Show me your 9x12 folder

[oftheherd]

OK, this is RFF, but there is obvious interest in other types of cameras. Recently it seems there has been an inerest in 9x12 folders. I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone has.

A few days ago I showed what Chippy has identified as a Balda, which was used by my father with a 127 roll film camera.

Here I show one of mine that I have purchased from the 'bay. This one is unsual from having a film pack with all 12 sheets of film still in the pack. I have an extra groud glass back (Welta) that fits it, and some Welta sheet film backs that should.

I thought it interesting that there is a focusing lever behind the lens, that goes from infinity to 2 meters. It is on the right as one is behind the camera. Then in the door, there is a stop on the floor, and after that, markings for 125, 100, and 1 meter(s). I haven't figured out how to make it move to those markings as everything is rather stiff, and needs cleaning. It may have been common, but it's the only 9x12 I have seen like it.

Those of you more experienced may have seen it before, and I look forward to your comments, and your photos of your own 9x12 cameras.

 

[oftheherd]

Sure will Chippy. But it will have to wait until tonight when I get home from work. I thought about that after I posted those photos. Any clue how that might be extended? I think it is just stiff and needs a good cleaning. It is difficult to extend the bellows, and I can't get it to the 125/100/1 meter marks. Oh well, another project for a weekend. What unusual 9x12's can you conjure up and show us Chippy?

 

[FallisPhoto]

This one is unsual from having a film pack with all 12 sheets of film still in the pack.

Do you know if anyone has ever taken one of these film packs apart to see how it works? I'd be interested to see if one could be duplicated using modern cut-down sheet film. I've got a film pack holder and sheet film holders for my Voigtlander Avus. I have shot cut film and rollfilm (I have one holder that I share between two cameras), and would like to try film packs, if I can make them.

 

[oftheherd]

Here are two photos showing the front of the Agfa Standard. From the top you can see the focusing scale for the radial focusing lever (I learned a new word there), and the top deck of the folding door. There you can see the 125/100/1 meter marks. The second shot, from the front, shows the front standard. The button in the middle at the bottom of the standard turns out to be the key to the standard getting forward to the forward marks. If it is left as shown, to the right, but with the zero showing, it stops at the first stop. If that button is moved all the way to the left and the standard is pulled forward, it will move forward. To the left, covered by the button is the letter Z, so the zero may be the letter O. Hope this is enlightening.

 

[oftheherd]

Do you know if anyone has ever taken one of these film packs apart to see how it works? I'd be interested to see if one could be duplicated using modern cut-down sheet film. I've got a film pack holder and sheet film holders for my Voigtlander Avus. I have shot cut film and rollfilm (I have one holder that I share between two cameras), and would like to try film packs, if I can make them.

My recollection from years ago (so maybe faulty), is that the film pack film was on a thinner substrate than single shot cut film. I think it would be difficult to get them to work the same. However, wasn't there a holder for Graphics that did use the thicker cut film? Something might be adapted from that to fit a 9x12. Maybe even one of those holders, just fit on a 9x12 cut film holder.

 

[oftheherd]

Hey guys, where are your 9x12 cameras?

 

[oftheherd]

oh btw oftheherd the round knob on the right that unscrews in it chrome bracket (standing behind the camera) is there for a modest adjust in rise or fall...i.e. if you want to get the top of a subject in the frame without pointing the camera in an upward angle, and thus distorting the perpective somewhat. moving the rise up will help keep the perpective true and still get the top in frame

Thanks Chippy. I noted that too. Seems kind of hokey, but functional. Most I have seen used a screw on the standard. A few even have shift, and think I saw one with swing. I don't think I have ever seen one with tilt. The FSU noted the defeciency and corrected it on my Moskva 5. 😀

 

[oftheherd]

...

... the 150 125 and 1 marks are actually 1.5m 1.25m and 1 meter..

...

Duh! I should have looked closer and figured that out. Especially given that the focusing lever goes down to 2 meters IIRC. One of these days I will try to take it apart enough to clean things up. The standard is really hard to pull down the rails, and the focusing lever simply refuses to budge. Also the shutter seems to view the world in only one speed. I would like to get it going and try that out. I hope to get in some 4x5 film today and would like to cut some down for my Welta.

I just have to find the Welta. I had to do a major cleanup move of a lot of my gear a couple of years ago. It was while looking through boxes that I refound the Agfa. Also some of my 35mm cameras, like my Yashica TL Supers, the Pentax SV, and my 3rd and 4th Yashica FX 103s. The Welta is in there somewhere.

I think what I need is a big stick to stir with, and when the Welta comes up I can just grab it. 😀

 

[oftheherd]

I have seen many 9x12 that have double extension. I think my father's did but would have to look again. You can tell by the knob on the bed normally. The would allow a rail to move forward rather than just the standard on the rail.

 

[jan normandale]

interesting thread, I've never heard nor seen a 9x12 folder before. I gotta get out more I guess. Doing a quick conversion from metric to imperial I'm getting something close to a 4x5 camera.

How easy is it to get film for this format?

