topaz
Established
At the risk of sounding ignorant, I seek some advice on a Rollei problem. 3.5e erratic shutter speeds. Two speeds only. I found someone locally who for a fee, cla'd the shutter, with new mainspring. I am told. After a week exact problem again. Sent it back to San Francisco, Mailed back a week later, worked for two, no 1.5 days. Same issue. It just clicks, no timing gears action. So I post a picture here. I have removed the cocking ring which turns the mainspring gear. The mainspring gear, turns freely and has no spring pressure whatsoever. Stays where you put it. I can actuate the timing gears with a tool, and they spin merrily. Any ideas on what may be the issue? I ordered a synchro compur manual, and am ready to go with a full disassembly, or send it out. Any ideas appreciated. Maybe I am wrong, but I would have thought there should be some spring pressure when cocking that gear with a tool.
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topaz
Established
You will have to take the gear pinion out for a better look. It just slides straight out of its shaft. It sounds like the main spring is either broken, not installed correctly, or missing!
Dan Daniel
Well-known
That gear? Lift it up. Now rotate 20-30 degrees clockwise. There is a tab sticking dow off of the edge, and that tab needs to be on the other side of the tab, the right side of the tab, coming up from the metal plate.
While you have the gear out, make certain that there is actually the main spring installed under the gear.
When the cocking arm is installed and is sitting in the most rleaxed position, the last gear teeth on the arm and the last gear teeth on the gear should be aligned...
Well, this is what I guess looking at photos that, to be honest, aren't the clearest. Wild shot in the dark. I'm assuming that there IS a main spring in there properly installed.
San Francisco, huh? Now I'm nervous. This wasn't me, was it? Care to name names? Synchro-compurs are pretty standard shutters, and to miss twice is a surprise. We all can make mistakes, but usually not the same one twice in a row.
It's hard to verbalize the position of the gears, the spring, etc. Search and download the Compur repair manual. You are looking for a #00 1100-xxx as I remember. Your shutter doesn't have the self-timer mechanism inside, so don't be fooled by that.
The lower arrow points to the leg of the spring sticking down and going into a hole in the gray metal part. The upper arrow points to a leg of the spring going sideways and sitting in a small slot in that part which is obvious I hope because I don't know how to describe it.
Be gentle if you need to reinstall the spring. Put the bottom leg in place. Now rotate the upper leg clockwise and slip it into the slot. I've broken that metal part once by aplying too much side force when trying to get the spring to sit.
What the heck- here's the cocking arm and that gear in proper position. See how the gear tab nests to the right side of the gray metal part's tab. Well, maybe your photo is just from it rotating the other way, as it can do easily. The gear is not directly under spring pressure; it pushes the gray metal piece whch is under pressure.
While you have the gear out, make certain that there is actually the main spring installed under the gear.
When the cocking arm is installed and is sitting in the most rleaxed position, the last gear teeth on the arm and the last gear teeth on the gear should be aligned...
Well, this is what I guess looking at photos that, to be honest, aren't the clearest. Wild shot in the dark. I'm assuming that there IS a main spring in there properly installed.
San Francisco, huh? Now I'm nervous. This wasn't me, was it? Care to name names? Synchro-compurs are pretty standard shutters, and to miss twice is a surprise. We all can make mistakes, but usually not the same one twice in a row.
It's hard to verbalize the position of the gears, the spring, etc. Search and download the Compur repair manual. You are looking for a #00 1100-xxx as I remember. Your shutter doesn't have the self-timer mechanism inside, so don't be fooled by that.
The lower arrow points to the leg of the spring sticking down and going into a hole in the gray metal part. The upper arrow points to a leg of the spring going sideways and sitting in a small slot in that part which is obvious I hope because I don't know how to describe it.
Be gentle if you need to reinstall the spring. Put the bottom leg in place. Now rotate the upper leg clockwise and slip it into the slot. I've broken that metal part once by aplying too much side force when trying to get the spring to sit.
What the heck- here's the cocking arm and that gear in proper position. See how the gear tab nests to the right side of the gray metal part's tab. Well, maybe your photo is just from it rotating the other way, as it can do easily. The gear is not directly under spring pressure; it pushes the gray metal piece whch is under pressure.
topaz
Established
I thank you both for your replies. Sorry about the quality of the images. I had Yakov on 15th Ave do the repair. Both times. He is such a nice person, I hope it was not a Rosonol fix. I have re assembled all now. But I like to again carefully take it apart, as I get better each time, and go a little further in. Fascinating. Tomorrow after work, I will pull that part. I did make sure the teeth were aligned exactly.
