Problems with Buying a new Scanner

[JeremyLangford]

I have an Epson V500 flatbed film scanner. I have had it for about a year and have decided that I am not happy with the results I get from it. I have scanned a ton of negatives and started lots of threads on RFF asking questions about scanning and figuring out why Im not happy with it. (I'm only using it for web use). I used to get my negs scanned at Walmart before I had my own scanner and I was hoping that the Epson V500 would do just as good as a job as Walmart. But it hasn't.

I have really been thinking about buying a Coolscan V (I only shoot 35mm). I figured that it would surely solve all my problems and get me the results I've been looking for. The only problem is that I really want to try out a new scanner first before I sell my V500 and give up all of my Christmas money this year for a new scanner. (I'm only 17 so $600 is a whole lot of money for me).

I am having an extremely hard time finding a way that I can try out a Coolscan V or any other nice dedicated 35mm film scanner. I have contacted Photography Labs around my hometown but they have none left that I can try now that Nikon discontinued them. I have talked to other RFF members that live in the same hometown as me with no luck. At this point, Id be willing to send someone that has a Coolscan V a negative in the mail with a blank CD and have them scan it for me so I can have an idea how the Coolscan V compares to my Epson V500. I am just stuck. I must have picked the worst time to want to buy a film scanner with the rise of digital.

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[rover]

Check in with local community colleges. Look for continuing education photography courses and try to get in touch with the teachers. These are not like "real" courses, and the teachers are often just local pro photogs. If you find a course about film photography, great. Contact the teacher (take the course, they are fun) and explain your situation and desire. My bet is that he/she will have a scanner and give you chance to try it out.

 

[venchka]

All I can say is that I use a friend's Epson 4990 for MF and 4x5 and the thing blows me away. That was the model before the V700-V750M. I'm saving my pennies for a V700 and complete set of Betterscanning film holders. Or I'm going to buy the Microtek M1. I can't decide what to do.

Personally, at 17 I'm not sure that I would lock myself into 35mm only. The Epson V700 is going for about $420 right now. You could add the Betterscanning anti-Newton ring glass to the 35mm holders and have change for waht the Nikon scanner costs. Then when you go to MF or LF you'll be all set.

Epson 4990 sample. Ilford 120 PanF+, Pentax 6x7, 45mm Takumar lens. I printed an 8x10 yesterday and it is really nice.

 

[JeremyLangford]

Walmart Scan

Epson V500 Scan

I didn't notice that I was unhappy with the Epson until I compared it with my Walmart scans.

 

[iamzip]

I have learned that what comes out of the machine is only a starting point - You can't just scan some film and expect to get usable pictures. You have to tweak the images in photoshop or some other software. You might find that you just bought an expensive new scanner and still are happy with it - because what you really need is to learn how to tweak.

 

[JeremyLangford]

By the Way, Im completely serious about mailing someone a negative and asking them to scan it for me. Im running out of time before Christmas. If you are a RFF'r with a Nikon Coolscan V and you live in US would you consider doing this?

 

[JeremyLangford]

I have learned that what comes out of the machine is only a starting point - You can't just scan some film and expect to get usable pictures. You have to tweak the images in photoshop or some other software. You might find that you just bought an expensive new scanner and still are happy with it - because what you really need is to learn how to tweak.

This is the reason I want to try one out first.

 

[jfujita]

Yeah, I had a V700 on loan to me for a while. I was dissatisfied with the whole hassle of mounting the annoying holder things and the dust/focus height thing. The dynamic range was weak and I'd get banding and horrible blocked up highlights and shadows. It was a royal pain in the ass. It may be suitable for larger formats but if you're picky about your 135 I think a dedicated scanner is the way to go.

I'm looking to get a Coolscan 5000 so I'm in the same boat.

 

[venchka]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...how good are Y'all's negatives?

The sample above required 4 adjustments in Lightroom:

Fill: 30
Brightness: +20
Contrast: +20
Tone Curve: Pre-set Medium Contrast.

That's it.

I bracketed 3 exposures for that scene. I only scanned one. I'm not sure I scanned the best negative.

Granted, flatbed scanners may not be up to the quality of a dedicated film scanner. But a lot of folks get a lot of good results from them if they have good negatives to start with.

Good luck.

