Quitting Wall Street To Tell A Prostitute's Story

[Margu]

i think people in the west don't like to see their own poor and the underbelly of their own society, they much prefer to indulge in sentimental voyeurism of poor countries. secondly addiction is a touchy subject, after all isn't GAS an addiction? but more importantly addiction in one form or another is all around us so these images of drug addicts helps to personify that degeneration and people don't like that

but all the idle intellectualism aside, i simply admire the guy's courage. his got a lot of guts to do what he does and that itself makes him a better photographer than a lot of camera carriers out there

 

[aizan]

we westerners are actually endlessly fascinated with looking at "[our] own poor and the underbelly of [our] own society," and we "indulge in sentimental voyeurism" every chance we get. hence these photos and this thread.

 

[Dan Daniel]

we westerners are actually endlessly fascinated with looking at "[our] own poor and the underbelly of [our] own society," and we "indulge in sentimental voyeurism" every chance we get. hence these photos and this thread.

Tourism takes many forms. Many of us are so alienated from ourselves and our socail/civic environment that it's far too easy to view our fellow citizens as creatures in a zoo.

 

[Ranchu]

Right, right. Why ain't the intrepid little adventurer telling Wall Street's story?

 

[Brian Legge]

Right, right. Why ain't the intrepid little adventurer telling Wall Street's story?

Likely because many of those people have a vested interest in crafting an image and wouldn't permit 'honest' photographs and stories to be told about them. And because their work environments probably wouldn't permit much photography at all. And honestly, if its like a lot of tech places, the people are often more homogenous and less interesting, as are their activities.

I work at a software company. Its a generally open, liberal place as they go but I'd probably have to go through legal/etc for each shot I took that I wanted to share to make sure there wasn't anything trade secret-ish in it. Outside of work, most people are at least a bit careful about the image they present and their social standing. Everything would be somewhat whitewashed.

I'm sure a great photographer could present a series out of this - perhaps portraying the underlying sterility of the world but doing so without alienating the subjects may be a challenge.

I get why some people want to step out of their world and find another to document and share.

 

[Ranchu]

Like a vacation. Like a safari. Look at the heroin addicts, let's tsk tsk and piously intone there but for blah go I. How convenient it is to have an object/abject counter example for us all to discuss and so learn more about ourselves and our place in the world.

“When I was a junkie it was a lot easier to find someone to buy me lunch than it was to find someone who gave a **** about who I was.”

http://arnade.tumblr.com/

 

[Brian Legge]

Eh, if you read some of his writing, he's know some of these people for a few years. I can't read this and see the photos which go along with it: (from http://arnade.tumblr.com/post/71049130880/christmas-eve-working-the-streets - reposting here to be sure those only reading the thread have context):

Two years ago today Diane was sitting against the sign of the Hunts Point 7-11. We spoke for over an hour. Her story, now all too familiar to me, was of early trauma, addiction, and then street prostitution. She started at 19.

As we spoke a police car pulled up. They asked why I was talking to her. I explained and asked if they wanted to see the pictures on my camera.

They laughed, “Why would I want to look at pictures of that ugly bitch.”

I thought of being nasty back, but an Xmas eve in the Bronx Criminal Court didn’t seem all that appealing. In retrospect I should have done it.

Diana and I went into the 7-11 to buy food. The man behind the counter tried to kick her out. I told him, “**** off, she is with me.”

I didn’t see Diane again until exactly one year later, on the last Christmas Eve. She remember me and apologized about the police.

I went today. I did not find her. I am both disappointed and relieved. I hope she is doing well. I hope she is with her three children in Arizona. I hope she found “What any girl wants, a decent man. I don’t care what he looks like. I just want someone to help me rest. To end my life in peace.”

I hope she is having a Christmas Eve spent in a home, not on the streets. I hope she is in a place where others don’t judge her. That would be a nice Christmas gift.

Here is another a few posts down: http://arnade.tumblr.com/post/70291123609/i-am-more-than-just-a-naked-prostitute-who-smokes

...and then just write him off as someone turning a profit or looking at people as objects. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Assuming the quotes and stories aren't full on fabrication, people want their stories told.

 

[Ranchu]

Dude's writing makes my skin crawl, man.

 

[Emile de Leon]

The photos either move you ...or they dont..
They moved me..and I respect the guy for that..and for taking them..dont care if he is rich or poor..or where he came from...
I think his critics..have a problem with this sort of thing..that they readily create in their own minds...and their criticisms..are merely a reflection of their own inadequacies ..or more to the point..a projection.. of their own personal feelings towards the subject..
In other words..they are interiorly exactly what they speak of...exploitation..but they are blind to this within themselves..so they think they see it in anothers work..but not themselves..and it just rubs them the wrong way..and they get mad..
It falls on fertile ground..
What you despise in another...you are yourself guilty of in some regard..whether consciously ..or not..
If you see this in yourself..then you understand in others..whats really going on..w/o blaming them for anything.
The worker for the poor...thinking they are helping them...would be lost w/o the poor....as much as a cop...w/o a criminal...
Those who criticize this guy imo..are just not seeing the reality too well..or on an incredible ego trip..

