Shoot a camera, not a gun

[tunalegs]

How so? Guns have never killed a single person..it's the finger pulling the trigger that kills..

.. and a toaster does not toast bread! (technically though I think it is the bullet that does the killing, not the finger).

Better to end someone else's life then to let them end yours..that's called self defense..

Actually without the qualification of you being attacked by them, it is called murder.

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with fertilizer....should we ban fertilizer?

Are 10,000+ U.S. citizens a year killed by fertilizer?

England has some of the strictest gun laws in the world but their crime rate involving guns has skyrocketed.(do a google search) some estimates put this rate at between 35% and 55%...

Skyrocketed to what? They have what? 60 gun deaths a year maybe, vs. our tens of thousands?

 

[colyn]

If you need to defend your home, a shotgun with double aught buck is the answer.

For home defense I use the Judge...

This hand gun will chamber either a 45 long colt or .410 shotshell. I keep it loaded with .410's...

 

[E__WOK]

 

[E__WOK]

Perpetrators of 911 used box cutters. Not a gun was used & over 3000 people were murdered. So do we need to outlaw box cutters? Look, use common sense. Maniacs will always find a method for killing people. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer & a rental truck at the Oklahoma City bombing.

Don't forget to ban high speed, high capacity carrying, aircraft carrying thousands of pounds of highly flammable toxic fuel.

 

[Jubb Jubb]

The purpose of a CCW permit is so that you can carry a gun to protect your life or the life of others.

This is one of the biggest problems with America's thinking, and probably why nothing will change. People think it is okay to carry a weapon for protection. You realise that by carrying a weapon you are endangering the lives of others?

As for this being posted in the wrong spot, I wasn't sure quite where to place it, so apologies if it isn't in the correct area.

 

[gb hill]

but it took a SEAL to pull the trigger🙂

 

[E__WOK]

This is one of the biggest problems with America's thinking, and probably why nothing will change. People think it is okay to carry a weapon for protection. You realise that by carrying a weapon you are endangering the lives of others?

As for this being posted in the wrong spot, I wasn't sure quite where to place it, so apologies if it isn't in the correct area.

Versus your life being at the mercy of the crazy middle aged white gun with a gun?

Explain to me how carrying a gun endangers other lives?

 

[colyn]

.. and a toaster does not toast bread!



Actually without the qualification of you being attacked by them, it is called murder.



Are 10,000+ U.S. citizens a year killed by fertilizer?



Skyrocketed to what? They have what? 60 gun deaths a year maybe, vs. our tens of thousands?

It's obvious you are here to argue so I won't bother responding..

In fact this is my last post on this thread. So duke it out with someone else..I'm going back to my cameras.....

 

[Jubb Jubb]

Versus your life being at the mercy of the crazy middle aged white gun with a gun?

Explain to me how carrying a gun endangers other lives?

What if they didn't have the gun in the first place? this is my point. Take the guns out of the equation.

A gun endangers lives. At any point you could take it out only for it to be taken off you and used against you. Then it is a danger.

Luckily I live in a country where guns are near impossible to find/get/use.
That is true safety.

 

[Al Patterson]

More people probably died in car crashes on Friday night than died in the shooting. So why aren't people calling that a tragedy and talking about banning cars? They represent 10 plus 9/11s a year. Terror and carnage, oh my!

I have a picture I could post from the Jewish Gun Owners, but I don't have my fireproof boxers with me this trip.

 

[gb hill]

Don't forget to ban high speed, high capacity carrying, aircraft carrying thousands of pounds of highly flammable toxic fuel.

Don't you realize that if you criminalize guns only criminals will have guns. Prohibition of alcohol only lined the pockets of criminals. Idiots don't care if the gun they have is legal or not.:bang:

 

[Frontman]

In regards to the right to keep and bear arms in America, keep in mind that in America all citizens are supposed to be equal. The military, police, etc. are not supposed to have rights over and above any other citizen, the second amendment is as much about defense against government tyranny as it is about self defense. It may sound unenecessary or irrelevant, but then again, it may not be.

I don't suppose anyone here was present at the riots in Los Angeles back in 1992. I was, and I remember mobs of looters robbing, burning, and killing with impunity. 911 did not work, callers received a busy signal, and even in the few places where the police were present, they stood down, or, worse, simply ran away. If the police won't defend you or your property, who will?

1100 buildings were burned in my city, many were killed, hundreds were injured, and no help was to be found. A few managed to help themselves, a few store owners armed with guns prevented their businesses from being looted or burned. The store where I worked was not so lucky, a car was driven through the doors, everything of value was stolen, and then the building was burned to the ground.

I am talking about Los Angeles, California, the largest city in the wealthiest state and wealthiest country in the world. If even in such a place the authorities we place our trustin can't help us, then we should at least be allowed the means to help ourselves.

It's amazing how people don't see things in perspective. The shootings were tragic, and 26 people won't be here to celebrate the holidays with their families. But on the other hand, violent crimes in America have been decreasing for more than 40 years. Statistically speaking, the UK and Australia have higher rates of vilolence than America, despite their bans on all weapons.

