Tom R
Established
Or, for those who don't need a digital workflow, older M bodies that work just fine with Leica lenses!
T
Huss
Veteran
Waiting on the Konost...
oldwino
Well-known
Yup, my film Leicas just keep on working.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I am 99% film shooter but really like the MM because digital allows me to keep shooting for hours after the light becomes too challenging for Tri-X and I don't like the look of pushed film. I don't use the MM enough to risk sensor corrosion I guess. Despite my disappointment with the whole thing I would buy another MM and use it full time once my stash of 135 film is used up. I'll just shoot film for larger formats.
rscheffler
Well-known
This is the one thing that truly disappoints me about Leica - their sluggish service turnaround. 12 weeks is, in the context of high end cameras, ridiculous. Canon CPS will turnaround in under a week... and provide loaners. It means you can keep working.
You ended up buying an SL to hold you over during the sensor replacement... This appears to be Leica's solution to their service turnarounds - 'encourage' users to buy more equipment to ensure they can continue to shoot when something is in the shop.
That's pretty amazing, for Leica. Someone in service actually answered the phone?
Anyway, my M9 definitely has the sensor corrosion problem. I hardly use it, preferring the M240 instead. Glad now I didn't send it in earlier before they found the 'permanent' fix to the problem. I bought it used in 2010 and this update has spurred me to send it in today and get the slow ball rolling. At least it will be usable again, even if I continue to hardly use it. Will be interesting to learn what the M240 trade offer is. I'd prefer to get an M-P 240. But what I really probably want is an M10.
mlu19
Established
I just read the free sensor replacement offer is ending in August 2017. Would Leica take a look at my M9P even if I don't see a sensor problem with it?
DwF
Well-known
Corrosion here....
Corrosion here....
On Monday, a friend who'd just seen the notice from Leica, forwarded it to me while I was at work. That evening I did a check of a recent image with lots of sky to see whether my sensor was clean. It looked just fine, but then I decided to check carefully and, making an exposure of our overcast sky yesterday morning I found spots w haloing at the lower part of the sensor. I wrote to Leica with pics attached and was told they will do a replacement at no charge. I will be sending my camera in today or tomorrow.
David
Corrosion here....
On Monday, a friend who'd just seen the notice from Leica, forwarded it to me while I was at work. That evening I did a check of a recent image with lots of sky to see whether my sensor was clean. It looked just fine, but then I decided to check carefully and, making an exposure of our overcast sky yesterday morning I found spots w haloing at the lower part of the sensor. I wrote to Leica with pics attached and was told they will do a replacement at no charge. I will be sending my camera in today or tomorrow.
David
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Yes they will, just send it in for a sensor clean and check.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Remember that the 'free' service is not being cancelled for cameras bought new up to five years before August. September 2017 marks the fifth year since the M typ 240 replaced the M9/M9-P; the MM stayed in production until 2013 and the M-E until 2015, so there's plenty of time for those who own those cameras but have not yet seen the issue surface.
Moving to a paid service for cameras older than that after August makes sense as it provides full refurbishment support services (with factory warranty!) for obsoleted, aging cameras that, from any other manufacturer, would be retired or replaced if they malfunctioned.
No other manufacturer has offered such extensive warranty and paid remedial services for older cameras that I know of.
G
Moving to a paid service for cameras older than that after August makes sense as it provides full refurbishment support services (with factory warranty!) for obsoleted, aging cameras that, from any other manufacturer, would be retired or replaced if they malfunctioned.
No other manufacturer has offered such extensive warranty and paid remedial services for older cameras that I know of.
G
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
In terms of service with warranty experience, in 2016 Canon stopped support (with warranty) for 5D cameras from 2005 to 2008. Eight years after camera was discontinued. No service at all. But Leica will still take care on M8 (2006-2008?), just not all of the parts now available.
I just can't recall any other manufacturer with bad and major component as the sensor is. Well, no actual recall was actually ever made.
I just can't recall any other manufacturer with bad and major component as the sensor is. Well, no actual recall was actually ever made.
Huss
Veteran
Has any other manufacturer knowingly continued to sell cameras with defective sensors?
