Sensor Replacement Policy 2017

[Huss]

Yes -replacement times are getting out of hand. Leica appears to be overwhelmed by the flood they created.

Exactly, this is all their own doing. This is a complete mess, they destroyed their goodwill and created this massive back log. A lose lose scenario.

 

[ptpdprinter]

Exactly, this is all their own doing. This is a complete mess, they destroyed their goodwill and created this massive back log. A lose lose scenario.

On the bright side, in eight weeks, any sensor repairs will become a source of income.

 

[raid]

... if you can repair or replace sensors.

 

[Corran]

I suppose the question is how long should one expect repairs and parts to be available for a digital camera? I am sure there are newer digital cameras than the M9 that are already no longer serviceable.

 

[raid]

Yes, this is a fact. Still, the Leica image and cult status, ot whatever you call it, makes many owners of Leica digital cameras expect a non-ending committment for (free) service.
Maybe it is reasonable to have such an expectation and maybe it is not.

 

[ptpdprinter]

Yes, this is a fact. Still, the Leica image and cult status, ot whatever you call it, makes many owners of Leica digital cameras expect a non-ending committment for (free) service.
Maybe it is reasonable to have such an expectation and maybe it is not.

Is it unreasonable to expect free repair of manufacturing and design defects?

 

[ornate_wrasse]

Ellen,
What will be final cost of the Q, and how much discount would you get when trading in your M9 for the Q? Does such a trade depend on having a damaged sensor on the M9?

Raid,

The cost to me would be $2,350, a little over half of the new cost of a Leica Q, which is $4,250.

Yes, I believe such a trade depends on having a damaged sensor on the M9.

Ellen

 

[raid]

Raid,

The cost to me would be $2,350, a little over half of the new cost of a Leica Q, which is $4,250.

Yes, I believe such a trade depends on having a damaged sensor on the M9.

Ellen

Ellen,
If you hear back from Leica Camera NJ that the sensor is damaged, will they then offer you to repair the M9 or get a Q and pay the $2350? Is this how it always works out?

 

[raid]

Is it unreasonable to expect free repair of manufacturing and design defects?

When you buy some appliance for your home, say a refrigerator, and you get a one year warranty, what do you do 5 years later if that refrigerator stops working? Would you expect a free replacement or repair? The built-in ice machine is "susceptible to fail", I have been told. It does not fail during the first year!

 

[ptpdprinter]

When you buy some appliance for your home, say a refrigerator, and you get a one year warranty, what do you do 5 years later if that refrigerator stops working? Would you expect a free replacement or repair? The built-in ice machine is "susceptible to fail", I have been told. It does not fail during the first year!

Most consumer products, like refrigerators, are relatively inexpensive and have relatively short useful lives, so after five years you pretty much expect them to break and are not surprised when they do. Given their cost, you repair or replace them, often with another brand, depending on what's on sale at the time. I once made the mistake of buying a high-end German dishwasher, and it didn't last any longer than the less expensive ones. I learned my lesson and won't make that mistake again. I routinely replace my microwave every four or five years. Even if there were free repairs, you really can't send them off and wait 24 weeks for the company to get around to fixing them anyway.

Now if you bought an expensive SubZero model that had a compressor with a known design defect that was failing left and right, you would expect SubZero to fix it, or, in the alternative, just join one of the many class action lawsuits that enterprising lawyers are always filing in such cases. I seem to remember that the threat of a class action lawsuit was what prompted Leica to adopt its free sensor repair program in the first place. Before that, Leica was charging its customers an arm and a leg to repair a design defect. Apparently, the class action threat has now dissipated, which may have been a factor in Leica deciding to reneg on its promise.

 

[ornate_wrasse]

Ellen,
If you hear back from Leica Camera NJ that the sensor is damaged, will they then offer you to repair the M9 or get a Q and pay the $2350? Is this how it always works out?

Raid,

Yes, I believe this is how it works. Of course, I will know for sure, in the case of my own M9, when I hear back from Leica if they have discovered sensor corrosion.

I learned a lot when I went to Pro Photo Supply here in Portland and spoke to the Leica rep. He had a heavy German accent so maybe he recently came over from Germany? In any event, he was most helpful and explained that the possibility of upgrading to a Leica Q from the M9 is a very recent event, Leica wasn't allowing the M9 to be upgraded to the Leica Q when they first started the program of allowing upgrades as a result of damaged sensors.

