Roger Hicks
Veteran
Which bit of "There are some people I don't trust with a gun" are you failing to understand?"
Some people are not safe to be let loose with guns. Often, these are people lacking in intelligence, empathy, education, a sense of humour, common sense, the ability to construct a logical argument... None of which is the remotest barrier to owning a gun in many jurisdictions.
Do you really think it's a bad idea to look into why someone wants a gun, what they might use it for, or whether they are delusional Rambo wannabees?
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Highlight: In which case, what's wrong with the US? And why is no-one trying to fix it except with firearms?
Cheers,
R.
This discussion isn't really going anywhere, is it.
SO, I shall call a vote:
1. Increased security for campuses, to include armed security (properly trained of course.)
2. Ban assault weapons, to be defined as any weapon that can fire a bullet. All existing weapons remain with their owners, else they become instant felons by the passage of the new laws.
What say all?
SO, I shall call a vote:
1. Increased security for campuses, to include armed security (properly trained of course.)
2. Ban assault weapons, to be defined as any weapon that can fire a bullet. All existing weapons remain with their owners, else they become instant felons by the passage of the new laws.
What say all?
Please, vote 1 or 2, ONLY. No write in votes allowed!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, any rational person is going to say that you're using false dichotomies and straw men, so let's try a vote on the following:
1 Any attempt at rational discussion is always going to be better than hysterical extremism, despite the occasional intrusion of hysterical extremists OR
2 No, let's go for hysterical extremism every time, whether it's pro-gun or anti-gun.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
cosmonaut
Well-known
What's wrong? Drugs. It's the cause behind 90% of robberies.
jtm6
Well-known
The only time I ever heard guns being discussed about Sept 11 was about arming crew and providing armed Air Marshals. Gun control was never part of any conversation I heard.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
I'm not sure it is so high. Never had my house broken into. Niether did my parents. When I had a room mate years ago their car was stolen from the detached garage on the house one night - but never did anybody try to come into the house itself. I had a friend whose apartment was broken into - while he was away for over a month. Break ins usually occur while the owners are out, and burglary rates have more or less fallen continuously since the early 1990s. I've never felt the need to own a gun for defence reasons.
How would you know "where I want this to go?"
Actually, truth is I just want it to END.
cosmonaut
Well-known
Yes and yes. I agree. I wouldn't mind giving up my guns if I lived in a safer environment and were compensated for their value.
Well this was meant to be an EITHER/OR vote, either 1 or 2.
Since the first vote was BOTH, I'll add:
3. Both 1. and 2.
Since the first vote was BOTH, I'll add:
3. Both 1. and 2.
wolves3012
Veteran
Actually I did. I read ALL of the posts. However, you have answered my question, yes it really is that unsafe then. Again, the connection between ready availability of guns and their use in crime passes you by. If the "perps" (I assume that's "perpetrators") didn't have guns...no? Yes, I do realise it's simplistic to think all guns can be removed but making firearms illegal for the general population cannot be more dangerous than making them (relatively) freely available.
I've never visited the USA and I get more convinced all the time that I never will. It has much to attract and I'm sure most of the population are fine, upstanding citizens. Nevertheless, I'll pass on a place where gun-toting is considered acceptable.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
cosmonaut
Well-known
Well I actually work for the local school system and also work on security systems and security cameras. I think access control and security guards are a start. We have armed resource officers at our high schools but none in the middle schools or elementary schools. The first 15 years I worked for the schools we had maybe one break in. Now it's all the time. As far as the cameras the last few that broke in wore mask. Most often the robber is wanting something to sell for drug money.
68degrees
Well-known
I told myself that i would not participate in political threads but I cant resist here. haha I dont know if this has been mentioned before, I havent read the whole thread but what Im about to post is at least photography related and is in my view the perfect tie in to this topic that we photographers all can relate to.
I cant take credit (or blame) for this because I heard this from someone else but. Have you ever considered Gun Law logic comparable to Camera Law logic.
Ban Cameras because some people use them for child porn. If you ban cameras there certainly wouldnt be anymore child porn would there? or terrorism. or for break ins, robberys, stalking, etc etc.
Is that too strict? and unreasonable? Ok How about requirement to register all cameras new and used. Just your name and address. No?
What about a 30 day waiting period and fbi background check, dna registration, fingerprints etc, before being allowed to register a camera and buy it?
How about, Cameras ok, single shot but no motor drives or film winders.
How about resolutions greater than 2Mp are illegal. Film cameras banned outright for their superior resolution. (*ducks*)
Telephoto lenses are limited to 100mm. Nothing longer or jail time.
Remember we are trying to end child porn, domestic terrorism, crimes against women, stalking etc with these new camera laws. and on and on and on it goes.
Whats that you say? You dont think criminals use photography to help them commit violent crimes and murder?
You laugh but we are not far away from camera laws. Have you ever known anyone taking pictures accused or suspected of being a terrorist or child predator or a stalker or voyer?
Because some think its wierd to go around taking pictures of strangers and public infrastructure, these laws may be closer than you think.
Would laws like that stop terrorism or child crime? No. They would still find a way.
As horrible as these acts are, in my view you cannot change all human behavior with laws. Laws are only for people who obey laws.
People who obey laws are the same people who dont need laws because they know right from wrong and choose to do the right thing because its the right thing to do.
People that do these heinous acts are completely broken and damaged beyond repair. Laws will not stop them from doing the things they do.
We all start out as little babies and along the way some people become so damaged that they end up desiring and choosing to do these heinous things.
Unless it is completely genetic, we need to figure out what is creating these malfunctioning people and change whatever dynamics in society that is causing it. Simply saying "they just choose to do it" is not enough. Ultimately they choose to do it but why? and can we do anything as a society to eliminate the cause.
Ok everybody theres my 2 cents go back to your respective rants. haha.
cosmonaut
Well-known
Well that's a good idea but there are estimated at 270 million guns in the US and the biggest part are probably not registered. If they ban guns crooks will still be able to buy them on the black market. Since Obama has been in office the sell of guns are through the roof as the Conservatives are convinced Obama is going to ban guns. Also carry permits are selling in high numbers, which I have and since the school shooting you wouldn't believe gun sales now.
Paul T.
Veteran
well, that argument was posted about two pages back. As in, if you ban guns, why not ban cars.
THen this argument was posted about one page back. As in, if you ban guns, why not penises.
Both arguments are entirely irrelevant. Both cars and penises are not designed specifically to kill.
Sparrow
Veteran
... there! you worked that out yourself ... that's one way, but you're just being silly in the first bit it isn't really a way of life is it? that would surely be intolerable and lead to lots of unstable people
cosmonaut
Well-known
FWIW, I own three guns. Two Glocks and a Desert Eagle.
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