Replacing a Zeiss Ikon with a Leica M3

russelljtdyer

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Since early 2012, I have been migrating my camera equipment to an all Leica M system (see Almost Everything Must Go). I've sold all of my SLR cameras and lenses and acquired a Leica M9 and a Zeiss Ikon camera, with three Leica M lenses (21, 50, and 90mm) and a Zeiss ZM lens (35mm). It's a nice kit. I'm very pleased with my choices.

Although I like the Zeiss Ikon very much, I have been looking fondly at the Leica M4-P for the past couple of years--ever since I handled one at a local camera store. I've been thinking of replacing my Zeiss Ikon with one. I've also been considering the other Leica M film cameras.

About a month ago, I met a woman in Milan whose husband died a few years ago. He owned several cameras, including a few Leica cameras and lenses. She wants to sell them since she never uses them. I agreed to take inventory of what she has and to go with her to a local camera store to get them to sell the equipment on consignment.

In the batch of cameras is a Leica M3 double-stroke camera (see photo below) that she let me borrow. I've only had it for a couple of days and shot only one roll of film--which hasn't even been developed yet--but I like the camera so much. It's so sweet. Because it feels so good to hold, it makes me want to take plenty of pictures. I'm going to buy it from her and maybe sell my Zeiss Ikon.

russelljtdyer-27042015-rangefinders-leica-m3-new.jpg


Maybe I should keep both film cameras, but I'm trying not to have more equipment than I use regularly. Probably, I shouldn't buy the Leica M3. But I want it and I think it's the better film camera.

I do prefer some of the features that the Zeiss Ikon has over the Leica M3: a bright, large viewfinder; a built-in TTL light metering; and an aperture-priority setting for automatic shutter speed. It also has a hot-shoe flash connection on top and a small window on the back to see the film cartridge inside.

There are some aspects of the Leica M3 over the Zeiss Ikon that I like: a cooler look; a nicer feel when holding it; a slightly smaller size; a self-timer shutter release; large 50mm frame lines; all mechanical (i.e., no battery) functions; an external flash PC connector, which I prefer over a hot-shoe; and a much quieter shutter because of the rubberized canvas curtain--I like to do street photography.

The main feature that I will miss if I sell the Zeiss Ikon will be the built-in light meter with aperture-priority settings for the shutter. Instead, I'll have to judge for myself or use my Sekonic LH-358 light meter. Carrying that meter cancels out the smaller size feature of the camera. Plus, the shutter speed measurements on the light meter won't always line up with the shutter dial on the Leica M3: this one has the older settings (i.e., 1, 2, 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, etc.). But I can adjust to that fairly quickly.

By the way, the photo above shows the camera with a Leica 50mm collapsable lens. I'm not buying it since I already have an excellent 50mm Leica lens. It also had a light meter that was attached to the top. Since that thing ruins the cool look of the camera, I won't be using it.

I'm not sure what I'll do, but for now I've adopted the Leica M3 and added it to my equipment list. I have some time before I have to pay her, but unless the photos look a mess when they're developed, I'll probably buy it. I can decide later about selling the Zeiss Ikon.
 
There seem to be good reasons to keep both... and they're also very different animals. If I were you, I'd try to keep both. The Ikon is a camera for well-metered photographs, but the M3 is a camera to enjoy (and also they make you feel smarter). Why do you think you must sell one? By adding just one to your lineup you'll have three completely different photographic experiences (one digital, one AE film, and one completely manual). That's a lot of nice choices to me...

However, one thing you'll need is a hand-held meter, and for that I'd recommend an old, nice thing: a Sekonic L-86. They're tough, never need batteries (they have selenium cells) and they're also fairly precise. Naysayers will come up with the thing that their performance in low light or their sensitivity range is narrow... but then, come on, who shoots in the dark? Then you'll have a VERY nice system. 🙂
 
I had an earlier cousin to the 358 and got a Sekonic 318 to carry. Still bigger than the ZI but closer. I found the ability to have incident and semi-spot worked very well, for me. There also are attachments for different smart phones (white globes) that turn them into a very cool incident meter. Add about $25 USD for the dome/adapter to a $7 USD app (iOS or Android) and you are all set with something you carry with you anyway.

I'd buy the M3 and sell the ZI, but that is me. The M3 is a classic and it looks to be in EXCELLENT condition. You can always buy another ZI three years out if you really find the need for it. My guess is you will get a GREAT deal on the M3.

B2 (;->
 
You know you want that M3, so just buy it. Nobody says that you have to sell the ZI just because you bought an M3. But, if you have both, then you have your time to decide which one to sell (if you really must sell one).
 
For the light meter, get an MR or MR-4 meter. It makes handling the shutter speed dial of the M3 much easier.

If you must sell something, get rid of the digital camera. That one depreciates the fastest.
 
I own both cameras. The M3 is certainly a very nice camera and I do enjoy using it. I have kept them both. But if I did have to make a decision and sell one it would the M3.

Why? Because the ZI is a much better practical shooter. I can tell at a glance what film is inside. It is lighter to pack around. It is faster to reload. The meter makes a huge difference when I am working in tough lighting circumstances. The ability to use aperture priority exposure along with a very quick + or - exposure compensation system can make a big difference in fast shooting scenarios. And finally, that viewfinder is absolutely awesome!!

But on the other hand that M3 is such a boootiful camera I think I'll hold onto it too.

