RIP Fujifilm Pro 400H

As a slide-shooter, I have always feared that color transparency film would disappear first. I'm heartened that Fuji continues to offer Provia and Velvia (though Astia would be nice, too).

I'm sorry that you Fuji C41 users have been deprived of another film that you counted on.

- Murray
 
Freakscene said:
It is probably one of the coloured colour couplers. Colour negative film works by having layers that are sensitive to colours but also have their own colour which filters the light that is left to move on to the next layer and they are have couplers for a third colour*. These are very complicated light sensitive ionic-organic molecules and synthesising them to necessary standards is difficult and expensive. They also don’t really have other uses so without volume there aren’t other end users keeping the manufacturing going.

*For instance, one layer in 400H was a “Green sensitive layer containing yellow coloured magenta coupler”.

Marty
Click to expand...

Fascinating info, Marty, thanks for sharing!

With the original Fuji Acros 100, one of the rumors was that a "hard to source" raw material was gelatin made from whale bone or whale oil. Of course, commercial whaling is banned, but Japan is one of the countries that object(ed) to the ban and continued whaling for "research purposes". I don't know how much actual validity there was to that rumor. But then again, the esteemed Photo Engineer (aka Ron Mowrey) noted Fuji's use of polymers to replace gelatin for polymeric couplers...

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/acros-reciprocity.153198/

Fuji was experimenting with polymers as replacements for all or part of their gelatin. In fact, there are indications that they used it in their color films in the form of polymeric couplers. They have also experimented with fish gelatin.
Click to expand...
 
dourbalistar said:
Fascinating info, Marty, thanks for sharing!

With the original Fuji Acros 100, one of the rumors was that a "hard to source" raw material was gelatin made from whale bone or whale oil. Of course, commercial whaling is banned, but Japan is one of the countries that object(ed) to the ban and continued whaling for "research purposes". I don't know how much actual validity there was to that rumor. But then again, the esteemed Photo Engineer (aka Ron Mowrey) noted Fuji's use of polymers to replace gelatin for polymeric couplers...

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/acros-reciprocity.153198/
Click to expand...

I don’t know for sure, but the chance that it was a product from whales that became unavailable that ended Acros production are extremely low. Apart from anything else Fuji was able to produce Acros II which is functionally identical to Acros, without any apparent problem, but at 2x the cost of the last batches of Acros. Perhaps it was cost rather than absolute availability. I do know for certain that Neopan 400 was canned because it contained PFOS as an antistatic and wetting agent.

I don’t like whaling, commercial or ‘research’ (I am a marine research scientist by profession) in international waters (national waters harvests of non-migratory species and indigenous subsistence hunts using non-industrial means are different) but there is no reason to look at whale products when there is a huge supply of suitable photographic gelatin from cattle.

Marty
 
It's not about being short of materials or "difficult" processes.

This is neither surprising or strange, Fuji has been on its way out of film for the past 10 years, slashing film after film, while continually reassuring the photographers that "Fuji continue to support film."

I have the freezer full, also of various Fuji stuff, so I am good.

Just be keenly aware that Acros will be slashed again soon, because the only analog photography Fuji will actually support, is the crappy Instax, nothing else.
And that will be killed as well, as soon as the fad vanes...

Stock up and freeze, that is the only way to go, sadly.
 
The whole "Fuji is lying" narrative has always been based on only one thing, the fact that the last time they made a decision that people didn't like, those people back then said "Fuji is lying", and they based it on nothing more than repeating what people said the time before that, "Fuji is lying." It's turtles all the way down. No evidence at all, just turtles.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
The whole "Fuji is lying" narrative has always been based on only one thing, the fact that the last time they made a decision that people didn't like, those people back then said "Fuji is lying", and they based it on nothing more than repeating what people said the time before that, "Fuji is lying." It's turtles all the way down. No evidence at all, just turtles.
Click to expand...

I have seen their press releases, where they state as they kill a film, mind you, that they most certainly continue support film.


Can you really not see the hypocritical lie and insult that is?

You only need to look at the lineup of films from Fuji 10 years ago, and today and ask yourself if it is a truth or a lie that Fuji "continue to support film".
 
I was talking to one of the old hands at Adorama some years ago and the Fuji film quandary arose. His answer, conveyed with great certitude and braggadocio of an "insider", was that Fuji ended film production years ago and froze it all. Once they depleted the supply of a particular emulsion, they'd release the usual Japanese-style vague regret and assurances of "continued support for film" whilst killing it by a thousand cuts.