The mainspring gear has no tension at all. I was not aware that it would pull straight up off a shaft. It stays where it is put, and so perhaps here is where my problem lies.
I will report my findings tomorrow. Cheers
The mainspring gear has no tension at all. I was not aware that it would pull straight up off a shaft. It stays where it is put, and so perhaps here is where my problem lies.
I will report my findings tomorrow. Cheers
Sorry, my fault, perhaps. I should have been clearer. The shaft is integral with the gear itself and can be removed from the shutter. Dan's helpful images show the main spring with the gear removed. Make sure the spring is present and installed per his pics and it should run when installed and timed as shown.
Cheers
Brett
topaz
Established
Dan's photos, very clear. Thanks for the advice. I checked for Rollei mainsprings available. But, of course, no. I went to ebay just now, and bought a complete working Rolleiflex shutter(I am told) for $50. Almost the same serial #. So I should have some spare parts if needed.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
To keep things clear, Rollei never made shutters. You are working on a Synchro-Compur shutter, not a Rollei shutter. The 3.5 lens camera used a shutter size referred to as #00, I think the 1100 series in the Compur coding. The 2.8 lenses used a #0 size shutter, 1200 series I think in the Compur coding.
So I assume that you pulled the gear up and found no main spring? Oops!
By the way, Compur shutters are not being made any more. It seems that Krikor Marlian of Krimar Camera installs new main springs in every camera he works on; he must have a 5 gallon bucket of the springs he's trying to get rid of! I've found that you an get pretty darn close with older springs if you clean and adjust especially the 1/500 setting. I've gotten a Synchro-Compur part from Carol at Flutot's Camera repair, and she does great work herself. Paul Ebel is another shutter expert.
So I assume that you pulled the gear up and found no main spring? Oops!
By the way, Compur shutters are not being made any more. It seems that Krikor Marlian of Krimar Camera installs new main springs in every camera he works on; he must have a 5 gallon bucket of the springs he's trying to get rid of! I've found that you an get pretty darn close with older springs if you clean and adjust especially the 1/500 setting. I've gotten a Synchro-Compur part from Carol at Flutot's Camera repair, and she does great work herself. Paul Ebel is another shutter expert.
R
rick oleson
Guest
I can't recall EVER seeing one of these with a broken main spring (actually the 1/500 second booster spring, right?)
topaz
Established
I have pulled the main spring gear and took two photos. Sorry, my digital not good for closeup. I see that the lower leg and the top spring leg are on the same side here. On Dans' photo, it seems they are on opposite sides. I am trying to see how the gear attaches to receive spring pressure. Mine just spins around.
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topaz
Established
OK. Got it. The gear leg was not in that little slot shown so clearly in Dans photo. Its' little downward tab is slightly bent and had popped out of that place which effects the spring. I will look online to find if that truly is supposed to be a 90 degree downturn, then re assemble. If I have to slightly bend it I will have to be oh so careful not to stress it. My parts shutter has not yet arrived. Will update in a bit.
topaz
Established
I will have to wait until my other shutter arrives. The gear is tensioned by the cocking ring, under spring pressure,but just spins back to within 2 teeth distance which clicks as the shutter is released. However, I did touch some thing in there which fired the shutter while I had the cocking ring off. Interesting. But without a working shutter to watch... I will wait a few days to view the action needed.
topaz
Established
OK. Sorry for all the posts. I can make it work. The spring is good. The drive gear cocks it all, but when the shutter is released, it won't fire unless I touch gear driven leg with a screwdriver. My instinct is a dab of Nyoil, but it probably needs, instead, to be disassembled and cleaned.
topaz
Established
Fixed. All speeds snappy. Your photos were key Dan. Thanks.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Rick, the spring in my photo that sits below the gear is the main spring, not the 1/500 booster. This is a Synchro-Compur with no booster. On previous Compurs and early Synchro-Compurs, the main spring was a coil spring, maybe 2-3mm in diameter and 10mm?? long.
It's standard recommendation by many shutter makers to 'replace main spring' if speeds are slow. This is Krikor Marilan's standard, it seems. And Harry Fleenor said my shutter could use it but he wasn't too worried. Then again, I've had slow Synchro-Compurs that needed a good cleaning and adjustment and came back up to speed. I don't know enough to say if the springs really do lose force, or if this is one of those 'do something impressive-sounding to make the customer feel like they got something for their money' moves.
Glad the photos were of use, topaz. I've saved my own bacon enough times by obsessively photogaphing every step of disassembly from multiple angles on something new to me!