Rumour: M8 Falls Short

Where there's smoke, there's fire. I fully expect the M8 to be subpar in the image quality category... It'll be the build and brand heritage that win most buyers.

I just don't expect a weak company like Leica to all of the sudden realistically challenge the big dogs in the digi cam world when it comes to improvements in image quality. In the digi world, Leica is a follower not a trend setter.
 
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That's the great thing about rumors: we can believe the ones that say what we want to hear, and dismiss the ones that don't.

Leica-idolators have been happily recycling every snippet implying that the M8 will provide extraordinary image quality, or incorporate amazing technological breakthroughs, or grant the user unlimited power over time, space and dimension, or whatever -- invariably claiming these factoids originate from unimpeachably authoritative sources.

Now the Leica-bashers (and digital-haters) have their own rumor to cherish. Yes, the whole thing is silly, but at least we now have equal-opportunity silliness.

PS -- Am I missing something, or are the Magnum photos linked above pretty much utter kack? Sometimes it seems that if you shoot in black & white and avoid holding the camera level, you can persuade some people you've got a unique vision...
 
>>These agencies have turned their noses up to the M8.<<

The rumor seems improbable.

For one, mainstream photojournalism abandoned the Leica M in the 1960s and 1970s ... making it digital doesn't solve the advantages of SLR to daily PJ work.

A second point to consider: If Leica Ms were really given to press photographers for field testing, we'd be seeing them; people would be using them at public events, and the trade journalists would be writing about them. People in the news business are all about openness and public disclosure.
 
VinceC said:
>>These agencies have turned their noses up to the M8.<<

The rumor seems improbable.

For one, mainstream photojournalism abandoned the Leica M in the 1960s and 1970s ... making it digital doesn't solve the advantages of SLR to daily PJ work.

A second point to consider: If Leica Ms were really given to press photographers for field testing, we'd be seeing them; people would be using them at public events, and the trade journalists would be writing about them. People in the news business are all about openness and public disclosure.
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Yay! Somebody said it.

I also heard from a reliable source (my imagination is very reliable) that Jimmy Hoffa is taking some shots of Elvis with the M8 as we speak.
 
telenous said:
I wouldn't be surprised if most PJ's had a rangefinder soul - be it Leica, Nikon, Canon, Contax, Voigtlander or ZI. I would be even less suprised if some of them forked some of their own cash to own one of the M8s, especially if the big photoagencies do not buy the camera for them.

If we, as a bunch, are enthusiastic for the M8, they must be rapturous.
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All the PJs I know personaly have never used a Leica RF, one had a R6.2 and three lenses.

Hm, at the last count Hermi and Markus (Citybeat) with Nikon D1, Matze and Michael with D2x (Bremer Magazin and Prinz), another Michael with Canon 1D MkII (Freelancer, rally and racing with a monthly column in two national magazins), Marcus with "c" (Bild Zeitung) with Canon 20d, Roland (Bremer Tageszeitungs AG) with Canon 20d and Canon D2000 (still in use).

Those are the PJs I call my friends :), there are a couple more who's names I can't remember now who use anything from Canon 20d to Nikon D2x.
The last pro photographer I met with a Leica M, or better two, was shooting celebs at the local bicycle race in january 2003 for a glossy magazine, haven't met him since.

I met one guy with a black Leica M with M3 style rewind and a CV15 shooting the town hall. He is a retired teacher :)
 
Magnum does not employ the average Photojournalist .... it's a corporate image thing for Leica to have a couple of Magnum photographers adopting an M8 .. just as they shot the m6.. m7 ........ never exclusively .. and often just for their personal work and not for all general work.
It has the same impact as showing Michael Jordan wearing Nike shoes.
Nothing more .. nothing less.
I also expect Eggleston & Ralph Gibson to adopt the m8, i think they have already tested one :)
 
Mark Norton said:
Lots of negativity here, thank goodness Leica have had the vision to invest in this product.
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Agree .. everybody is trying to find arguments for himself not to buy .,... the usual forum talk with any new product..... look at it from the sunny side .. there will be no waiting lists if everybody hesitates :)
 
photogdave said:
I was at a Ralph Gibson presentation last year. He didn't sound very keen on digital.
He's a jerk anyway...
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Well that probably does not mean he will not show off with one if Leica pays him .. those guys are sponsored ..... big time!
I am interested in the jerk in him .... ?
 