 

[kievman]

The Nikon coolscan i5 is still available form Nikon, its on its website nikonusa.com.
I have a Nikon coolscan 5, If you want me to scan it for you, no problem, but you'll have to pay for the CD and shipping back to you of the Neg - Michael

 

[JeremyLangford]

The Nikon coolscan i5 is still available form Nikon, its on its website nikonusa.com.
I have a Nikon coolscan 5, If you want me to scan it for you, no problem, but you'll have to pay for the CD and shipping back to you of the Neg - Michael

The Coolscan Vs are still on the Nikon Website but Nikon evidently stopped making them so all thats left is what has already been sent out.

 

[ed1k]

I think you'd better to find a film scanner and grab one. That what I did when Minolta went out of this business. Thanks to some RFF member who pointed out the store in Toronto where cheap Minolta Scan Duals were still in stock. In my opinion, any dedicated film scanner will give you better result for 135 film than flatbed. Granted. People at wal-mart use dedicated scanner but they scan automatically with no extra care, but you can't beat them with flatbed anyway. With nikon coolscan you may or may not be better than wal-mart; but that is entirely dependent on your skills of scanning.

If you still want to try, I'd suggest to find some place like a big store not far from your home and drive there. Spend a day but try it yourself. Result of scanning is very dependent on the skills of scanner operator... That's why you may find so many battles and holy wars about best scanning software on internet.

Cheers,
Ed

P.S. venchka, author wants to scan 24x36mm not 60x70mm. But thank you for your example anyway, because I am in search for good'n'cheap scanner for MF, I almost don't shoot 135 format anymore. And main purpose of scanner for me is to decide if particular negative is worth spending time in darkroom. It's like modern two-in-one digital "light table and loupe".

 

[iamzip]

I'm not debating that a dedicated scanner is better than a flatbed, I'm just hoping that the OP doesn't shell out for one and find that he's still dissatisfied with the results - because the problem wasn't the scanner, but rather the lack of adjustment. I've heard that the commercial developers have preset adjustments made to scans, that's why they look relatively ok - but at home you have to do it yourself.

 

[Frank Petronio]

You could get a used Minolta Dual Scan IV for about $300 and save the difference. I haven't compared the Coolscan V side by side, but especially for B&W I bet the Minolta does a comparable job. The Nikon is better built and a new one will have a real warranty, but buying a Minolta from a reliable seller shouldn't be too scary. With most older electronic gadgets, it either works or it doesn't....

On the Rochester, NY Craigslist there is a lady trying to sell her Coolscan V for ~$400, see if you can track her down (it was listed last week I think).

Save a few bucks for VueScan software as well, as the OEM scanner software from Nikon, Minolta, (and all the others too) always sucks.

Photoshop and scanning skills plays a much larger role than any other factor, but scanning 35mm on a consumer >$5000 flatbed is a dead end/waste of time.

 

[mcgrattan]

Unlike some other people, I wasn't massively impressed with the Coolscan 5000. We have one at work, along with a couple of flatbeds [that can do transparencies, like the 10000XL], and, if I am completely honest, I often preferred the results from the flatbeds. Perhaps I never got the best out of the Coolscan and was doing something wrong but I often found the results more grainy and contrasty than I'd like and with an insufficiently smooth tonal range [I did experiment, a lot].

The Coolscan could scan at higher resolution, obviously, but it wasn't resolution I felt I could use since I often ended up downsampling quite a bit in post-processing.

I have had very acceptable results from the earlier Epson Perfection models -- scanning both 35mm and 120.

Matt

 

[35mmdelux]

"Save a few bucks for VueScan software as well, as the OEM scanner software from Nikon, Minolta, (and all the others too) always sucks.

Photoshop and scanning skills plays a much larger role than any other factor, but scanning 35mm on a consumer >$5000 flatbed is a dead end/waste of time.

Frank is right IMO. What you're talking about is incremental improvement and this is a total waste of money.

As a former pro buyer, dont pigeon hole yourself into buying something right now because its xmas. Do the research, track it down.

I find scanning for the web easy (V750) and Im old. Printing is where it gets dicey.

