Leica LTM Sharkskin Leica IIIC K ~ 1950's Hybrid camera find

[Jaans]

Ohh I deleted the thread due to some legal probs etc. etc. ~ I still plan a book/and or a "static" museum website featuring my cameras and a brief history of the camera.

I'm not sure I know the camera that did $2,500? Please send me a link to the auction at my email

koolgirliestuff@gmail.com

I have to see if it's on my camera lists, some cameras have "come back" after years in collections, some are being resold again 🙂

Tom

Tom- unfortunately I have no link. I was following the auction for this camera on e-bay (about two weeks ago) and gave up once it hit $2000. I deleted it from my watch list but I think that it went for between $2200-2500. I'm pretty sure that there was a K on the shutter as well, which makes it more valuable I guess?? The cameras with the K on the shutter are more valuable right?

Shame about that former thread but I guess we can start again and contribute to a new thread about this most interesting camera!

Thanks again for your insight>

 

[enasniearth]

The black repaint grey iiic

The black repaint grey iiic

The camera Tom mentioned that was repainted black , if you look closely at the ad photos it retains it's grey paint vulcanite shell . The paint is worn but original . Still very nice painted black , the seller also had an early Russian 5cm lens that went high as it appeared to have zeiss glass with the light magenta coatings and the mount was very close in similarity to the wartime zeiss aluminum mount . Russian production for sure , very early though . The iiic appeared in the old iiic k thread at one point .

 

[LeicaTom]

The camera Tom mentioned that was repainted black , if you look closely at the ad photos it retains it's grey paint vulcanite shell . The paint is worn but original . Still very nice painted black , the seller also had an early Russian 5cm lens that went high as it appeared to have zeiss glass with the light magenta coatings and the mount was very close in similarity to the wartime zeiss aluminum mount . Russian production for sure , very early though . The iiic appeared in the old iiic k thread at one point .

I don't remember that particular IIIC there?......WESTLICHT/Vienna sold a few of them in the past, some of them I remember posting there.....

It's really too bad that Leitz didn't make a BLACK factory "Stepper" IIIC ~ but they DID make a handfull of "Betreibs Cameras" *In House/Work* cameras in black about mid to late 1949, the same time that a black MOOLY C motor was made......but that's another story 🙂

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

Tom- unfortunately I have no link. I was following the auction for this camera on e-bay (about two weeks ago) and gave up once it hit $2000. I deleted it from my watch list but I think that it went for between $2200-2500. I'm pretty sure that there was a K on the shutter as well, which makes it more valuable I guess?? The cameras with the K on the shutter are more valuable right?

Shame about that former thread but I guess we can start again and contribute to a new thread about this most interesting camera!

Thanks again for your insight>

oHH wait this was the one in the Netherlands.........

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEICA-ORIGINAL-...582666548?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item19bf3d9534

a "late" 1943 "K" that was originally from a stateside collection and sold on evilbay for like $1,400 and then was resold for $2,300

My opinion?

Nice camera, had the vulcanite touched up /repainted slightly, very pretty "patina" like 75% paint, the shutter K looks "dry" so there may have been material issues, overall a kool camera ~ (I just arranged a deal for one in about the same condition with the original matching numbers lens).

This camera was a deal at $1,400 (first sale) but resold at $2,300? ~ it's pretty pricey for it's lensless condition.......always one of my driving factors is that the camera STILL has it's original lens, you can't always find them that way, but when you do, it's wise advice to keep the combo together instead of breaking up history 😉

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[Vickko]

Leica boutique has a IIIc grey. My bets are that it'll be expensive

https://www.leicaboutique.com/shop.php?CUR=1&IDC=1&ENC=&IDSC=9

 

[ravid905]

The camera Tom mentioned that was repainted black , if you look closely at the ad photos it retains it's grey paint vulcanite shell . The paint is worn but original . Still very nice painted black , the seller also had an early Russian 5cm lens that went high as it appeared to have zeiss glass with the light magenta coatings and the mount was very close in similarity to the wartime zeiss aluminum mount . Russian production for sure , very early though . The iiic appeared in the old iiic k thread at one point .

I am, or should say, was the owner of the repainted black IIIc Tom mentioned a little earlier in this thread. When I first bought it, it came with a pretty ugly looking Summar mounted to it. As Tom also mentioned, the paint job on it was done very well, I have never seen an actual Leica paint job up close, so I have nothing to compare it against, but the texture on it was perfectly smooth. As for the lens enasniearth mentions, it was similar to the one Mr. Sweeney mentions in this thread: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1147990, right down to there being the additional serial number properly engraved on the bottom of the lens unit.