In 2013 more than 40,000 people will die in car accidents. These deaths are no less tragic than any others, yet there will be no increased regulation of licenses, or improvements in driver education. The AARP will continue it's fight against more frequent tests for older drivers, just as the NRA fights against more regulation of guns.

In America I am a gun owner, and I have a permit to carry a weapon or firearm. I went through the fingerprints, background checks, paid the fees, took the classes, band eventually received the permit. I have never pointed a gun at anyone. I was once attacked by two men trying to break into a storage facility. I raised my shirt, the saw the gun, and immediately fled. In America guns are used in self defense on a daily basis, but are rarely actually fired.

Americans live in a "free society", but in such a society, freedoms are often abused. It is to be expected. But I prefer such a society, and would not like it to change.

 

[gb hill]

What if they didn't have the gun in the first place? this is my point. Take the guns out of the equation.

A gun endangers lives. At any point you could take it out only for it to be taken off you and used against you. Then it is a danger.

Luckily I live in a country where guns are near impossible to find/get/use.
That is true safety.

If you don't live here in America then you have no say & don't understand our culture of gun ownership.

 

[paulfish4570]

amen, frontman.

oh yeah, i shoot cameras AND firearms ...

 

[tunalegs]

The way you use your logic towards guns and hunting, you should be against people owning cars.

That's strange because I was justifying owning guns using the logic that people own cars and both can be used to kill. Your reply seems to indicate that somehow you came to think that I wrote something entirely opposite of what I did write. Astonishing! 😉

You seem to have mistaken my idea that gun owners should be at least a tad responsible, and tad respectful of other people's property and lives, as saying that guns and hunting are inherently evil. Very funny. 😀

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Chambering a round when you have an unknown threat about to case you harm is nonsense. Do cops load their gun when they see a bad guy coming?



5.56/.223 is less prone to exit through sheet rock than handgun rounds.

Using a semi auto rifle with a 30 round mag will allow me to get quick and accurate rounds out to stop the threat. One round is not always enough to stop a threat.



There are way more law abiding citizens than criminals somehow are able to get full auto weapons?

Society will never be violence free unless there are less than two people on earth.

I have also stayed out of this til now on the basis it's likely a hiding to nothing, but I don't quite follow the above.

Look, full disclosure: I don't own a gun. I never have. I don't actually like them that much. But I do accept that there are legitimate reasons for people needing to own one.

However: not being wise in the way of weapons: how is a semi automatic rifle more accurate, than, say, a bolt action?

You say:
"Using a semi auto rifle with a 30 round mag will allow me to get quick and accurate rounds out to stop the threat."

Then you say:
"One round is not always enough to stop a threat."

Is this because, there are multiple threats? If a round fired is accurate, why, otherwise, would there be a need to fire more than one? Unless you're not shooting to kill?
I'm not necessarily challenging your comments, however I do profess to not really understanding how your statements sit with each other.

Generally: unless I've missed it, I have yet to see discussed the role the gun industry in America plays in influencing the types and volumes of firearms that are available in the USA. On the one hand I should think that they have a market, and are catering to it. On the other, to what extent, if any, do they drive the availability of the various types of weapons and the manner in which they are marketed?

I'm basing these queries on the reasonably logical assumption (I hope) that they are a part of the problem (and I hope noone woud deny that the USA does have a problem in relation to the use of firearms).
Regards
Brett

Footnote, catching up on recent posts as I've typed this one the thread seems to be heading downhill...maybe this may get it back on track. Or not. I've appreciated the respectful conversation on a contentious and emotive issue until now, so it would be disappointing to see it deteriorate to the point it's closed, as inevitable as that might appear.
Cheers,
Brett

 

[JSU]

Roger--

In the USA, black powder is classified as an explosive, smokeless powder is classified as a propellant.

People react to the term explosive differently than to the term propellant. Then there are fertilizers such as potassium nitrate. . . .

Dear Dave,

Maybe. But I see the ammo problem as more solvable than the gun problem. I'm not talking about collecting ready-to-fire rounds (not just bullets) from those who already own 'em: as you say, it ain't gonna happen. I'm talking about making it even a little more difficult to buy 'em. In California in the early 90s I had to show my driver's license to buy black powder. But not for .44 magnum, .45 Colt...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Jubb Jubb]

Cars are designed to get from a to b, guns are designed to kill. There is no comparison between the two.

I never said I lived in the states, I am expressing my opinion as many of you have too.

It's a good debate, but I still can't see why one needs a weapon.

 

[gb hill]

Cars are designed to get from a to b, guns are designed to kill. There is no comparison between the two.

I never said I lived in the states, I am expressing my opinion as many of you have too.

It's a good debate, but I still can't see why one needs a weapon.

Come live over here & in 6 months you'll change your tune.😀

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

If you don't live here in America then you have no say & don't understand our culture of gun ownership.

We live in one world. The recent events have certainly impacted way beyond the USAs borders. Are citizens of other countries now not entitled to grieve, mourn, and to question, how these things have come to pass? Or should we lack empathy and care less about the loss of these innocent lives? What a sad world that would be to live in. I do hope we're not quite there, yet.

Regards
Brett