I never would have bought my M-E if I knew about this.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Leica didn't know, or intend to sell knowingly, cameras with a bad sensor. The corrosion problem surfaced and was verified in late 2014 with M9 bodies, two years AFTER the M9 was already discontinued, and AFTER the M-E the M typ 240 were released and available for purchase. Instead of discontinuing sale of the M-E cameras, due to the demand for them, they created a repair program to permanently correct the problem for them and for all the earlier models that exhibit the problem as well.
I can't understand how you can fault them for verifying the problem and coming up with a factory-authorized permanent fix. It probably cost them a heck of a lot more than just taking the cameras off the market and buying up all the older models that many many users still want and love.
G
DwF
Well-known
Thank you! me too -very good news. I will keep the thread posted as to how long I am without. I love my MM so I will be happy to have it with a new lease on life
David
Huss
Veteran
Seeing my sensor in the M-E, which had been in production for years already in the M9, went bad in 4 months after I bought it new, you really think that Leica didn't know about this for years? Really?
FYI I never wet cleaned it. And it was stored in a dry box between use. And I live in Los Angeles, not some overtly humid climate.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Luke_Miller
Established
In the poll regarding sensor corrosion
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146405&highlight=corrosion+poll
68 respondents had not experienced sensor corrosion
41 respondents had experienced sensor corrosion, and
15 were not sure
Even if you add the "not sure" to the "had experienced" group, a majority of respondents were unaffected. So it is by no means assured that a MM, M9 or M-E body with its original sensor will eventually experience corrosion.
It is also possible that the group who responded to the poll is not representative of users of those bodies as a whole. With those experiencing corrosion more likely to respond than those who had not.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146405&highlight=corrosion+poll
68 respondents had not experienced sensor corrosion
41 respondents had experienced sensor corrosion, and
15 were not sure
Even if you add the "not sure" to the "had experienced" group, a majority of respondents were unaffected. So it is by no means assured that a MM, M9 or M-E body with its original sensor will eventually experience corrosion.
It is also possible that the group who responded to the poll is not representative of users of those bodies as a whole. With those experiencing corrosion more likely to respond than those who had not.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The Leica M-E was introduced in September 2012, the same month and year that the Leica M9 was discontinued (after three years of production) and the Leica M typ 240 was introduced. The first reports of sensor corrosion problems I can find, reported on M9 bodies, date to late Spring 2014.
I'm sure Leica didn't know about the corrosion problem in 2012. There had been other problems with the sensor earlier in the model's history ... cracks and bad communications lines ... which were judged to be "single point defective" issues by all and sundry. They never amounted to more than a 1% of production warranty issue.
Since there are even now cameras that have not displayed the sensor corrosion problem, I surmise that it is a problem that surfaces after some time and under certain conditions of stress. For example, my M9 was purchased new in January 2012 and took three years to exhibit the problem. I never wet cleaned my camera's sensor either, and it was always kept in my usual manner ... mostly in a 68-75 degree, dry condominium in Silicon Valley. Far as I can tell, the camera was never stressed or subjected to unusually humid environment at all. It functioned perfectly the entire time I owned it, omitting the sensor corrosion issue itself which surfaced very rapidly about November of 2014.
Making the assumption that Leica knew that there was a corrosion problem with these sensors back when the M9 and M-E were being designed (approximately 2007 for the start of M9 development, I imagine) is to accuse them and the sensor supplier of extended fraud and conspiracy to defraud. I doubt you'll find any evidence to base that claim on, and I'm certain that it took Leica and the folks at Kodak who designed and produced the sensor for them by surprise as much as it took users by surprise. And it cost them FAR FAR more than the minor inconvenience of having the camera out of action while a new sensor was installed too.
The whole sensor corrosion issue is an unfortunate incident that has been as well handled by Leica as it is possible to imagine. You suggest a better way to handle what probably cost them a loss of several million dollars cash, a year or so worth of development effort and time, and so much user confidence and satisfaction.
G
ptpdprinter
Veteran
The question is will anyone buy a used M9/MM/ME, whose sensor has not been replaced, after August, 2017, and if so, what will they be willing to pay for it. The market will speak. I suspect the used price will fall by some percentage of the new sensor replacement cost.
DwF
Well-known
Cal, I share this sentiment as well, and if I hadn't found corrosion now would not have been as happy about it. I also agree that Leica seems to be making every effort for their customer base. This is a tricky one because many of us who own these CCD cameras would have little or no desire to "trade-up"
David