I must say, it was a beautiful camera, and as I waited for the buyer to pay these last few days, I secretly hoped they didn't, because I really would rather have kept it. The problem is, LTM's just aren't me. I envy all of you who jive with them, but for me, M cameras are what work. So in the end I sold that beautiful camera, the lens, and some other unused odds and ends, to raise some money to pick up a nice 35mm to go with my recently purchased (2 days ago) M4-2. As for the J-3 with possible Zeiss glass, I had no idea it would go for as much as it did.

By the way, if you want to see the camera in question, I have a set on my flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/72388369@N00/sets/72157624912637380/. Feel free to take a peek if you wish, in the long run I will just end up getting rid of those to, I don't think I could bear to see them in the future, they might make me feel 🙁

 

[LeicaTom]

I am, or should say, was the owner of the repainted black IIIc Tom mentioned a little earlier in this thread. When I first bought it, it came with a pretty ugly looking Summar mounted to it. As Tom also mentioned, the paint job on it was done very well, I have never seen an actual Leica paint job up close, so I have nothing to compare it against, but the texture on it was perfectly smooth. As for the lens enasniearth mentions, it was similar to the one Mr. Sweeney mentions in this thread: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1147990, right down to there being the additional serial number properly engraved on the bottom of the lens unit.

I must say, it was a beautiful camera, and as I waited for the buyer to pay these last few days, I secretly hoped they didn't, because I really would rather have kept it. The problem is, LTM's just aren't me. I envy all of you who jive with them, but for me, M cameras are what work. So in the end I sold that beautiful camera, the lens, and some other unused odds and ends, to raise some money to pick up a nice 35mm to go with my recently purchased (2 days ago) M4-2. As for the J-3 with possible Zeiss glass, I had no idea it would go for as much as it did.

By the way, if you want to see the camera in question, I have a set on my flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/72388369@N00/sets/72157624912637380/. Feel free to take a peek if you wish, in the long run I will just end up getting rid of those to, I don't think I could bear to see them in the future, they might make me feel 🙁

Yes, Dave that was a HOTT looking camera......nice paintjob too, whoever did it finished it in respect to the original Grey paint while all the CORRECT parts where painted black in place of the Grey.

You didn't notice any initials marked in the base plate did you? It may have been a George Carr camera, but no matter who did it, it camera out looking good 🙂

I just re-accquired my ole' 1945 Leica IIIC K (THE FIRST GREY CAMERA I EVER OWNED) it's pretty much like getting an old girlfriend back or something in that order......it will be one of the few Grey IIIC K cameras in the world that are being USED BY SOMEONE daliy to take pictures.

I will post photos soon..........

Thanks Dave for stopping on by here and sharing your ole' camera with us 😀

Tom

 

[Jaans]

oHH wait this was the one in the Netherlands.........

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEICA-ORIGINAL-...582666548?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item19bf3d9534

a "late" 1943 "K" that was originally from a stateside collection and sold on evilbay for like $1,400 and then was resold for $2,300

My opinion?

Nice camera, had the vulcanite touched up /repainted slightly, very pretty "patina" like 70% paint, the shutter K looks "dry" so there may have been material issues, overall a kool camera ~ (I just arranged a deal for one in about the same condition with the original matching numbers lens).

This camera was a deal at $1,400 (first sale) but resold at $2,300? ~ it's pretty pricey for it's lensless condition.......always one of my driving factors is that the camera STILL has it's original lens, you can't always find them that way, but when you do, it's wise advice to keep the combo together instead of breaking up history 😉

Enjoy!

Tom

Yes, you nailed it, thats the camera sale that I was referring to Tom. Thanks for tracking that down - I couldn't find it.

I perceived this camera to be quite attractive especially with the K on the shutter. Out of my budget though!

I am starting to think that there must be a lot of these cameras in Japan with collectors because I had a friend who went over to Japan a few months ago and said that he saw three in one famous shop! I think that there were two greys and one chrome. I guess that expression that goes most of the collectible leicas reside in Japan must ring true to a degree? Would you agree that a lot of K's must have made their way to Japan into the hands of collectors?

 

[LeicaTom]

Yes, you nailed it, thats the camera sale that I was referring to Tom. Thanks for tracking that down - I couldn't find it.

I perceived this camera to be quite attractive especially with the K on the shutter. Out of my budget though!