 

[chippy]

interesting thread, I've never heard nor seen a 9x12 folder before. I gotta get out more I guess. Doing a quick conversion from metric to imperial I'm getting something close to a 4x5 camera.

How easy is it to get film for this format?

Jan , yes 9x12 was the european equivilent format/size to 4x5..they also used 6.5x9 and 10x15cm which would be simular to 5x7.

sources are not a plentfull as they used to be but freestyle still sell it in b/w and colour negs .

very enjoyable cameras to use and come in almost any lens you can name. they are heaps of these around. one thing to watch for is the plate holders are almost always made to acept glass plate, so an insert (often called a film sheath) needs to be placed in the plate holder so the film is at the position the Ground Glass is.

the inserts are more difficult to get but quite easy to fabricate oneself, once they have been made and inserted there no reason to take them out nowadays, as of course your not likely to want to use a glass plate negative (tho some people do still use them). another way is to buy a roll film back for a 6x9 neg, it takes the advantage away from having the big negative but turns the camera into a slight telephoto lens

 

[chippy]

Thanks Chippy. I noted that too. Seems kind of hokey, but functional. Most I have seen used a screw on the standard. A few even have shift, and think I saw one with swing. I don't think I have ever seen one with tilt. The FSU noted the defeciency and corrected it on my Moskva 5. 😀

yeah very few around with swing, i have seen some--some english models come to mind and perhaps Krugner in Germany...i dont think i have ever seen one with tilt either, i remember when i first started looking at these i thought, hey! there must be one with tilt somewhere but i havn't seen it. all of mine use the rise and fall with the screw knob on the top and a screw knob for shift as well. no doubt it has to easier/nicer to use like that, somewhat more travel as well athough on a camera fitted with a lower end lens its more travel than is practable.

 

[oftheherd]

interesting thread, I've never heard nor seen a 9x12 folder before. I gotta get out more I guess. Doing a quick conversion from metric to imperial I'm getting something close to a 4x5 camera.

How easy is it to get film for this format?

I think several companies sell that size. As Chippy mentioned, Freestyle has it. If you go to http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_main.php you will see on the left links for all things they offer. Here is one example of their b/w and I think they have more as well: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=404&pid=1000002044.

The old 9x12 cameras have a sort of charm of their own. Also, they are surprisingly compact for the size negative they deliver, but they don't normally change lenses. In fact I only ever heard of one, which is listed on ebay right now. First I ever saw myself. Chippy or some others may have infor on others.

But normal ones aren't too expensive, and are fun to use. Most have "sports" finders, as well as a mirrored viewfinder that are quick to use if not as accurate as the ground glass. Check out ebay and other sources, as well I hope, here, if people will start posting photos of their own.

I should have some 4x5 film coming in today, and that is what I usually use, just cutting it down. I have several cut film holders that I use with various folders. Or at least used to. I am just getting back to using them. You might want to take a quick look at my thread http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62688 to see what my father did with one.

 

[oftheherd]

yeah very few around with swing, i have seen some--some english models come to mind and perhaps Krugner in Germany...i dont think i have ever seen one with tilt either, i remember when i first started looking at these i thought, hey! there must be one with tilt somewhere but i havn't seen it. all of mine use the rise and fall with the screw knob on the top and a screw knob for shift as well. no doubt it has to easier/nicer to use like that, somewhat more travel as well athough on a camera fitted with a lower end lens its more travel than is practable.

True. BTW, I think it was the last issue of Popular Photography and Imaging, where they show their 25 and 50 year old covers and stories, where someone mentioned using a 9x12, upside down on a tripid, in order to get fall. Not all 9x12 had both rise and fall, some only having normal and rise.

 

[chippy]

hehe ..desparete times call for desperate measures....ya just cant stop a keen photographer from getting the pic he wants eh!

 

[oftheherd]

Cute camera Chippy. Thanks for that link. That was fascinating to see those photos and read the commentary. How wonderful that was preserved.

 

[Abbazz]

Jan , yes 9x12 was the european equivilent format/size to 4x5..they also used 6.5x9 and 10x15cm which would be simular to 5x7.

AFAIK, the European equivalent to 5x7 is 13x18cm.

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[oftheherd]

That really is an unusual Welta Chippy. How is it in use? That would make one more 9x12 I have seen with interchangable lenses. That was quite uncommon to my knowleddge. Have you used it in the close-up mode?

 

[Solinar]

I'm surprised no one has posted a photo of a Voigtlander Bergheil - a not so rare 9x12 sheet film folder.

 

[oftheherd]

I'm surprised no one has posted a photo of a Voigtlander Bergheil - a not so rare 9x12 sheet film folder.

I am surprised there aren't a lot of other 9x12 folders here. I know Chippy and I can't be the only ones who have one. Even if people here bought them to put on the shelf it would be fun to share.

I just got in an order of Efke 100 film. And of course, hurricane Hanna is filling the sky. But, I am loading up the 9x12 (and some 4x5) holders to try the Balda and the Leca 9x12 cameras. I can't wait to see the results. It will require some experimentation as I want to see results from development in both D-76 and Pyro. I might even try some in FG-7.