Replacing the Bronica SQ - Rollei 6000?

[Takkun]

As I tend to drop in here every few months, hope all is well with everyone and you're getting out shooting.

Unfortunately for myself, on one of those outings, my brand-new tripod and light meter, and entire Bronica SQ kit was presumed stolen last month. Obviously a shame, as I'd had the kit for a decade and change. Body was held together with gaffers tape but the lenses were pristine...

The good news: insurance covered the tripod and meter, and valued the kit at a whopping $2600 in replacement value.

Honestly, I've downsized my 35 SLR kit and shifted most of my film work to the beastly GX680. There was a bit of relief in having one less system taking up closet space (that is increasingly looking like a used camera store). But that fat reimbursement has me thinking I may as well replace it. I miss 6x6 (as does my back muscles).

My budget is far larger than I would have ever expected now, and that got me to thinking about the late Rollei 6000 series, particularly the 6008 and associated Zeiss and Rolleinar lenses. The only parts of kit that were at home were an old 220 back and a Polaroid back, obviously no reason to stick with Bronica.

Of course, its a far more electronicized body, with motor drive and metering built in. Uses proprietary rechargeable batteries, something I've always hated in the digital era. It looks quite a bit taller, and is probably heavier to boot.

On the positive side, builtin metering with the WLF is nice, there appear to be more options for service, and...those lenses.

Or I could just go back to the trusty Bronica. It served me well through two rounds of photo school, fit in my bag pretty well, and I think I replaced batteries maybe twice, ever.

Or other systems to consider, like the newer Mamiya 645 or Contax series. I'm less jazzed about 645—I just like square format—but i could be convinced.

 

[Mackinaw]

I have a Rolleiflex 6006 with a few lenses and 120 backs. It's a superbly designed 120 SLR camera. With built-in automation and motor drive, the camera is always ready. It's pretty much a studio camera with me, mainly due to its weight. The biggest negative (excuse the bad pun) are the batteries. The original NiCads are pretty much useless and obsolete. But Rollei U.S. does offer a NiMh replacement battery that is much better. That's what I use. Great camera system that takes great pics.

Jim B.

 

[pthornto]

What about a later model Hasselblad? Same format and travels well. Easier to find service than the Rollei and mechanical models will likely be longer lived. I agree the 6000 series cameras are innovative and have some great glass, I would just be thinking long term durability could be a concern.

 

[Takkun]

Jim—

Ah yes, I definitely know the battery conundrum...when I bought the 680, I specifically sought out the Mk.III and matching back for that reason. Jury-rigging the main battery and dissecting the film back to get to its own internal battery was worth the (very small) added cost of getting a camera that used regular CR123s.

Fortunately, the listing I have my eye on (a 6008 SRC1000) does come with a couple of the modern Li-Ion packs and charger.

You say it primarily lives in the studio; do you find this camera body particularly large and heavy? I would imagine its obviously somewhere in the middle between a 6x45 and a 6x7, but I would hope its carry-able. I've jury-rigged a strap onto the Fuji, so anything's better than that! That's my studio (or more accurately, architecture) camera.

pthornto—Definitely an idea. I'd like some bit of electronic bits, but I hadn't even considered a Hassy. Who wouldn't want one?

 

[Mackinaw]

.....You say it primarily lives in the studio; do you find this camera body particularly large and heavy? .......

Yes, I do find my 6006 to be heavy. Bulky too. If I want to shoot square format 120 in the field, I use my Yashica Mat 124G. Much more manageable.

But the 6008 offers a nifty accessory grip that makes handling much easier. i had access to a 6008 many years back, and that grip makes all the difference in the world. Unfortunately, it doesn't fit on a 6006.

Still, I use my 6006 a lot. A great camera.

Jim B.

 

[aizan]

DW still repairs the 6000 series, so I'm less iffy about buying them. I got a 6008i for my brother, and he loves it.

https://www.dw-photo.eu/service.html

 

[Takkun]

Hmmm. All good points, and especially re: repairs. Again, I don’t need yet another system (I just had two friends/family go mirrorless and dump on me their Nikon and Canon digital kits, respectively) but I don’t want to leave insurance money on the table, of course.

Of course, my ideal would be a Mamiya 6–nice gap between the GX and small format, but a full setup is just out of reach. Wish I could test drive them all...my local shop used to rent all of the above years ago, but now they just have a 503 kit. $20 for a weekend isn’t too bad.