I am starting to think that there must be a lot of these cameras in Japan with collectors because I had a friend who went over to Japan a few months ago and said that he saw three in one famous shop! I think that there were two greys and one chrome. I guess that expression that goes most of the collectible leicas reside in Japan must ring true to a degree? Would you agree that a lot of K's must have made their way to Japan into the hands of collectors?

Ohh I think there's definitely some there, BUT I would say that the most cameras that survived made it back HERE to the USA after WW2 as War Trophy's ~ and many are STILL here.

And as for the serious collections, Germany's got some big "wartime" collections and also Italy, while I'm see gear there and I know a few of these wealthy collectors personally and they prefer the military stamped versions to the unmarked civilian/US Army versions etc.

Tom

 

[Jaans]

Ohh I think there's definitely some there, BUT I would say that the most cameras that survived made it back HERE to the USA after WW2 as War Trophy's ~ and many are STILL here.

And as for the serious collections, Germany's got some big "wartime" collections and also Italy, while I'm see gear there and I know a few of these wealthy collectors personally and they prefer the military stamped versions to the unmarked civilian/US Army versions etc.

Tom

It would be interesting to ascertain just how many Leica IIICK's there are left around the world. I'm sure that some people inherited there parents and grandparents cameras and perhaps don't realize what they have and its value.

Tom - have you ever hit the jackpot so to speak and found one of these most desirable cameras in a shop, market or the hands of a widow who received it from her husband who served in the war? Or did you track down your current collection of K's from other collectors? I'm guessing that the latter option would be more expensive to procure the camera.

cheers

 

[LeicaTom]

It would be interesting to ascertain just how many Leica IIICK's there are left around the world. I'm sure that some people inherited there parents and grandparents cameras and perhaps don't realize what they have and its value.

Tom - have you ever hit the jackpot so to speak and found one of these most desirable cameras in a shop, market or the hands of a widow who received it from her husband who served in the war? Or did you track down your current collection of K's from other collectors? I'm guessing that the latter option would be more expensive to procure the camera.

cheers

Hello Jaans!

How many are left? Well the Doctor and I have recorded maybe 600 to 800? I know Jim Lager has an ongoing list as well, I'd say 1,500 to 1,800 are left, or roughly half of the original production, these cameras had a demand/collectiblity since day one and were the going "THING" next to Luger pistol's on the pre 1955 "Black Market" list in Europe 🙂

As for a Jackpot....I consider myself very lucky with these cameras.

All (3) of my Grey IIIC K cameras have very colorful documented provenance's

(1) The 1943 was owned by a Sergeant who was in a forward element of the 9th Armored Division as they crossed the Rhine River on the Ludendorf Bridge at Remagen in March 1945 ~ he brought this camera and a 1938 Contax and a 1939 Rolleiflex back with him from Germany and he got a job working as a Photographer for the Black Star Agency in NYC and was published in LIFE magazine ~ (I have/own all three cameras) ~ I bought the cameras from New York and the Sergeant's family.

(2) One of my 1945 IIIC K Grey's was owned by a Japanese American US Army CIC 2nd Lieutenant who was in the European Theater of Operations in June/July 1945 when the camera was issued to him, he in turn gave the camera as a present to a Danish woman who was working as a Counter Intelligence Corps interrogator, interrogating captured German Officer's ~ shortly thereafter they married and returned to the states, he retired a US Army Colonel and when he passed away his wife sold the camera to a very well known Leica and collectible's camera shop, where I bought the camera last year.

(3) The last camera is rather special and I just re-acquired it after about 3 years, it's pretty much the camera that got me all started into this research of IIIC K's and it has had a very interesting past 5 years.......

Originally it was issued to a US Army Signal Corps Officer of the rank of Major, he most certainly photographed the Death Camps at Dachau and the
devastated landscapes of Central Europe, during late May 1945 and into the year of 1946, shooting work for the Army and for his personal use.....unfortunately none of this photography has survived, but the camera's rich history get's better and better as it would turn out to be one of the most photographed/studied and X-rayed Leica IIIC K's ever!

About (I think it was almost 6 years ago) this man passed away and this man's brother sold the camera to my fellow colleague and Leica historian/researcher Dr. Barnard of San Francisco, the good Doctor has documented this camera in photos and also with X-rays placing all the various groups of ball bearings and tech interests of the IIIC K model (this information will someday be published or displayed on a online Museum website ~ stay tuned!)
About 3 years ago I acquired this camera (as my FIRST Leica IIIC K) that I ever owned and I enjoyed it for about 6 months, until I had found another camera (the 1943) and then the camera returned to San Francisco.

