Rumour: M8 Falls Short

[ywenz]

and this.

Ywenz: I suspect if the M8's image quality is spectacular you won't agree.

You are incorrect sir.

 

[John Camp]

I have an M7 and an RD-1 (and an M8 on order), so I have no problem with Leicas and think rangefinders are great cameras for specific uses. I have a good photojournalist friend who would love to have a Leica for her personal work. My point about Leicas is not that they're not capable, but that a real PJ, as opposed to a stringer or a part-timer, never knows what he/she is going to have to shoot next, and there are things that you just can't do well with a rangefinder. Some folks who haven't been employed fulltime as a PJ seem to think that the job is one great assignment after another; but it's not that way. You shoot a political picnic and then a portrait, and then you're sent out to do a piece on fingernail art or a skydiving show. If you show up with a Leica for the last two, you're in tough shape.

But I think that a serious artist with a particular vision could do very well with a Leica. Or even better: serious artists already have done well with Leicas, and will continue to do so.

JC

 

[Bob Ross]

Where there's smoke, there's fire. I fully expect the M8 to be subpar in the image quality category... It'll be the build and brand heritage that win most buyers.

I just don't expect a weak company like Leica to all of the sudden realistically challenge the big dogs in the digi cam world when it comes to improvements in image quality. In the digi world, Leica is a follower not a trend setter.

That is an interesting point of view. Image quality doesn't seem to a problem with the DMR and the M8 will no doubt be built on what Leica learned in accomplishing that. You need to frame what you mean by Leica being a weak company. They could be called that if compared to the digital comodity operations and that was the case over the decades, including the film era. You can't call Leica weak in term of creating a fine quality product a notch above the average commodity. Leica doesn't run with the big dogs, they are a mink. You are right that in the digital world, they are not the trend setter, they have instead waited until the technology matured to a point that they could risk their M-class form to the new media. I doubt subpar image quality, but there may be the quandry over the rangefinder form as a useful tool. The DSLR is a more universal, do everything, tool that can be used adequately by even the untrained, if necessary. Photo mills aren't going to invest in specialty tools that need to be learned. The rangefinder, like the view camera is "old generation" for individuals who think it makes a difference.
Bob

 

[chrisweeks]

no one at the ap or reuters has been presented with it.

interesting to see which "major services" actually received one.

 

[VinceC]

>>and then you're sent out to do a piece on fingernail art <<

Close-ups were the hardest part when, in a mood of nostalgia, I started doing most of my PJ assignments with (Nikon) rangefinders around 1990. You learned to love the 135mm lens, because it could fill a frame with a sheet of writing paper and, if you cropped down to half the negative, could pass for a 200 or 300mm lens in a pinch. All the same, I was on salary for a newspaper staff, doing feature and newsfeature work that focused on writing accompanied by a few well-matched photos, so I wasn't doing straight PJ work. And I wasn't competing for cover photos. The few times I found myself in a mob of PJs trying to compete for a winning news shot, I usually didn't do very well, even with SLRs ... it's tough work, and I had too contemplative a personality to excel at it.

 

[NIKON KIU]

I have heard from reliable sources that pre=production samples of the M8 have been presented to the most major and well know photojournalism agencies. These agencies have turned their noses up to the M8.
I can only presume this is because the cameras fall short technologically in some ways as these agencies normally recieve the cameras for free or at a heavily discounted price. Leica want to be associated with their brand and have their photographers use their kit so if its true, its a blow to their marketing.
Well, its just a rumour going around, we will soon find out....

C'mon people,
The man admits he is spreading rumors! If we can't spread rumors on the internet, on a discusion forum, what are we suppose to do??
You Leica guys take this too personal! bad mouth my Nikons all you want, I am not gonna take it personally....I SHALL defend.
Kiu

 

[IGMeanwell]

If Leica is smart they will try to get this camera endoresed by the a few professionals (it doesn't have to be many)

Nikon's major ad campaign is the inserts they put into photomags that show usually three professionals (the normals are Mike Colon, Vincent Versace) and they talk about what lenses they prefer and bodies... it shows their work and then talks of upcoming Nikon photo trips and classes. .

Canon's most lucrative ad is just one picture of all these photographers at a Track event... showing aaaaallllll the white lenses (with one Nikon mixed in there) and it simply says its obvious to see Canon is number one with sports photographers.


I think if Leica could get some endorsements they would boost the excitment over the camera. Obviously I am speaking towards non-leica owners... not the people on the wait list.

 

[John Camp]

I'll endorse it, if they'll give me a free camera; or even a free hat. 😀

 

[anselwannab]

Leica, I think, could do well by emulating Mercedes a few years back with their nostalgia and heritige ads. A chevy and a Mercedes will both get you there, but what you use depends on style.

 

[ywenz]

Leica, I think, could do well by emulating Mercedes a few years back with their nostalgia and heritige ads. A chevy and a Mercedes will both get you there, but what you use depends on style.

This is very good idea. The brand heritage of Leica is more marketable than any bullet points of advantages of RF cameras that Leica can scrunch together...

 

[jlw]

Leica, I think, could do well by emulating Mercedes a few years back with their nostalgia and heritige ads. A chevy and a Mercedes will both get you there, but what you use depends on style.

