S
Sean Reid
Guest
Charles D. Orze said:
You're welcome, glad that you enjoyed them.
Cheers,
Sean
Shutter Release Problem - Please Chime In
- Thread starter Sean Reid
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You're welcome, glad that you enjoyed them.
Cheers,
Sean
S
Sean Reid
Guest
Gid said:
OK, when I get a charged battery I'll try and see if that's the case with mine. Thanks.
Cheers,
Sean
chametzoo
Member
Sean...My experience was the same as GLD's above and have read as much in other forums. It's something Epson missed in design. My serial number was about 18xx (camera was returned for focusing reasons.) Michael
DanielT
Member
Hi Sean, I have the same problem with the shutter (serial number is 0021xx and the number of exposures is 3520)
Daniel
Daniel
driggett
Established
I am wondering because of all my other problems that this wont happen to me once my exposure gets up there. Let's see now we have the following defects for this camera.
RF out of alignment
Drunken frame lines
Hot/Bad pixels in ccd
Hot/bad pixels in lcd
shutter button problems
That's 5 major problems so fat. I wonder what is next. Will this is the first camera of it's type. When I was talking to the APS guy on Friday he said that they may some guidelines on what is a defect and what is not. I told him that would be fine if this was a cheap camera but a $3000 camera is not acceptable. I said that they put $2400 dollars worth of electronics in a $600 camera body. To me that like putting a porsche engine in a vw bug.
Cheers,
Chris
RF out of alignment
Drunken frame lines
Hot/Bad pixels in ccd
Hot/bad pixels in lcd
shutter button problems
That's 5 major problems so fat. I wonder what is next. Will this is the first camera of it's type. When I was talking to the APS guy on Friday he said that they may some guidelines on what is a defect and what is not. I told him that would be fine if this was a cheap camera but a $3000 camera is not acceptable. I said that they put $2400 dollars worth of electronics in a $600 camera body. To me that like putting a porsche engine in a vw bug.
Cheers,
Chris
David Kieltyka
Clicking away feverishly
Chris, I doubt the issue Sean describes has anything to do with the number of exposures you've taken. I had it happen the first time I put the camera on a tripod. In fact I've never had it happen unless I've had the camera on a tripod, since otherwise I tend to ignore the LCD screen when I'm taking pics.
I don't think it has anything to do with the screen being physically in the out position, except this means you've probably been using it. It's the use of the screen that results in the problem occuring. I do think it's a firmware thing and that every R-D1 made to date manifests the problem under the "right" conditions. Like Sean says the camera appears to be awake--the LCD screen is off but the dials are all active--but when you press the shutter button rather than taking a photo you wake up the camera from some intermediate sleep state. It's the same behavior as when the RAW buffer is full and you press the shutter. Except in this case the buffer isn't full.
All part of the fun we users of a first-generation product get to enjoy.
-Dave-
I don't think it has anything to do with the screen being physically in the out position, except this means you've probably been using it. It's the use of the screen that results in the problem occuring. I do think it's a firmware thing and that every R-D1 made to date manifests the problem under the "right" conditions. Like Sean says the camera appears to be awake--the LCD screen is off but the dials are all active--but when you press the shutter button rather than taking a photo you wake up the camera from some intermediate sleep state. It's the same behavior as when the RAW buffer is full and you press the shutter. Except in this case the buffer isn't full.
All part of the fun we users of a first-generation product get to enjoy.
-Dave-
SimonPJ
Well-known
(Hello. I'm newly registered to this useful and interesting forum.)
I have experienced this problem with each of the two R-D1's that I have had. The one I'm now using is #3530 with about 3000 exposures on it.
I haven't done systematic testing to work out the exact camera condition when it happens, as it always happens in the heat of shooting and I just stab away at the release until it goes. Sometimes, of course, what I'm experiencing is the fact that the LCD was on (but not often, because I rarely use it) or that the buffer is full, which happens far more often.
But I definitely do experience something with the shutter release that has seemed to me like a computer hanging. Sometimes it simply requires a second stab at the release (as if the LCD was on), and sometimes I have to wait a few seconds before the shutter releases again (as if the buffer was full). Sometimes it has seemed well and truly stuck and I switch off and back on again to clear it up.
I do find this quite a serious problem. Combined with buffer-related shutter delays it means that the R-D1 is very far from having the moment-capturing ability associated with rangefinders. I console myself with the fact that I do shoot far more frames than I would with film, raising the moment-capturing odds that way.
My second R-D1 has experienced no other problems. It focuses well with a very wide range of lenses, both long and short, and the rangefinder patch has remained properly aligned.