Just recently I have had the desire/urge to have that Grey paint in my hands again as a "USER" camera and this camera is IT! ~ once again going to be taking photos of pretty pinup girls here in sunny Florida. 😀

"The White Glove Theatment"

One of my lovely PiNuP's Candice Marie "poses" with the San Fran Camera #3905XX K back in 2007

It is very difficult to find these cameras at all anymore and I can consider myself very fortunate to have found three of these cameras, all matching numbers bodies and lenses as well as being 100% ready to load and shoot film, just getting them all together and CLA'd and functioning has been a challenge , but for me they still do what they were meant to do "take pictures" and they also still pose as collectibles as well, each camera is interesting and I wish they could talk....what a complex dramatic story they would tell.

I think any IIIC K owner I know enjoy's their cameras, weither they still take pictures (rarely) with them, or if they fondle them in some mysterious dimly lite room late at night over a cup of coffee or a brandy.......hahahahahaha!!!! ~ welcome to the madness 🙂

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[Jaans]

Hello Jaans!

How many are left? Well the Doctor and I have recorded maybe 600 to 800? I know Jim Lager has an ongoing list as well, I'd say 1,500 to 1,800 are left, or roughly half of the original production, these cameras had a demand/collectiblity since day one and were the going "THING" next to Luger pistol's on the pre 1955 "Black Market" list in Europe 🙂

As for a Jackpot....I consider myself very lucky with these cameras.

All (3) of my Grey IIIC K cameras have very colorful documented provenance's

(1) The 1943 was owned by a Sergeant who was in a forward element of the 9th Armored Division as they crossed the Rhine River on the Ludendorf Bridge at Remagen in March 1945 ~ he brought this camera and a 1938 Contax and a 1939 Rolleiflex back with him from Germany and he got a job working as a Photographer for the Black Star Agency in NYC and was published in LIFE magazine ~ (I have/own all three cameras) ~ I bought the cameras from New York and the Sergeant's family.

(2) One of my 1945 IIIC K Grey's was owned by a Japanese American US Army CIC 2nd Lieutenant who was in the European Theater of Operations in June/July 1945 when the camera was issued to him, he in turn gave the camera as a present to a Danish woman who was working as a Counter Intelligence Corps interrogator, interrogating captured German Officer's ~ shortly thereafter they married and returned to the states, he retired a US Army Colonel and when he passed away his wife sold the camera to a very well known Leica and collectible's camera shop, where I bought the camera last year.

(3) The last camera is rather special and I just re-acquired it after about 3 years, it's pretty much the camera that got me all started into this research of IIIC K's and it has had a very interesting past 5 years.......

Originally it was issued to a US Army Signal Corps Officer of the rank of Major, he most certainly photographed the Death Camps at Dachau and the
devastated landscapes of Central Europe, during late May 1945 and into the year of 1946, shooting work for the Army and for his personal use.....unfortunately none of this photography has survived, but the camera's rich history get's better and better as it would turn out to be one of the most photographed/studied and X-rayed Leica IIIC K's ever!

About (I think it was almost 6 years ago) this man passed away and this man's brother sold the camera to my fellow colleague and Leica historian/researcher Dr. Barnard of San Francisco, the good Doctor has documented this camera in photos and also with X-rays placing all the various groups of ball bearings and tech interests of the IIIC K model (this information will someday be published or displayed on a online Museum website ~ stay tuned!)
About 3 years ago I acquired this camera (as my FIRST Leica IIIC K) that I ever owned and I enjoyed it for about 6 months, until I had found another camera (the 1943) and then the camera returned to San Francisco.

Just recently I have had the desire/urge to have that Grey paint in my hands again as a "USER" camera and this camera is IT! ~ once again going to be taking photos of pretty pinup girls here in sunny Florida. 😀

"The White Glove Theatment"

One of my lovely PiNuP's Candice Marie "poses" with the San Fran Camera #3905XX K back in 2007

It is very difficult to find these cameras at all anymore and I can consider myself very fortunate to have found three of these cameras, all matching numbers bodies and lenses as well as being 100% ready to load and shoot film, just getting them all together and CLA'd and functioning has been a challenge , but for me they still do what they were meant to do "take pictures" and they also still pose as collectibles as well, each camera is interesting and I wish they could talk....what a complex dramatic story they would tell.