 

[PaulDalex]

Jeremy,
I am glad of this thread. I am more and more unhappy lately with film and scanners.
To worsen things the last negs from the usual far away pro lab are very grainy. Possibly bad chemicals(?)
As to scanners I have never been blowed, not even by the 6x9 negs. I always see soft results.
I don't like to improve postprocessing. Garbage in garbage out.
Nikon 9000ed is very old (shame on nikon), then come the controverse and expensive Imacons.
Then come more serious scanners like the Cezanne. It is not sold in Europe and guess the price? 35K$
I am desperate and do not see a way out.
Given the gap between an Epson and an Imacon, why don't they come out with a better and autofocus model?
Why bothering the user with the indecent idea of finding focus with spacers?
Why Nikon does not adjourn the century old Window98 9000?
To the hell all of them
Cheers
Take a look
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/scan-comparison/

 

[35mmdelux]

BTW I started w a Perfection and then ponied up for the V750. I should have kept the extra $500, given that I take my negs to the lab for printing anyway. The Perfection was more than adequate for the web. Tweaking the right software and a bit of photochop. Im cool.

 

[JeremyLangford]

There are a ton of different opinions over whether the Epsons are good enough compared to the Coolscans. I think it all comes down to post-processing. As you can see from the examples I posted above, I add lots of level adjustments, color adjustments, sharpening etc. in Photoshop to get the result I want. After you start doing stuff like that, the Epson scan will show how bad it really is. The example I posted should show you a major difference.

All I want now is too try out a Coolscan to see how it compares with the two examples I posted above.

 

[venchka]

Acquired skill

Acquired skill

Jeremy,

Scanning is an acquired skill. It takes lots and lots of practice. And then more practice. A few things I've noticed/learned while scanning and scanning and scanning in the hopes of getting half way good at it:

1. Your scanner's, and all other consumer flatbed scanners, hardware peaks at somewhere between 1,800 and 2,400 DPI actual optical resolution. Try scans at those numbers and pick the best results and stay with it.

2. Scanners LOVE thin negatives. Negatives so thin you would think they were unexposed film scan very well. Scanners hate dense negatives.

3. I can't get color to look right from either negatives or positives. I have much better success with B&W, either C-41 or the real thing. I suggest you try some Kodak BW400CN or Ilford XP-2 Super film if you haven't already. If you are developing your own B&W film so much the better.

4. My ancient HP 35mm only scanner won't scan 16 bit grayscale so I use the 48 bit transparency setting and invert in the scanner software. My friend's Epson 4990 will do 16 bit grayscale and those results look good. The next time I use his scanner I will make scans each way and see which works best.

5. Turn off sharpening in the scanner. Personally, I don't use sharpening at all. Not in the scanner. Not in Lightroom. Not in Photoshop. That's probably because I don't know how to do it. Everytime I try to use sharpening I can see the effect and I don't like it.

6. Judge scans by the prints. Pixel peeping a scan at 100% will make you crazy. Printing a decent scan full frame at say 6"x9" (approximate for 35mm full frame) always looks better than what I see on my monitor.

7. I had been using Silverfast AI on the 4990. The last time I used the Epsonscan software. For a dummy like me, the Epsonscan worked famously. I really liked using the densitometer thingie to make sure that my highlights and shadows were included in the histogram.

8. Here is a nice link about using Epsonscan software. http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/scanning.html

9. Are you also searching this forum for what folks are saying about the Nikon 5000 and V?

10. If Betterscanning makes holders for your scanner they may make an improvement.

11. There aren't any magic bullets. If/when you have done everything possible to make the best scans your scanner can make, and you still aren't satisfied, then maybe it's time to look for something else. Personally, the best improvements I have seen with a consumer scanner has been bigger negatives. For the price of the Nikon scanner you could be shooting 6x6 negatives with a nice TLR. 😀 And have lots of money left over for film.

12. I posted a 6x7 sample earlier. Somebody said that was off topic. OK, here's a very recent negative scanned in my HP Model Crappy Scanner.

13. To the person who wanted an autofocus scanner: Microtek makes one. It's called the Artixscan M1 in North America. AT the moment I am having a difficult time trying to decise between it and the Epson V700/750M.

14. When talking about 35mm film and scanners, remember this:

"It's called grain. It's supposed to be there."

15. PS: I come from the "Less is better" school of postprocessing.

Good luck!