Yeah, but you'll notice that Mercedes has now dumped that theme. Its current ads position it very aggressively as a contemporary, technologically advanced, performance-oriented company whose products appeal to young, hip people.

I think Leica's situation might be similar. After all, many of the people who most appreciate Leica nostalgia and heritage are people who detest all things digital and feel betrayed that Leica would even introduce a digital RF camera. (Just read some of the posts on RFF to see what I mean!)

To get a return on its investment, Leica is going to have to go after NEW buyers with this camera. And while many of those buyers might appreciate "heritage" in the sense of "we've been doing this for so long that we've gotten really good at it," they're only going to respond if the product itself is seen as modern, significant, and responsive.

 

[back alley]

even dylan went electric...

 

[furcafe]

Exactly. As Flyfisher Tom, Ben Z, & you have already pointed out, any lack of enthusiasm for the M8 among PJs almost certainly has more to do w/the fact that it's an RF, & not an SLR, than any of the M8's shortcomings as a digital device. It's been @ least 40 years since the heyday of RFs (& even then, plenty of PJs used TLRs, Speed Graphic's, etc. as their main cameras).

I have an M7 and an RD-1 (and an M8 on order), so I have no problem with Leicas and think rangefinders are great cameras for specific uses. I have a good photojournalist friend who would love to have a Leica for her personal work. My point about Leicas is not that they're not capable, but that a real PJ, as opposed to a stringer or a part-timer, never knows what he/she is going to have to shoot next, and there are things that you just can't do well with a rangefinder. Some folks who haven't been employed fulltime as a PJ seem to think that the job is one great assignment after another; but it's not that way. You shoot a political picnic and then a portrait, and then you're sent out to do a piece on fingernail art or a skydiving show. If you show up with a Leica for the last two, you're in tough shape.

But I think that a serious artist with a particular vision could do very well with a Leica. Or even better: serious artists already have done well with Leicas, and will continue to do so.

JC

 

[J. Borger]

even dylan went electric...

This says it all ...... the best analogy i read in a while 🙂

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

even dylan went electric...

And the Beatles went Baroque, and Nixon went to China --which is very off the point.

The point is: believe! Take that leap of faith. Try new things. Ah buleev! Ah see d' lite! Ah buleeev!

 

[DaveKennedy]

Well I have to say I'm disappointed at the low opinion of working news photographers here. I've had a Leica nearly my entire career and haven't been able to use it because of the total switch to digital. Most of the working pro news photos I know have Leica's but THEY CAN'T USE THEM because no one uses film anymore in the news business.

You think I like using a "soul-less" Canon MkII? Nope.... I'd much prefer a small quiet camera that I can make photos with. Rather than the 20 pounds or so of great I have to carry around every day.

I'd gladly put down the $$$ if I knew that image quality was there. I don't need a zoom on every body but I do need a fast, sharp, wide lens and I'd love it to be on a Leica Digi-M.

DaveK

 

[rvaubel]

If I could have only one camera, it would have to be a DSLR because of its flexibility. There is really no other choice, especially for a professional.

If I could add a second camera, it would be a digital rangefinder which I would use 80% of the time. Hardly bigger than a pointn'shoot, it would serve as the regular. day to day camera . Its more limited capacities rarely come up for normal stuff. And the DSLR is ready for the soccer games, etc.

No pro is going to give up his DSLR for an M8. But a lot of them would sure like to have one.

Rex

 

[Harry Lime]

Leica is a brand that is very very little used by professionals photographers. So it would be no suprise

Says who? Obviously news photography has been mostly digital for the past 5-10 years, but there still are plenty of pros shooting with Leicas and there are many more out there clamoring for a digital M.

Recently I had a chance to talk to Gray Knight (VII Photo) and he was telling us about a recent shoot he did on poaching in a African national park. He ended up shooting it with his Leica M cameras, because his big Canon DLSR, drew too much attention and immediately identified him as a journalist.

There is a lot of pent up demand out there among pros for a high quality, compact and low key digital cameras and unless the M8 turns out to be a piece of junk it will fit the bill very nicely.

 

[Harry Lime]

No pro is going to give up his DSLR for an M8. But a lot of them would sure like to have one.

Rex

Exactly and that's how things worked for a very long time.

 

[Simon Larbalestier]

Photojournalists, aside from a few Leica enthusiasts who will use it part time, and a few dilettantes, will not use rangefinders. If they were going to use rangefinders, why didn't they use M7s instead of film F5s and Canons?

SNIP
Leicas are specialty cameras; modern photojournalists would no more adapt Leicas and they'd adapt 4x5s or microscopes.
SNIP
Leicas are not photojournalism cameras anymore. They once were, they aren't now. The replacement of film with a sensor makes no difference.

JC

Funny to read this a few of my PJ friends were debating this the other night in Bangkok and we split 50/50 in our preferences.

For what i do the Leica is the most reliable tool for the job and the M8 will fit in nicely with the film bodies i have- allowing for the best results in both formats as it were. If i had the cash i would, like Mark Norton, order two and like him i'm very excited by its arrival ......🙂