.

An intermediate approach is a "boxed set" as a collection of prints. A different experience than a book. The idea here is to engage the viewer and allowing handling of prints as part of the experience.

I find that 12x18 image size on 17x22 paper supplies a nice border to "frame" the image. It also allows the print to have its own space. Something to consider when buying a printer. Also this sixe promotes intimacy because the viewing distance is basically arms length.

My 20x30's on 24x36 paper are really exhibition prints that utilize a "Billboard" effect that captures the eye from afar a draws the viewer closer until they "nose-up" into the fine detail. Again a different experience.

All good.

Cal
 
johnwolf said:
Ko.Fe., I do zines, too. Using MagCloud. 2nd rate print quality but cheap enough to give away.

Is your reservation about inkjet books with their thickness? According to my calculation, using Red River double-sided rag paper, a 40-page spine would be .54 inches without the cover. That seems reasonable to me.

I'm going to give one a try. Thanks for the inspiration everyone!

John
Click to expand...

John,

Another paper to consider is Canson Duo for a thin double sided paper. Matte finish. This is not a heavy paper.

Also on a double sided paper consider buying 17x22 and printing 4 images.

I also do two images on a single sided paper. The Baryta coated papers I like flake where I crease the paper though. I use a "bone folder" to score the crease before folding the paper to make two pages.

Cal
 
It is very collaborative, indeed, with big help from Bill!
I'll google this Red River Rat paper :), I want to self-print hundred page book.
 
Ko.Fe. said:
It is very collaborative, indeed, with big help from Bill!
I'll google this Red River Rat paper :), I want to self-print hundred page book.
Click to expand...

KoFe,

Only one box of paper if you use 17x22 and fold to create 4 pages.

The binding skills are not hard to develop. Perhaps the thickness of a completed book would be about 3/4's inch without the covers.

I have a "workbook" that basically is 12x18 images on 17x22 single sided. I use Canson Baryta Photographique as my "proofing" paper and it is cellulose, but the book I'm making will be using Canson Platine Fibre Rag which is a bit thicker paper. This book will be a "table book." Kinda too heavy to hold.

Also know that because I print glossy that the Piezography process I use utilizes a "gloss overcoat" that protects the print from damage. Pretty much I can spit or drool on one of my prints and squeegee the wetness with my hand, and the print suffers no damage.

This art dealer encouraged me: "If you make a one off thick book of prints this size it will be worth a lot of money," he said.

Cal
 
Erik van Straten said:
Here's Flickr a big help. Bad photos get bored after a while. Viewing the work regularly on Flickr helps you choose the work you want to print.

Erik.
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I concur. It's like only printing contact sheets and not making big prints for a few months or years.

A bunch of my very early work went up on Flickr, and, after being up there, the real winners popped out, and those are the ones I spent the time with to make a proper print that satisfied me.
 
Calzone said:
John,

Another paper to consider is Canson Duo for a thin double sided paper. Matte finish. This is not a heavy paper.

Also on a double sided paper consider buying 17x22 and printing 4 images.

I also do two images on a single sided paper. The Baryta coated papers I like flake where I crease the paper though. I use a "bone folder" to score the crease before folding the paper to make two pages.

Cal
Click to expand...

I see Canson Duo is just slightly heavier than Red River, so that's an option. Incidentally, RR is one of the few paper vendors that offers square sizes.

Folding is kind of a pain and hard to be perfectly consistent. Of course, the slightly random outer edges can be a nice look. But I know there are single-sheet binding methods, which seems to make sense for heavier papers. Lots of binding resources on the web and YouTube. Another thing to learn....

John
 
Calzone said:
Consider binding a collection of say 25 prints using 12x18 images on 17x24 rag paper. Of course editing has to be cohesive. Pretty much a way to package a show for exhibition.

This is something I'm actually doing. It is not a traditional book, but is a fine art book. The prints I make have an offset border to allow for binding. I took a book binding workshop over two decades ago. Kinda think of a book as an object to be held more like a scultpture.
Click to expand...

Cal, you better see this out to completion. It is completely a Cal thing to do and it should be a lovely object.
 
johnwolf said:
I see Canson Duo is just slightly heavier than Red River, so that's an option. Incidentally, RR is one of the few paper vendors that offers square sizes.

Folding is kind of a pain and hard to be perfectly consistent. Of course, the slightly random outer edges can be a nice look. But I know there are single-sheet binding methods, which seems to make sense for heavier papers. Lots of binding resources on the web and YouTube. Another thing to learn....

John
Click to expand...

John,

Folding paper neatly and consistently is really easy. Bookbinders use a "bonefolder" which is a flat piece of cow bone that is ised with a straight edge to score a line where you want the fold. When you begin to fold the paper the paper will want to follow the score mark you made on the paper.

Use the flat section of the bone folder to progressively set the crease. Pretty much perfect and easy to duplicate.

The bone folder is also used to tear a "deckeled" edge on of foled paper that some artists use on fine art papers made of rag.

Bone folders can be found in arts and craft stores and cost about $7.00. Buy one and it will last a lifetime, unless you loose it. LOL.

Canson Duo comes in two weights.

Cal
 
jsrockit said:
Cal, you better see this out to completion. It is completely a Cal thing to do and it should be a lovely object.
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John,

You are my inspiration.

For those that don't know John's work, he uses books to edit mucho images.

John I consider not only a photographer, but also a book artist. He has his own style.

Cal
 
Glad to see the conversation has turned to book making. Viewing photography in book form is my favorite way of looking at an artist's body of work. Over the years I've created photos in all the forms mentioned (darkroom enlargements, contact prints, inkjet prints, web), but putting my photos together in thematic book form is now what I'm pursuing. Putting images together in book form makes me think much more about my photographic intentions and quality of images.
 
I make lots of prints, but most are small. Recently, I did a print of a scanned 4x5 negative for a friend. He wanted me to do it with Costco (he wanted low price). It was 11x14 or something like that. The file he sent me was 2.0 mb. I was surprised at how well it came out, maybe good scanning.

It got me thinking about alternative methods, one was to take many images with a modest mega-pixel camera and then stitch them, the other was to use a DSLR (FF) and use pixel shift (static images only, with a high quality lens [I would use my f4.0 Macro-Takumar]). What do you think of these work arounds; so as to not have to spend $12,000 of a MF digital camera?
 
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