 

[Godfrey]

Despite a twenty-plus year long fascination and obsession with the Rollei 6x6 SLR cameras, when the opportunity presented itself to me 19 years ago, I bought a Hasselblad 500CM instead. The simple, steam-punk feel of the mechanical camera and the superb quality of its lenses are good enough, and (with waist level finder and normal Planar 80mm lens) it's light and easily carried anywhere. And, by the standards of today's modern equipment, good used Hasselblad V system equipment is a bargain. Service is pretty easily available for most things, and with a bit of ingenuity and learning you can do most simple repairs yourself.

I've never regretted it. It's equipment that sticks around and can serve for decades more with little other than occasional service, for both film and digital capture.

G

 

[Takkun]

After some online research, I am finding it hard to find a Hassy in my budget, really, and don't want to go over too particularly much. Got a few other photo-related things I need to spend on in the near future (i.e., things for the cameras I actually use to make money). Shame, because they are such bedrock cameras. Equally a shame that the V system is apparently no longer in production. I see why they're coveted.


And here I am no closer to a decision! Theres a pristine SQ-B kit with all my lost lenses and then some (though curiously WLFs go for insane prices). There's a few reasonably priced Rollei lenses that interest me.

It'd be a lock on the Rollei to try something new if it weren't for my hesitancy over its size and noise. Once I put a WLF on the Bronica, it was just as portable as any DSLR and big zoom. Looks like the 6000 is quite a bit taller. Then again, since I've been without tripod, I've been handholding the Fuji, and anything's lighter than that refrigerator-sized brick.

Re: reliability and mechanical parts, it's a concern but not a primary one. Mechanical is great, but still relies on parts availability. And having seen the guts after the bottom plate fell off, the SQ isn't too terribly complex by today's standards. Obviously the 6000 is far more so, but it's nice knowing DHW still does service (not to mention still makes the Hy6).

Part of me wants to just grab a late model Mamiya 645 and be done with it, but I just love that 6x6 (and don't really care for TLRs)

 

[Vince Lupo]

How about an S2a? The prices aren’t too hateful and the lenses can be had for cheap. I have one and I love it. Very reliable.

Other alternative might be an SL66 - now that is a gorgeous camera. Plus no batteries to worry about 🙂

 

[Bob Michaels]

Takkum: what did your beloved Bronica not do that you wanted done? Was there anything you felt was lacking? Was it not the epitome of reliability? Why not just replace it with a similar Bronica kit? Or, are you really just jonesing for something with more pizzaz?

I have a friend who has a camera repair business and is considered a bit of a Hasselblad guru. He never had to do anything to my Bronica SQA admitting they were more reliable just not having the panache.

The only downside to buying an old Bronica system now is that a few parts are becoming hard to find. You mentioned WLFs being expensive. They were expensive several years ago when I bent my up and was looking to replace it. Finally muscled mine back to where it still worked, just not as smoothly as new. And winding cranks were always hard to find. Looked for a year but found a NOS one in a camera store for $1.50.

 

[Bill Clark]

Don’t the Rollei use nicad batteries?

 

[Takkun]

Bob, I always appreciate you being a voice of reason on gear threads! You make a good point. I don't remember exactly, but my SQ was an early-80s specimen, a few years older than myself, and probably in better shape. Despite various bits taped together, it really never gave me trouble. Not bad for something nearly 40.

It's reassuring your technician hasn't had to work on them. Like I said, they may be electronic, but there's not a whole heck of a lot to go wrong. None of those pesky ribbon cables or PCBs packed tight together.

You're right—with the budget my insurance gave me, I am looking for a little more pizazz, as you put it, or maybe just something different. I miss the days working the used desk at a local camera shop where I had free reign to take home and play to my hearts content.

The scarcity may be why my claim was so much in the first place: they listed replacement value on the finder at $400 alone. Compare that to the Fuji, which I got a whole kit for around $150. I'll keep searching and see what comes up...

 

[astrobuoy]

I thought I might chime in. The 6003 does much of what the 6008 can do, but is slightly lighter and less chunky (the back that comes with it is slimmer). There's a myth that seems to have continued around the internet that the 6003 SRC 1000 can't take swappable backs, but in fact it can––I use (well, used) a second Magasin 6000 with a built-in darkslide, which is a bit thicker than the stock back.

Even still, the 6003 is heavier than a Hasselblad. But what it has that I wish my Hasselblad had is the side grip, which makes it much easier to work with, and since I mostly use the prism finder the height of the camera compared to the Hassie works for me as well. But that grip––I love that you can meter and focus with the small sliding switches on the grip too, so that one hand can focus while the other does everything else you need to.

