Scanning and proofing slides--there must be a better way!

[Tom Diaz]

I have an M8 on order, which is very exciting, but there are still fine films to shoot and I still plan do do that. In particular, I would like to keep shooting E6 film till it disappears. (I am afraid that will happen sooner than I would like!)

So here is my workflow problem. I have a fine desktop film scanner, but it is way too slow (even on a low-res setting) to burn through six or seven rolls of slides in less than several days. And what I want, early in the workflow, is a set of low-res scans that I can use as proofs, in Adobe Bridge or the exciting new Adobe Lightroom software.

When I shoot C-41 film I have a great workflow: I take the Portra 160NC or whatever down the street to Walgreen's. For about five dollars, they develop the roll and give me a CD (no prints needed) with 1000dpi scans; I can get it back in as little as one hour. I pop the CD in, look at things in Lightroom, and when I pick a good one I can use the desktop scanner for a serious scan. This workflow is so fast that, considering how much I like Portra, it compares favorably with digital.

I have not figured out what magic words to say that will get me this kind of turnaround and price with E6 film. What is technically possible? I would bet some money that those drugstore machines will actually do transparencies as well as negatives. What do I need to say to get what I want? I am looking for an incantation, because, for instance, one out of three drugstore photo people will look at the roll of Portra or Ilford XP2 or and tell me they can't process it; I have to show them the little C-41 legend to get them going.

If I fall into the hands of the more serious local labs (which do not always have the one-hour photo machines), they want absurd prices, like $1.25 per slide, to do a scan. Yes, this is absurd, but of course if they do not have the one-hour machines, they would end up doing a labor intensive job and/or tying up an expensive drum scanner for a lot of time.

So isn't there something you can tell a drugstore person like, "just feed it into the yadda-yadda slot and set the machine on Color Positive and make me a CD--trust me, I'll like it?" I would be interested in knowing about web-based or other remote services, if you know any, but that really would not be as desirable--I want same-day turnaround like I get with C-41.

Thanks in advance, buds. I had plenty of time to write this, because I am listening to my desktop scanner paw through roll six of eight rolls of Velvia, a project I started a couple of days ago, and I spend a lot of time in front of this computer. A more normal person just would not be able to justify the time I am putting in, at all!

 

[Toby]

I've got an epson 4990 flat bed. It comes with film holder that scans 24 35mm in one go. Lo res takes 20-30 mins, it's excellent for replacing contact sheets

 

[rxmd]

Hi Tom,

over here, with digital minilabs and large labs that do the processing for drugstores, it doesn't make a difference anymore if you give them C-41 or E-6 if all you want is to have it developed and get a low-resolution CD. In some places even prints cost the same, since both are digitally printed anyway. So basically what you ask for is already there.

So I suggest you go to Walgreens or whatever big chain of your choice that does bulk photographic work and ask if they will do the same from slide film. I guess even if, maybe, Walgreens themselves won't do it, you can find someone who does.

Alternatively, get yourself a second scanner, an old one that does only 2000 or 2500 dpi but that scans whole rolls. One option would be the old Sony UY-S77, it scans a roll of 36 frames automatically in something like six minutes. That's ten seconds per frame for a sub-$150 device.

Philipp

 

[Nachkebia]

You can also use this http://www.adorama.com/INKSA30.html with coolscan and not cut slides!

 

[specular]

The drugstores do not do E6 here in Boston. Anywhere? Then there's the $4.49 Fuji E6 mailer for mounted slides (two weeks turnaround though)

Get an Epson V700 which lets you scan 12 slides at once and scan them low-rez with no ICE. I have a V750 and the scans are pretty fast. I've seen the V700 going for less than $500.

You may need low-rez digital proofs for the work you do. But if you do not, what's wrong with the old fashion slide projector or a good loupe/light box to sort through them?

 

[Tom Diaz]

Hi Tom,

over here, with digital minilabs and large labs that do the processing for drugstores, it doesn't make a difference anymore if you give them C-41 or E-6 if all you want is to have it developed and get a low-resolution CD. In some places even prints cost the same, since both are digitally printed anyway. So basically what you ask for is already there.

So I suggest you go to Walgreens or whatever big chain of your choice that does bulk photographic work and ask if they will do the same from slide film. I guess even if, maybe, Walgreens themselves won't do it, you can find someone who does.

Alternatively, get yourself a second scanner, an old one that does only 2000 or 2500 dpi but that scans whole rolls. One option would be the old Sony UY-S77, it scans a roll of 36 frames automatically in something like six minutes. That's ten seconds per frame for a sub-$150 device.

Philipp

I was sure such machines and flexibility existed, because I was able to get the kind of E6 turnaround I wanted while traveling in South Africa. Surely the American machines are not so different! (I was in South Africa with about 25 rolls of exposed film when the big terrorist threat happened regarding Heathrow, in August; I had to get all that film developed in a hurry 'cause I could not carry it on board with me!)

Thanks for the Sony suggestion. I would try something like that if I failed in my quest. After all, I still need to get the E6 developed somewhere, and I want to drop it off there, come back an hour or so later, and pick up the slides and CD.

I have tried asking the Walgreen's operators in the stores, but I need to get to someone more technical at a bigger lab. Has anyone in the US figured this out? (I live in the Boston area, but I suspect the incantation is the same anywhere.)

 

[dmr]

So isn't there something you can tell a drugstore person like, "just feed it into the yadda-yadda slot and set the machine on Color Positive and make me a CD--trust me, I'll like it?" I would be interested in knowing about web-based or other remote services, if you know any, but that really would not be as desirable--I want same-day turnaround like I get with C-41.

I asked this to a Walgreens guy, one who actually seemed to know what he was doing, and he said (confirmed) that their machine (Fuji Frontier 350 or 550 or something, actually a very new model) is only set up to do C41 negatives.

I don't know if you can do E6 in those, but I do know that E6 uses a completely different chemistry and processing steps.

He did say that even though the machine is Fuji, they used Kodak chemistry in it. Go figure! 🙂 ???

In particular, I would like to keep shooting E6 film till it disappears. (I am afraid that will happen sooner than I would like!)

I wouldn't be so sure. 🙂 Fuji is apparently re-introducing a Velvia 50 film. 🙂

 

[Tom Diaz]

I asked this to a Walgreens guy, one who actually seemed to know what he was doing, and he said (confirmed) that their machine (Fuji Frontier 350 or 550 or something, actually a very new model) is only set up to do C41 negatives.

I don't know if you can do E6 in those, but I do know that E6 uses a completely different chemistry and processing steps.

He did say that even though the machine is Fuji, they used Kodak chemistry in it. Go figure! 🙂 ???



I wouldn't be so sure. 🙂 Fuji is apparently re-introducing a Velvia 50 film. 🙂

I would be willing to have the E6 developed at one lab and then I would carry it to the people with the machine. I realize the chemistry is different (of course). It's the scanning service that I'm looking for.

 

[mjflory]

I've run into the same problem, and it's getting worse. The drugstore developing machines can't handle slides, or if they can, I suspect they'd have to empty out the C-41 chemicals and substitute E-6 stuff. Not sure if the machines could handle the flashing anyway. (That's when the slide is exposed to light midway through the process before development is completed).
I used to take slides down to a nice little local lab, but now they send them out too and it takes a week. I asked about the handy do-it-yourself packets of E-6 chemistry Kodak used to make -- they're gone. I'm lucky, I work in a research institute with a fine photography department, and the very kind fellow who specializes in the ancient craft of developing film offered to put my E6 through his little machine with very fresh chemicals, but even then I'm at the mercy of what scores of other scientists have brought in, and of course that takes priority.

I've struggled with scanner speed as well. What scanner do you have? I looked into (and decided I didn't need) a slide feeder for my Nikon Coolscan LS-2000. Apparently they are often reliable for twenty or so of the fifty-slide capacity but can get stuck on more. I can't get my automatic strip film feeder to work. It's supposed to take in one end of a strip and position the film properly for a scan by sensing the breaks between frames, but it won't even feed the film. I borrowed another from our lab -- same problem. Neighbor has a Nikon medium-format film scanner and her feeder's not working either!
My scanning projects move at a glacial pace as a consequence of all this. But at least things are better than with some older film scanners I've tried! I managed to get an original Coolscan to work under Linux with a command-line driver, if you can imagine that! (Hamrick Software's fine VueScan works, too.) Only problem: five minutes or more per slide!
I'm afraid I've been more sympathy than help, but there we sit. Good luck!
-- Michael

 

[Tom Diaz]

The drugstores do not do E6 here in Boston. Anywhere? Then there's the $4.49 Fuji E6 mailer for mounted slides (two weeks turnaround though)

Get an Epson V700 which lets you scan 12 slides at once and scan them low-rez with no ICE. I have a V750 and the scans are pretty fast. I've seen the V700 going for less than $500.

You may need low-rez digital proofs for the work you do. But if you do not, what's wrong with the old fashion slide projector or a good loupe/light box to sort through them?

I have a small office at home. My equipment (including the very compact Minolta scanner) fits in here just fine with me, but I do not have the desk space for a light box. Plus, call me stubborn, but with C-41 I don't have to work in a darkened room, everything is fast, etc.

I already have a second (flatbed) scanner, incidentally. The thing is, you have to count the time to load up the film holder with the negs or slides, and then add to that the time taken to set up the batch scan and do the scan. After you are all set with that, it takes only a few minutes... per roll. So that really adds up to a lot of time and hassle that one should spend out shooting or else editing.

As rxmd points out, what I want exists in Germany (and elsewhere, I feel sure), so surely there is some way to get it here, even if you have to finagle.

 

[DougK]

I don't know if this will help or not, but what I have done is have the lab do "develop-only" on my slide film (particularly when I shoot half-frame). I take it home, cut it into strips myself, and use the negative carrier on my scanner. It's still not what I would call speedy, but it's a lot better than loading individual slides into the slide carrier.

 

[kaiyen]

Well...and forgive me if this isn't something you'd want to try but...what works for me is a loupe, a lightbox, and a mean editing eye. I don't see how doing that would be any less effective than when you get the scans of your C41 at Walgreens. If you "seriously" scan an average of, say, 4 frames from a roll of C41, then using a loupe with the same kind of discerning eye will yield probably about 4 per roll of e6.

allan

 

[Tom Diaz]

Well...and forgive me if this isn't something you'd want to try but...what works for me is a loupe, a lightbox, and a mean editing eye. I don't see how doing that would be any less effective than when you get the scans of your C41 at Walgreens. If you "seriously" scan an average of, say, 4 frames from a roll of C41, then using a loupe with the same kind of discerning eye will yield probably about 4 per roll of e6.

allan

Actually I think lightboxes and loupes are better than projecting, for proofing purposes, so your point does make some sense. However, I don't have the readily available desk space for the lightbox. Also, the C-41 workflow I describe gets all the images onto my computer, where I can catalog them and manage them. It is not too hard, then, to go back from that catalog to the original slides or negatives, which can just be stored in date order.

I used to proof contacts of negatives with a loupe, too, of course, and yet I would not go back to that since I have the option of doing digital proofing.

Until recently my local camera shop did this workflow for me for black and white, too. They would send the TMax or whatever I liked to the local pro lab, and the lab would send them back the uncut developed film. They would then feed the B&W negs into their one-hour photo machine and give me a CD with B&W scans. That took one day and cost $8 and (of course!) if still took only one day even if I gave them ten rolls of film. That was really sweet. They even did high-speed infrared for me that way! Took longer than a day because of the strange chemistry, but it was still no hassle for me. (The shop went out of business recently, after decades of service to my town--a victim of high retail rents and the much lower profits brought about by the digital revolution.)

So you see what I mean? Those of us who want to shoot film can get almost all the advantages of digital image processing working for us if we just finagle and push a bit.

 

[kevin m]

Nikon makes a roll-film adapter for their 4000/5000 line of scanners.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...833&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Ask your lab to develop your e-6, but don't mount it. Run the whole roll thru your scanner while you do the laundry, etc.. I don't have one (yet) but from what I've read they don't jam like the slide feeders do.

 

[aad]

I use Kaiyen's method on slides, too-but Iris Photo in Northampton, Massachusetts will do E6 in 2 to 4 hours, with CD in your choice of res, and prints. I suppose you could mail to them and request a CD.