Ellen

 

[Huss]

I suppose the question is how long should one expect repairs and parts to be available for a digital camera? I am sure there are newer digital cameras than the M9 that are already no longer serviceable.

That is not the question as Leica knowingly sold defective cameras. This isn't just a march of time thing.

 

[Huss]

I learned a lot when I went to Pro Photo Supply here in Portland and spoke to the Leica rep. He had a heavy German accent so maybe he recently came over from Germany? In any event, he was most helpful and explained that the possibility of upgrading to a Leica Q from the M9 is a very recent event, Leica wasn't allowing the M9 to be upgraded to the Leica Q when they first started the program of allowing upgrades as a result of damaged sensors.

Ellen

That's because now the M10 is out, owners of the M9 series aren't so infatuated by the older M240. And sales of the Q are slowing.
So also offer the Q in the program to sweeten it for M9 owners, and at the same time move Qs as the novelty of that model has died down.

This is the reality of digital cameras, there is always something newer and better a week away.

 

[raid]

I want to be able to use many lenses on my M camera. The Q does not suit my needs.

 

[Emile de Leon]

I was seriously thinking about getting my 1st Leica M digital body soon..either the M262 bundle..or the MD..or maybe an M10..
But..me thinks...L is too problem prone..takes too long to service..
So for a hoot today..I took my old M6 out for a spin..just to see if I really wanted to go back to Leica M...but...well... its just freekin fiddley to use the rangefinder patch...
It is sort of nice to not totally see what you get in a sense..framing wise or perspective wise esp with wides..as it allows the intuition to work the experience internally..kind of a 4th dimension reality..and there is something to be said for that..
But my Sony A7 has spoiled me..there is no mystery there..what you shoot..is what you get..
And really don't think I can live w/o LV or video anymore..esp for the Leica pricing structure..of delivering less...for...more..
I may still buy and try the digital M out for a year of 2 to see if it grows on me...I used to shoot the M6 all the time..
But M9 is out...M10 has the iso dial malfunctioning..M240 has its issues..jeeze Leica..you can do better than this..

 

[ornate_wrasse]

That's because now the M10 is out, owners of the M9 series aren't so infatuated by the older M240. And sales of the Q are slowing.
So also offer the Q in the program to sweeten it for M9 owners, and at the same time move Qs as the novelty of that model has died down.

Your analysis seems spot on. The Leica rep I spoke to stated that the upgrade offer was NOT available for the M10.

 

[Corran]

That is not the question as Leica knowingly sold defective cameras. This isn't just a march of time thing.

Well I haven't delved real deep into the background of the corrosion issue, but "knowingly sold defective cameras" sounds like quite a claim. Testing long-term environmental effects on a relatively new technology (large-sensor digital cameras) I am sure is quite difficult, and we are approaching 8 years since the release of the M9. Also Leica didn't manufacture the sensor. I guess the point is that it's a multi-faceted problem.

Either way, I also pose the question in a more general sense. If I drop my M9 on the ground and the sensor cracks sometime in the next decade, it's probably destroyed for good. Comparatively, many of us are routinely using and servicing cameras that are decades old, if not over a century. They are much simpler machines of course, but if one considers buying a "Leica" as a one-time, lifetime purchase, like in the old days, a digital camera of any stripe is a dubious purchase.

 

[Huss]

Well I haven't delved real deep into the background of the corrosion issue, but "knowingly sold defective cameras" sounds like quite a claim.

Leica was aware of the sensor issue, but continued to sell the cameras - eventually as the M-E. Which is what I bought. It's not a claim, it is a fact.
It doesn't matter that Leica does not/did not make the sensors. They were using them in the cameras we were buying from them.

 

[Huss]

But M9 is out...M10 has the iso dial malfunctioning..M240 has its issues..jeeze Leica..you can do better than this..

What are the issues with the M240 or M10? I've never had an issue w my M240. It's been rock solid. Genuinely curious.

 

[Corran]

Leica was aware of the sensor issue, but continued to sell the cameras - eventually as the M-E. Which is what I bought. So it's not a claim, it is a fact.
It doesn't matter that Leica does not/did not make the sensors. They were using them in the cameras we were buying from them.

Fair enough, I did not think about the M-E.