Also, you should take everything I have said here with a big grain of salt because I have recently been shooting almost exclusively with my Leica M-A, another meterless, mechanical, Leica M film camera. 😀
 
It's really a matter of personal taste. there's no right answer or working. If you don't need to sell one keep both. I've owned three M3's, 2DS and 1SS, but don'r own one at the moment. I owned a ZM that I bought new and used for several years and sold it. There's an attraction to the M3 even now but in reality the ZM is a much more refined camera and has a very fine RF. I actually prefer the ZM RF to all other RF's as to being big, bright and accurate. Unfortunately the body of the ZM doesn't have that solid feel like the M's but I think that's just a function of newer lighter modern materials that it's made of.

The downside from my perspective to the M3 is it's old. M3's RF's have a history of deteriorating and the focusing patch fading. Shutters are old and probably need a CLA which is costly and if the RF fades it's very pricy to resilver or replace. It looks as though your M3 is a DS. It's again a matter of preference but I never liked the DS.

If I could own both then I'd buy the M3 and keep the ZM. Both are excellent and fun to use.

By the way I'm still shooting your old CL and enjoying it. I leave it in the console of my Jeep with a 50 Nikkor f2 on it most of the time.
 
I own both cameras. The M3 is certainly a very nice camera and I do enjoy using it. I have kept them both. But if I did have to make a decision and sell one it would the M3.

Why? Because the ZI is a much better practical shooter. I can tell at a glance what film is inside. It is lighter to pack around. It is faster to reload. The meter makes a huge difference when I am working in tough lighting circumstances. The ability to use aperture priority exposure along with a very quick + or - exposure compensation system can make a big difference in fast shooting scenarios. And finally, that viewfinder is absolutely awesome!!

But on the other hand that M3 is such a boootiful camera I think I'll hold onto it too.
Really a tough tough question but I agree with Pioneer. No i don't, yes I do......on and on.
 
Hi, i left all my m3´s the prism glue life is getting to an end, i´ve seen three that this 6 months got separated after light vibrations. One separated after a trip of 4 hours in a bag insidee a car and the other werent abused.

I would go for an m4 or later.
 
Two very different cameras. As other posters have said, the ZI is a better street camera. It also has a clearer and brighter viewfinder. There are other issues as well - no 35 frame in the M3, so you'll have to buy a supplemental finder or guess the framing. I have both, love both, and use the ZI much more than the M3. Since I don't have to, I won't get rid of either.
 
I have owned a M3 since 1967.
It is my favorite M. Used way more than my "new" 15yrs, M6.
The main problem of M3 is no 35mm frame, but there are Goggle lenses. I use the 35mm Summaron 2.8 which I found to give for me, nicer results than my 35mm Goggle Summicron..
I have always used a meter on top, now with selenium cell.
The main drawback of a Leica M3 is the finder and aging glues.
Depending on your usage, price paid, possible CTR- due to non usage, it might still be a worthwhile purchase.

What could you buy for same money?
What will give you the same pleasure?

I say keep the ZI, it's newer, has Auto, selling may not bring a whole lot of funds..
OH, see the discussion about the Collapsible Summicron!
I have used one the last 48 yrs!
I have tested it against newer Summicrons and an Elmar.
Sure a lil sharper but for portraits, at wider apertures a winner.
I actually bought the M6TTL in 2000, assuming my M3 on "last legs". It has suffered 3 more services and clicks on..
 
Final Price: Zero

Final Price: Zero

When I started this brief thread, I was considering buying a Leica M3 from a friend of mine. She was selling several Leica cameras and lenses that belonged to her husband who died a few years ago. I was assisting her to organize the equipment and to determine the value of each before selling them at a local store. I borrowed her M3 just to try it, but then became attached to it and wanted to buy it. I then started thinking about whether to sell my Zeiss Ikon to pay for the new camera.

Before settling on a price, I tested the camera for several days and discovered some problems. I started another thread regarding the problems I was experiencing, looking for advice on how to resolve them and then how much I should pay for the camera given its problems.

Based on all of the responses, I agreed yesterday on the price and terms with my friend. However, this morning she sent me a message on WhatsApp saying that she's changed her mind about the price. She doesn't want me to pay for the camera. She just wants to give it to me as a present. I was so surprised. I didn't know how to respond and didn't for a few hours.

It's very sweet of her. When I did reply, I challenged her on the idea, but she was set on me not paying her. In case you're wondering, we're not romantically involved. We're just friends, although we have known each other only for about two months. She's just a nice person.

As I think about this gift and think about the gifts that I have received from others over the course of my life, I think this is one of the nicest and definitely the most expensive gift anyone has ever given me. Actually, I mused about this five years ago in a thread started by Rob Biemer. His family was giving him a Leica M2 camera for his birthday. I said how nice it would be to get such a good camera as a gift, and how fortunate he was that anyone would give him such a nice gift.

And now I have one. It's a gift far better than the ex-wife ever gave me and better than the gifts from all of the girlfriends or the mother. And it's not even my birthday and she's not even a girlfriend--nor has she been a friend for long. I thanked her for it this morning, but I didn't thank her very much, not as much as I should. Maybe it's because I have very little practice in this area, or because I'm not sure how to express my gratitude by WhatsApp so that she'll understand in so few characters in a telephone text message. I'll have to wait until I see her again in a few days. But, I am very grateful.
 
Wow, I just might break down and make some friends.

Congratulations, I've two of each. I don't need two, just an irrational response to my love for both cameras. The viewfinder magnification makes them a perfect complementary pair.
 
Russell,

You have thanked her here on RFF - amongst like minded RF fellow travellers.
Let her know this and that we're happy for both of you.
Your lady friend for such a wonderful gesture
Your good self - for patience and your pondering is now well rewarded.

John
 
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