Rodinal and 120 issues

[atlcruiser]

Hi all,
Learing the trick to rodinal and 120...steep curve for me!

All of the following PICs have a distinct uneven line across them. My guess is uneven development. The first set was done along in a small tank, the 2nd set was done in a large tank with other rolls of 35 and 120 (all the others were fine...no line) and the 3rd set was done alone in a small tank.

All were 1:50 rodinal at 18'c. I slowly invert many times for the first minute then one flip every minute after that.

My guess is not enough volume inversion? i really dont know wtf happened! 🙂

At first I thought is was just a shadow but it is across msot/all of the roll.

I have other rolls from the same camera with no issues.

Time in tank was 22 min for set 1 and 2 and 30 min for set 3

all of the sets on my new mamiya 7.....

thanks
david

 

[atlcruiser]

Set I:

 

[atlcruiser]

Set 2:

 

[atlcruiser]

set 3:

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear David,

I'd certainly back your diagnosis of insufficient agitation. Try AT LEAST 2 inversions per minute, and preferably AT LEAST 1 inversion per 30 sec or 3-5 per minute.

Incidentally, "Do not force it. Get a bigger hammer."

Amendment, in the light of Leigh's and others' comments: yes, and of course, make sure the film is covered FULLY. Re-examining the pics, the error was so gross I didn't really understand it first time 'round. I genuinely thought it was shadows, and that the streaks were one of those problems one has to strain to see.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

I'd suspect that using only one inversion each minute has allowed a 'tideline' of uneven development to show up, but there could be a number of other variables too. It is a curiously even pattern you've shown. I presume the liquid level in the tank was sufficient to fully immerse the film at all times?
I use four inversions within the first ten seconds of every minute after using constant agitation for the first minute.

 

[Brian Legge]

Only things that come to mind:

- A shutter issue resulting in uneven exposure (I haven't used a mamiya but it doesn't travel that way, right?)
- Not enough developer/stop to cover the film. It looks about mid way which would be consistent with enough chemistry for a 35mm roll.
-Developer not evenly mixed/diluted(?)

I've had uneven dev with rodinal but nothing like that. My issues were only with stand development or times when the developer wasn't moving enough when agitating.

 

[atlcruiser]

This is an easy one to diagnose. You need to fill the tank with developer! It looks like you didn't have enough developer in the tank to cover the film.

i think so as well....

BUT.....shouldnt the inversions allow for that?

 

[MartinP]

Was the odd roll the top (or only, of course, for sets 1 &3) roll in the big tank ? I'd go for the 'not enough developer to submerge the reel' option. Oops. I've never seen this effect when I've done too little agitation (thin, or patchy from one side of the tank to the other, yes) but have from one time when I had a brain-fart and filled the tank for 1x120 instead of the required 2x135 . . .

 

[atlcruiser]

the even tideline make sense as well. The lage tank holds 1200 ML +/- and i was using 1000ml. I have always done that and never had any issue with any films.

the small tank holds 485ml and I fill it to about 500 so not enough chemical does not apply there

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi David,

Developer must be enough to cover film completely, and a bit more than that: agitation is not enough for even development if developer level isn't covering the whole film when tank is still... The agitation I use is: a few inversions during the first minute, and then three (total and gentle) inversions every start of a minute... Maybe you poured less amount of developer than you thought you did...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Leigh Youdale]

i think so as well....

BUT.....shouldnt the inversions allow for that?

Well, no - because the developer drains away from the top (uncovered) part of the reel as soon as the inversion is completed and with no fresh solution coming in contact with the film until a minute later, but the bottom part stays fully immersed in developer all the time. So the effect is reduced development action on that part of the film for the time that it is not fully immersed.
I had exactly the same result a few years ago when I failed to push the reel completely down the central pillar of my Paterson tank. The bottom half of the film was immersed and fully developed - the top half was badly underdeveloped, even though I had the correct amount of developer solution in the tank.

 

[atlcruiser]

With the big tank i am 100% sure i did not have enough chemical so that explains the issue there

That would be set 2

set 1 + 3 were done in small 1510 tanks with 500ml of checmical. I just dbl checked my mark on the container i use to mix the rodinal and water then I filled the 1510 tank with 500ml then watched the level with the top off; it was dead on..that was with 2 35mm holders. Removed those and inserted 1 120 holder and it was plenty deep in chemical.

Also, I have been doing a bunch of e6 120 using 500ml of chemical with no issue but the inversions are much more rapid...every 30 seconds one flip