Kind of discounted him until the "rebirth" of Acros II, "Made in Britain" by Ilford.
 
znapper said:
I have seen their press releases, where they state as they kill a film, mind you, that they most certainly continue support film.


Can you really not see the hypocritical lie and insult that is?

You only need to look at the lineup of films from Fuji 10 years ago, and today and ask yourself if it is a truth or a lie that Fuji "continue to support film".
Click to expand...

Fuji’s press release said, ‘FUJIFILM PRO 400H film is a unique product that is coated with a fourth layer – requiring specialized raw materials and chemicals. As it has become increasingly difficult to procure the raw materials needed to produce PRO 400H, we regret to inform you that after careful consideration, Fujifilm has made the difficult business decision to discontinue PRO 400H.’

In response to that, someone said, “It (the discontinuance .ed) is not about being short of materials or "difficult" processes.” which sounded all the world to me like accusing Fuji of lying about their “real” reason for discontinuing the film. This happens all the time. No matter what Fuji supplies as a reason for discontinuing a film, there are always voices raised to claim, without any evidence at all, that the reason supplied by Fuji is not the “real” reason. It’s puzzling, this certainty.

I have no idea if Fuji is “lying” or not, but neither does anyone else as far as I have ever been able to tell. As someone else here noted, Fuji keeps it pretty close to the vest and there are never any leaks from inside the company to contradict the official reasons given, so we’re left to either accept the truth of the statements as written, or go forth with alternate explanations based on nothing but our pique.
Whether Fuji is “committed to film” is an entirely different, if related, discussion, but if, in fact, they truly cannot produce 400H reasonably, for the reason they have given, then there is no contradiction between their being committed to film and discontinuing 400H. Who knows? I have no idea if they are committed to film or not, not even sure what the phrase might mean in real terms, but I can understand the feeling of betrayal if they discontinue a film stock. At least I could if I believed that Fuji owed me something. Which I don’t.

Just because I don’t believe something, doesn’t mean that the other party is lying. It just means I don’t believe it.
So, no, I “can’t see the hypocritical lie and the insult that is.” Perhaps my feelers have been dulled by drink, and my sharp edges rounded over by time, but it’s been a very long time since I have felt insulted by a conglomerate. If ever.
400H had become the only C41 film I’d use, so I’ll miss it.
 
Trust me, Fuji will be out of analog photography within the next 5-10 years.
It is their long-running goal, but they are not up-front about this.

Just about every film they ever discontinued, was either "too difficult to produce" or "did not sell well", both of which are lies, actually.

Well, partially anyway.

Fuji's factories are built for world-dominance in the field of analog photography, and when the great shift happened, they were not able to scale down. In that respect they are not lying when they say something doesn't sell well enough, but it is only partially true, due to their unwillingness to scale down, like Kodak was eventually forced to to and then transition.

The last straw for me, and my last Fuji-film purchase, was when they announced they would cancel Acros.
After that, I have been supporting companies that actually give 2 cents about their customers. (Foma, Adox, Rollei, Ilford and some Kodak).
 
znapper said:
Trust me, Fuji will be out of analog photography within the next 5-10 years.
It is their long-running goal, but they are not up-front about this.
Click to expand...

You're probably right and it won't surprise me in the least if/when some of the manufacturing equipment lands in mainland China and the few remaining emulsions are sold off and produced there.
 
znapper said:
Trust me, Fuji will be out of analog photography within the next 5-10 years.
It is their long-running goal, but they are not up-front about this.

Just about every film they ever discontinued, was either "too difficult to produce" or "did not sell well", both of which are lies, actually.
Click to expand...

Do you work for Fuji?
 
znapper said:
You don't need to work for Fuji to see where they have been heading for the past decade.


But hey, swallow their dogma about them supporting film for all I care.
Click to expand...

I'm not swallowing anything. I just assume that when someone starts a claim with 'trust me' and end it by stating that Fuji's reasons for discontinuing products are 'lies, actually', they must have access to information that the rest of us don't. This isn't the case?
 
Same old song...

Same old song...

Cue the run on all remaining stocks, at exhorbitant prices no less.

If you like high speed color negative films, my advice is to use more of the lines still being produced...

Chris
 
I prefer low ISO films for the speeds I cannot get from digital Leicas.
Ektar, Ektachrome, Velvia, Acros and Adox suit me just fine. Never used 400H and guess I never will.
 
Kodak hasn't been shy in bumping up the price of Portra in recent years, I wonder what will happen now they have a monopoly in the Pro C41 market?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom