Second gen M8 and still the banding?
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J. Borger
Well-known
No ... Leica is aware of this phenomenon and the casue ....firmware 1.10 will deal with it.
I have never seen this myself ... because it only occurs with very specific combinations of Iso speed , shuttertime and use of EV compensation during raw-conversion .....
I have never seen this myself ... because it only occurs with very specific combinations of Iso speed , shuttertime and use of EV compensation during raw-conversion .....
Toby
On the alert
I can't see how you could live with that, that looks worse than any of the original banding examples I've seen about.
Bob Parsons
Established
This is a well known problem caused by very bright light sources just outside the frame. As has been said, Leica is aware and say it's scheduled to be fixed with the next firmware release.
It's believed that reference pixels at the chip periphery which are covered by an opaque mask inadvertantly receive light when light strikes the chip surface at a certain angle.
Bob.
It's believed that reference pixels at the chip periphery which are covered by an opaque mask inadvertantly receive light when light strikes the chip surface at a certain angle.
Bob.
Ben Z
Veteran
I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of this new firmware and the all-clear from those who install it. Then I will reconsider purchasing an M8.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ben Z said:
What a little bird told me about 1.91 that might do the trick already. Except for the cyan vignetting, that will come with 1.10, hopefully around PMA time, but possibly later. Mapping all the cyan fingerprints seems to take a lot of man-hours...
Ben Z
Veteran
There's a 1.91? When will that be available, all I see on Leica's site is 1.90. I could care less about the cyan correction since several of my wide lenses are Voitlanders that won't have exact codes and I won't ever bother to code anything above 35mm, so I don't want to have to keep remembering to turn Lens Detection on and off every time I change lenses. I'll probably always use Panotools for the cyan. I just want all the lockups and this new banding to be solved, then I'm in.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Ben and similarly situated M8 would be consumers-
At this point the absence of 1.10 is the last hurdle (or should be) for anyone seriously wanting an M8 but holding out (if it's fixes don't do it for you then you'll need to wait for an M9). That it’s not here over three months late is serious cause for concern. Don’t believe for one second that it's delay has anything to do with cyan "mapping" cough, bull****, cough.
I am one of this cameras biggest supporters and I love mine but if Leica has lost it's ability to write code for the camera then this is of huge concern (as I speculated nearly four weeks ago). I'd now bet one hundred dollars even money that when the Jenoptik deal flew south so too did Leica's code writing monkeys. I need to dig up the time line I put together regarding this as it seemed to put it all into perspective.
A word of warning to anyone considering this camera- wait until 1.10 or be willing to accept hiccups in the camera in terms of freezing up (then coming back to life) issues with certain SD cards, some show banding others not (mine not), little things, some not so little but most could be remedied by 1.10 I’d imagine. For the record Leica announced 1.10 would be ready back in November around the same time the Jenoptik deal fell through- it’s now nearly March, you do the math.
At this point the absence of 1.10 is the last hurdle (or should be) for anyone seriously wanting an M8 but holding out (if it's fixes don't do it for you then you'll need to wait for an M9). That it’s not here over three months late is serious cause for concern. Don’t believe for one second that it's delay has anything to do with cyan "mapping" cough, bull****, cough.
I am one of this cameras biggest supporters and I love mine but if Leica has lost it's ability to write code for the camera then this is of huge concern (as I speculated nearly four weeks ago). I'd now bet one hundred dollars even money that when the Jenoptik deal flew south so too did Leica's code writing monkeys. I need to dig up the time line I put together regarding this as it seemed to put it all into perspective.
A word of warning to anyone considering this camera- wait until 1.10 or be willing to accept hiccups in the camera in terms of freezing up (then coming back to life) issues with certain SD cards, some show banding others not (mine not), little things, some not so little but most could be remedied by 1.10 I’d imagine. For the record Leica announced 1.10 would be ready back in November around the same time the Jenoptik deal fell through- it’s now nearly March, you do the math.
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Sailor Ted
Well-known
maio,
I'd guess that one way or another your camera is either from the first batch of production or has the critical part that caused banding from the first batch of production. I have no such issues with mine (knock on wood). Were I you I'd have a long and heated discussion with both my dealer and Leica in what ever country you live in- they can not afford this kind of publicity and should give you a replacement camera as your problem at this point is old news for most M8 users who do not share your dilemma.
I'd guess that one way or another your camera is either from the first batch of production or has the critical part that caused banding from the first batch of production. I have no such issues with mine (knock on wood). Were I you I'd have a long and heated discussion with both my dealer and Leica in what ever country you live in- they can not afford this kind of publicity and should give you a replacement camera as your problem at this point is old news for most M8 users who do not share your dilemma.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ben Z said:
You know about little birds - flighty things....😉 But the buzz sounds very good.
Ben Z
Veteran
Yeah I just flew over to the LUF birdcage and dug around...seems there are a few people trying to make out like they have the inside track on what's happening at Leica but for me, seeing is believing. One of those fellows, Guy M, is now saying Jenoptik is not the source of the M8 firmware but that flies in the face of everything that's been said so far including by Leica officials.
Anyway, I'm waiting until there's something higher than 1.09 and people with these roster of problems report that it fixes them all. That will also prove Leica still has control of the rudder so-to-speak.
Still, what happened with the DMR is alarming. No new firmware past the time of Imacon's departure from the scene, and the DMR itself discontinued without any successor (other than an adaptor for the Digilux-3...small-sensor Panasonic with a 2x lens crop factor! I think I'd rather use R lenses on a 5D if I had one).
Anyway, I'm waiting until there's something higher than 1.09 and people with these roster of problems report that it fixes them all. That will also prove Leica still has control of the rudder so-to-speak.
Still, what happened with the DMR is alarming. No new firmware past the time of Imacon's departure from the scene, and the DMR itself discontinued without any successor (other than an adaptor for the Digilux-3...small-sensor Panasonic with a 2x lens crop factor! I think I'd rather use R lenses on a 5D if I had one).
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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ben Z said:
Let's wait and see. The PMA is a deadline for many camera manufacturers.
Ben Z
Veteran
jaapv said:
Exactly what I'm doing--waiting to see. From where I sit Leica can take as long as they like. The folks who already bought them and are having problems are the ones who might reasonably be anxious.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Yes- I feel for them as well. Using a trouble-free M8 really shows what they are missing.
sirvine
Established
The original poster's shots don't look trouble free to me. I'd hate to have to recompose for fear of getting that mess.
And aren't a lot of people assuming that such a problem is actually capable of being fixed by firmware? Genuine question-- I don't know about this type of thing.
And aren't a lot of people assuming that such a problem is actually capable of being fixed by firmware? Genuine question-- I don't know about this type of thing.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
sir vine,
I do not have this issue under the same conditions with my M8 so I'd guess my original assertion to the OP is correct as is my solution- get Leica to replace the camera with a new copy.
I do not have this issue under the same conditions with my M8 so I'd guess my original assertion to the OP is correct as is my solution- get Leica to replace the camera with a new copy.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
sirvine said:
I think it might be - it would be possible to recognize this condition and correct it. But it looks like a light leak to the reference pixels or a reflection, so the elegant solution is to fix the hardware or replace the camera. My cameras certainly never have done this - and I have a habit of shooting straight into the sun.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Mario: I have nothing technical to add, but would like to be added to your guest list in the future. I like champagne. 😀
TJV
Well-known
I have been through THREE M8's now, one I couldn't test because the rear jogger wheel was stuffed. The other two did this exact type of banding at ALL ISO's under the same conditions. (I never actually go out to test, eg shoot brick walls and bright lights etc to see if I can force a problem. I only shoot real photos.) The first M8 was first batch and "fixed", the second and third were the latest batch, fresh from Europe. I for one shoot a lot of situations like the above and am not prepared to "live in fear." I don't care if it only happens at ISO 1250 and above. Having the option of changing to high sensitivity ISO's at will was a main reason for going digital. As far as I can recall, and if Sean Reid is reading maybe he can correct me, Leica only confirmed they can fix the faint vertical banding in firmware. If that is the case, my fourth M8 won't make it out the box. To be clear, I would really love my M8 to be fixed. I really do like the camera and am prepared to live with the IR issues and filters. But I'm not prepared to waste 5K on a camera I have to second guess when doing casual reportage work with strong light sources.
I also have to say that after a few early hicups, I'm very impressed with how my situation is being handled by Leica and their representitives. They've turned me from a very unhappy person into someone who will remain loyal. I will reinvest in Leica film gear if it comes to goodbyes with the M8. Digital is on it's last legs for me.
Tim
I also have to say that after a few early hicups, I'm very impressed with how my situation is being handled by Leica and their representitives. They've turned me from a very unhappy person into someone who will remain loyal. I will reinvest in Leica film gear if it comes to goodbyes with the M8. Digital is on it's last legs for me.
Tim
usm
Member
To all!
Well, Leica will send me a new M8 - let's see what going on with the next one.
I already had 4 Digilux2 and after the last one, I changed to a M8 (it was "more" than just a change).
Let's talk about SD-cards: Is it possible that a not listed SC-card can be the reason for the freezing problem?
Thanx
It is a nice forum.
Mario
Well, Leica will send me a new M8 - let's see what going on with the next one.
I already had 4 Digilux2 and after the last one, I changed to a M8 (it was "more" than just a change).
Let's talk about SD-cards: Is it possible that a not listed SC-card can be the reason for the freezing problem?
Thanx
It is a nice forum.
Mario
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