Still, after a 7 year hiatus where a photographer friend borrowed my Hassie and we both kept moving around so I couldn't get it back, two months after I put together this 6003 kit she mailed it back to me out of the blue, and when deciding between the cameras I ultimately found I missed my Hasselblad more and wanted to take that out. I don't know why. Maybe it's sentimental value? The drop in weight is nice, though I've only been shooting on a tripod. I suppose I like the mechanical nature of the Hasselblad and don't particularly care about the motorized film advance on the Rollei, even while I REALLY wish the Hassie had the in-body metering and grip that the Rollei has, or the option for 1/1000th top speed with the 80mm lens. I suppose it comes down to which features you value more, as in some ways neither camera is perfect, though the lenses are basically the same (I wish I could've gotten my hands on the Schneider 80mm lens for the Rollei, but alas).

 

[astrobuoy]

Also, it's not a problem to upgrade any of the old Rollei batteries to NiMh. Eric at Rolleiflex US sells the new charger that goes with it, and I sent the old batteries to Dave Feely at Key Camera in Colorado (Eric's recommended service center) to recell the batteries to NiMh. Batteries have been a real achilles heel for the system, but hopefully this should sort things out for a good while.

 

[randy stewart]

SQ replacement

SQ replacement

While it is not in line with your thinking, let me suggest that you take some time to try a Bronica ETRSi system. It is not 6x6, but a lot of 6x6 get cropped down. It is marginally smaller and lighter than other cameras being recommended, and it is very fast operating with its "speed grip". The better line of lenses for it are excellent. Further, it appears to be selling at relative bargain prices, and the lenses and accessories are generally more available. The Rollei 6000 series is too tied to its power supply for my taste, but that's just me. I have to say that I do not own the Bronica system. I looked hard at it as alternative to the Pentax 645 as I was trying to down size from my Pentax 67 system. Between the two, I'd opt for the Bronica. In the end, I concluded that at 74, I should just put my wallet back in my pocket and fight the urge to acquire more stuff. I bought a Fuji GA645Zi as a compromise.

 

[Mackinaw]

Also, it's not a problem to upgrade any of the old Rollei batteries to NiMh. Eric at Rolleiflex US sells the new charger that goes with it, and I sent the old batteries to Dave Feely at Key Camera in Colorado (Eric's recommended service center) to recell the batteries to NiMh. Batteries have been a real achilles heel for the system, but hopefully this should sort things out for a good while.

It does. I had Dave Feely convert one of my old NiCad batteries to NiMh earlier this year. What a difference. Finally, a long lasting and reliable battery. Well worth the $70.00 it cost me.

Jim B.

 

[PRJ]

You only live once.

The Rollei has a few things going for it. Better than Hasselblad frankly. The straight pull of the film means it never curls around rollers and stays flat. That ain't no joke. The integrated darkslides are super nice too. Can't lose them, drop them, bend them....The battery thing is overblown. The NiCad batteries were terrible, but NiMh work great and last, and I've even seen LiPo batteries used. The meter is in the camera so no matter what finder you have on it you are good. The handle really works great and can be manipulated into different positions. It has two shutter releases. One on the handle and one on the front. And of course the lenses. Forgettaboutit...

I'd say if you want one, get one. You won't ever do it again. It is a far better camera than the SQ. And the lenses are as well. Consider it as a gift from the universe that your SQ was stolen and the insurance company was so generous...

 

[aizan]

Another option that’s off the beaten path is the Exakta 66 (the latest version). It’s a splurge item.

Or new in box SQ-Ai gear.

 

[Takkun]

Ah, you're all making this very difficult.

I did consider a number of other systems. Not too particularly interested in 645, though I've used the Mamiya Pro TL and did quite like it. Also turned down a SL66 about a year ago when it was presented to me, as I'd just acquired the Fuji.

Batteries don't scare me. And it sounds like those that have the Rollei, well, really, really love it. It is a bit of a dream film camera, for sure. The downside? lenses look to be pretty scarce. I'm seeing a lot of very expensive Schneider 40mms out there. Maybe I'd be happy with just an 80 and 150.

OTOH, I see a very, very nice SQ-AI that, miraculously, has an unscathed focus screen. That was another casualty of my theft: the NIB screen I had spent months searching for and $120 to purchase...