 

[fireblade]

isn't there some wanker magnum tog who lived with a pro in Thailand and became an addict while doing his "thing" as a tog.....forgot his name, a frenchman i think....and they all praise him.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

google turned up another recent story on rosie holtom, whose approach is different:

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddes...omeless-people
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68473745@N08/

makes for an interesting compare and contrast. what are your thoughts on how they approach their subjects as either "just another person like me" vs. "these people live in a very different world than me"?

I know just a little about homeless people, having worked with a charity that seeks to help them a long time ago. Here's the thing, they are not just the "pretty faces" of Holtom's work or the glossed over colour of Arnade's.

They are young, sometimes very young and middle aged and old. Most of them stink, because it's very difficult to keep clean if you sleep in a doorway several nights a week. A lot have mental problems, sometimes because they were ill and thus became homeless and some because the trauma of being homeless has made them ill. They also have plenty of physical illness, if only because they seldom get enough to eat.

Many of them are impossible to help because we simply won't put the facilities in place for the very great effort that would be required to do so. A small number really don't want help because they've chosen this for themselves. All we can ever do for the latter group is give them a good meal, when they want it, and accept their decission.

Now, if things had gone just a little different for me, I might well have been one of those needing help, rather than one of the lucky people trying to help them.

So, I personally, do not think these pictures achieve anything for the homeless, the druggies, the prostitutes or any of the other "street people". Instead, I find myself suspicious of the motives of the photographers.

I'm sorry if this goes against anyone else's deep held beliefs about the power of the image or the redeemability of mankind but I feel that the realities are way beyond the ability of any set of pictures to make the slightest difference to the lives of these people and I think it to be the worst kind of arrogance to pretend that it could.

 

[Michael Markey]

I'm sorry if this goes against anyone else's deep held beliefs about the power of the image or the redeemability of mankind but I feel that the realities are way beyond the ability of any set of pictures to make the slightest difference to the lives of these people and I think it to be the worst kind of arrogance to pretend that it could.

I fully agree .
If you really want to help get out there and do something practical.
Someone commented earlier about hiding behind a computer screen ...you could equally extend that to hiding behind a camera.
Doesn`t wash .... arrogance of the worst kind indeed.
It makes no difference if you use a summilux or a twenty quid lens you`d be more effective helping the various charities who are trying to bring some relief to blighted lives.

 

[Sparrow]

... I would argue that the photojournalism coming out of Europe and North Africa in the 1930's did in fact make a difference ... although I'm not arguing this chap is of that order

 

[DominikDUK]

Honestly this thread reminded me what ignorants we all are we constantly talk about the homeless, the drug addicts, the prostitutes as if they were all the same and not individuals. Some prostitute/homeless/drug addict may feel that the images are exploitive some others will feel better and some won't care either way. But let's start to see them as what they are individuals.

Micheal most charities rely on images to get money for their cause.

 

[Michael Markey]

Micheal most charities rely on images to get money for their cause.

True enough ...I was getting a bit carried away with the argument 😱.
As was the point Stewart made.
I guess what I feel is that still photography is maybe less effective in this regard as it once was and I begin to wonder about its value as a vehicle for social change.

I was suggesting that there were more effective tools in the box .

 

[DominikDUK]

Actually the worst thing that can happen is no pictures, there were no pictures from the KZ in the medias if there were you can be sure that both the German and International public would have reacted very differently. Another Genocide without pictures was Rwanda the first images came after the massacres not during and not before. It's important to note that the pictures have to be published in some form or they are imo useless. Publishing in Social medias might help to some degree I am still not sure how effective they really are and how much is hype. The arab spring was mostly hype but other changes were done with the help of social media

 

[jsrockit]

that is not street. he has established a relationship with his subjects. if you "street" those people, most likely there will be an altercation with the photographer on the losing side.

It is street... you have a warped definition of what street can be. He's out on the street making photos. Have you ever tried photographing on the streets? Some of the people you assume will start an altercation are some of the nicest people out there.

photographs are about a photographer when he/she photographs something that does not resonate with others, 99% of the boring photographs on the internet

They are about the photographer when they are marketed as "Photos by {insert name} ...

 

[jsrockit]

No, he is no "Street Photographer" as we define it,
But, it is a documentary the best he knew at the time.
He took a huge risk with his life --
A White guy with a camera in a prominently Black area in the Bronx, with a huge unemployment and crime rate.
(much more than many here would ever think of doing).. This guy has Balls, and compassion.

Have you been to the area he is taking photos? I have numerous times as have a few others here. It's not the war zone you are making it out to be. I would not go there at night though.

 

[jsrockit]

i think people in the west don't like to see their own poor and the underbelly of their own society...

If you live in a major city and don't want to just stay inside, you will not be able to avoid it.

 

[Margu]

They are about the photographer when they are marketed as Photos by {insert name} ...

when a photo taker is living inside a bunker in their own mind and have no regard for what others think or take from their photos, now or in the future, then their photography is all about them... and the same way that all conversions which start with "i'm etc. etc..." the same way all their photos are yawn inducing and of no interest to others. people don't care what "i" is thinking or feeling, people only care for what affects them, in other words what is the common theme and concern.

you have a warped definition of what street can be.

i have no definition for what street photography is, the same way that i have no definition for going out on a walk or window shopping, or thinking that i have a license to annoy people on the street because i have a camera in my hand.