I think any IIIC K owner I know enjoy's their cameras, weither they still take pictures (rarely) with them, or if they fondle them in some mysterious dimly lite room late at night over a cup of coffee or a brandy.......hahahahahaha!!!! ~ welcome to the madness 🙂

Enjoy!

Tom

Hey Tom,

Thanks for that fascinating and insightful look into the cameras history and your own personal collection.

It is great that you are using your cameras as well, because I'm sure there are many who would just let their cameras sit as display artifacts.

Thanks again

 

[LeicaTom]

Ahhh red leather????? That will catch people's eyes that's for sure.......

Didn't you like the Black Lizard?????

I really like that........all my IIIC K's have original coverings, just this newest chrome one has the "sharkskin" and I'm not going to remove that, I suppose the next Ball-Bearing "Stepper" I buy I WILL put the Black Lizard skin on it and a "wartime" Sonnar for kicks! 🙂

.....Green covering looks really nice too 🙂

I mean there's so many early IIIC's out there which have NO/ 0% vulcanite, so why not put a POSH looking covering onto it?

Johan, what's the surprise deal you worked out this past weeekend???
?
Write me off the board first, ok?????

Tom

Johan,

That Red Lizard looks pretty nice afterall......maybe you have something there, hahahaha ~ #3794xx would look very good like this, just add a "wartime" Elmar 50mm and your all set 😀

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

"The Clicker"

Always the best prop the Leica IIIC.......Leda Locke plays with one of my 45' Chrome "K" bodies/w HC Nikkor f2/50, during the Fetishcon in Tampa 🙂

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[johannielscom]

Boy, I sure hope that IIIc I'm getting from you is a chick magnet like this one here ^^

😀😀😀

The red skin on that IIIc is a bit too bright maybe, I'm still cracking my nut on what to put on that camera... 😕

Last time it took me like forever to decide on the granite goat kid skin that is on my IIIa now, and still I doubt it every now and then. Took CameraLeather forever to get it in the mail as well... would not want that to happen again.

BTW, you've got funds!

 

[john neal]

Johan,

I know what you mean about the granite kid - i have a IIIc with that. It took months to arrive, and after 2 years, I still can't decide if I like it. I actually had the original body shell revulcanited by Peter at CRR, so I now have a choice of "clothes" for that camera. The vulcanite has my vote for now.

When I finally get my grey IIIcK rebuilt, it will have vulcanite for sure - original 1944 pattern, but sprayed RLM just like the original. If I can ever get a few hours, this camera is so close to going back together......

 

[johannielscom]

Hi John,

I'm quite intrigued by what you write. I had questions but posted them to this thread, the IIIc K thread!

 

[johannielscom]

Tom,

gotta say: I'm also quite intrigued by the stuffed bunny toy on the bed stand in the Leda Locke shot you posted.
😀😀😀
What's the story?

 

[LeicaTom]

Tom,

gotta say: I'm also quite intrigued by the stuffed bunny toy on the bed stand in the Leda Locke shot you posted.
😀😀😀
What's the story?

Hahahahaha!

As I remember the stuffed bunny was an old toy of Leda's that was somehow recuited to be a background prop........yes quite odd, but funny even Elmer Batters shot some of his Fetish work with stuffed animals as well 🙂

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

Here's my latest find...... a 1945 Jos. Schneider Kreuznach Xenon f1.5 50mm in LTM

Here's my latest find...... a 1945 Jos. Schneider Kreuznach Xenon f1.5 50mm in LTM

Here's a photo of the latest "Wartime" era lens I've acquired just yesterday.....

....A 1945 JSK Xenon f1.5/50mm in LTM, mounted here on my 1945 Leica IIIC K Grey paint. (US Army Camera)

It's a very interesting and equally as rare lens, that was produced only for a very short time towards the end of WW2.
(It really looks good together with the Grey paint of this camera and it was by far the largest (widest) of the three fastest 50mm Rangefinder lenses being made in the world at that time).
*CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 - Leitz Xenon f1.5/50 and this Jos. Schneider Kreuznach Xenon f1.5/50 lens*

Overall the glass is really nice, there's some slight haze and rim fungus, but it all looks restorable, it's going off to Don Goldberg/DAG shortly to be CLA'd.

When the lens is back, I'll be shooting an extensive TEST SHOOT with my M8 in Digital and also Color and Blk N Wht film with my IIIC K Grey "user", I'll be opening a brand new thread just on the subject of this unique and very rare "wartime" Leica Thread Mount lens.

Stay Tuned!

Tom