Full of himself
Seems unwilling to discuss his own work in any detail
Won't speak to you unless you're a young lady with a large chest...
I could be wrong. He may be a great guy if you do a workshop with him...
 
Mark Norton said:
not a single picture of the M8 has leaked out....
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Not true. I could photograph a prototype with a spy camera when I creeped in the Leica factory one night recently:

digitalM.jpg


;-Didier
 
I've met quite a few PJs & news photographers in DC & NYC who use, or used to use Leica M's, although if they still use them, it's for mostly personal work, long-term essays, etc. where film is still acceptable. These aren't friends or anything, just guys who've struck up conversations w/me after spotting 1 of my Leicas or other RFs.

Socke said:
All the PJs I know personaly have never used a Leica RF, one had a R6.2 and three lenses.

Hm, at the last count Hermi and Markus (Citybeat) with Nikon D1, Matze and Michael with D2x (Bremer Magazin and Prinz), another Michael with Canon 1D MkII (Freelancer, rally and racing with a monthly column in two national magazins), Marcus with "c" (Bild Zeitung) with Canon 20d, Roland (Bremer Tageszeitungs AG) with Canon 20d and Canon D2000 (still in use).

Those are the PJs I call my friends :), there are a couple more who's names I can't remember now who use anything from Canon 20d to Nikon D2x.
The last pro photographer I met with a Leica M, or better two, was shooting celebs at the local bicycle race in january 2003 for a glossy magazine, haven't met him since.

I met one guy with a black Leica M with M3 style rewind and a CV15 shooting the town hall. He is a retired teacher :)
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I agree w/your main points. However, I don't think *only* Leica enthusiasts & dliettantes use Leicas or other RFs now, but RFs are definitely a niche tool for most photojournalists if only because they don't take really long lenses & few PJs nowadays have the kind of access where you can routinely get away w/using anything shorter than 200mm.

John Camp said:
Photojournalists, aside from a few Leica enthusiasts who will use it part time, and a few dilettantes, will not use rangefinders. If they were going to use rangefinders, why didn't they use M7s instead of film F5s and Canons? The answer is that SLRs are far more flexible; try to put a 200-500 zoom on your rangefinder; or shoot 1-to-1 macros, for that matter. Try to find dedicated lighting systems for a Leica.

Leicas are specialty cameras; modern photojournalists would no more adapt Leicas and they'd adapt 4x5s or microscopes.

The other aspect is cost. When F5s were big, a lot of my friends carried F5s as frontline cameras, and N90s when they wanted something lighter and handier for routine shots. Same lenses, mostly the same features, and cheap enough that you could break two or three of them for the cost of one F5. Same is becoming true of digital. You could have a $4,000 D2x and back it up quite well with a $1,000 D80; same lenses, files good enough for any photojournalist application.

Leicas are not photojournalism cameras anymore. They once were, they aren't now. The replacement of film with a sensor makes no difference.

JC
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Didier said:
Not true. I could photograph a prototype with a spy camera when I creeped in the Leica factory one night recently:

digitalM.jpg


;-Didier
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Gosh, isn't she gorgeous? Like a cross between a beached whale and the Star Ship Enterprise. A real scoop...
 
on a second though, the PJs I call my friends are probably too young, between 25 and 35. They all started with SLRs and stick to those.

When we visit the Photokina I'm the lonely one at the Zeiss and Leica booth and they play with the long Canon lenses :)

Marcus with "c" does a lot of paparazzi work and he is only 5'12", he can hide behind the 1200/5.6 Canon lens looks too funny when he is the first where the realy long lenses are displayed. His most valued possession is a 400/2.8 with 1.4x and 2x TC.
 
Mark Norton said:
Gosh, isn't she gorgeous? Like a cross between a beached whale and the Star Ship Enterprise. A real scoop...
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More like a Klingon Bird of Prey, the Enterprise is probably made by Canon, judging from the color that is.
 
Oh no! The ever-reliable unreliable "reliable source."

Anyone remember the guy on pnet constantly quoting an "industry source" that said the Zeiss Ikon was delayed indefinitely and continued to trumpet this as "fact" even after people had bought the camera?

I place no faith in an anonymous reliable source. It might be true. It might not be true.
 
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