My first R-D1 had a problem that I haven't seen reported elsewhere. After about 1000 exposures about one in four exposures were blank (black).
(Apart from the shutter release problem the only thing that I have become increasingly aware of is the limitated dynamic range when shooting at higher ISO's. I'm often frustrated by noisy shadows when shooting people from the dark side in dim interiors. Exposing for the shadows results in ugly blown out highlights with that nasty digital bleeding halo. At first I thought the R-D1 was doing better than film in those circumstances, but now I can see that the forgiving range of my habitual Fuji Press 800 works better for me.)
Simon PJ
I have experienced this problem with each of the two R-D1's that I have had. The one I'm now using is #3530 with about 3000 exposures on it.
I haven't done systematic testing to work out the exact camera condition when it happens, as it always happens in the heat of shooting and I just stab away at the release until it goes. Sometimes, of course, what I'm experiencing is the fact that the LCD was on (but not often, because I rarely use it) or that the buffer is full, which happens far more often.
But I definitely do experience something with the shutter release that has seemed to me like a computer hanging. Sometimes it simply requires a second stab at the release (as if the LCD was on), and sometimes I have to wait a few seconds before the shutter releases again (as if the buffer was full). Sometimes it has seemed well and truly stuck and I switch off and back on again to clear it up.
I do find this quite a serious problem. Combined with buffer-related shutter delays it means that the R-D1 is very far from having the moment-capturing ability associated with rangefinders. I console myself with the fact that I do shoot far more frames than I would with film, raising the moment-capturing odds that way.
My second R-D1 has experienced no other problems. It focuses well with a very wide range of lenses, both long and short, and the rangefinder patch has remained properly aligned.
My first R-D1 had a problem that I haven't seen reported elsewhere. After about 1000 exposures about one in four exposures were blank (black).
(Apart from the shutter release problem the only thing that I have become increasingly aware of is the limitated dynamic range when shooting at higher ISO's. I'm often frustrated by noisy shadows when shooting people from the dark side in dim interiors. Exposing for the shadows results in ugly blown out highlights with that nasty digital bleeding halo. At first I thought the R-D1 was doing better than film in those circumstances, but now I can see that the forgiving range of my habitual Fuji Press 800 works better for me.)
Simon PJ
S
Sean Reid
Guest
Guests just left, haven't done the tests yet but regarding dynamic range (which is similar to most DSLRs):
1. Consider trying some of the older, lower contrast lenses from Canon, Leica, etc. This option is not as easily available for DSLRs.
2. In RAW conversion in PhotoRAW, try changing the black and white points so that they don't clip so early. The default settings clip both ends of the tonal scale quite noticeably. Sometimes just moving those black and white points can recover a suprising amount of detail on either end (or both).
In my notes to the PhotoRAW team, I've asked them to consider modifying the program so that one can specify settings before batching (as opposed to the camera just picking up the tags from the in-camera settings). One could have a default set of black and white point settings for various lenses to maximize the dynamic range of each. For example, I'm about to start working again on a set of files made with the (superb) Nokton 50/1.5 in very contrasty sunlight. On my current frame I have the white point set to -12 and the black point set to -19. It varies from frame to frame but one could choose default settings for a given lens and apply them for the initial batch conversions.
I'll report back on my shutter tests later on.
Cheers,
Sean
1. Consider trying some of the older, lower contrast lenses from Canon, Leica, etc. This option is not as easily available for DSLRs.
2. In RAW conversion in PhotoRAW, try changing the black and white points so that they don't clip so early. The default settings clip both ends of the tonal scale quite noticeably. Sometimes just moving those black and white points can recover a suprising amount of detail on either end (or both).
In my notes to the PhotoRAW team, I've asked them to consider modifying the program so that one can specify settings before batching (as opposed to the camera just picking up the tags from the in-camera settings). One could have a default set of black and white point settings for various lenses to maximize the dynamic range of each. For example, I'm about to start working again on a set of files made with the (superb) Nokton 50/1.5 in very contrasty sunlight. On my current frame I have the white point set to -12 and the black point set to -19. It varies from frame to frame but one could choose default settings for a given lens and apply them for the initial batch conversions.
I'll report back on my shutter tests later on.
Cheers,
Sean
SimonPJ
Well-known
Thanks Sean. Just followed your advice with the Epson Raw programme. I hadn't noticed how much was being clipped on some images - and how much can be brought back with the black and white points.
Now I'll get on with working out how much improvement that can make.
Now I'll get on with working out how much improvement that can make.
S
Sean Reid
Guest
Hi Simon,
It's easy to miss because they have it under the "special" menu with the vignetting settings. This makes little sense and I suspect that they only put it there because it fit. I'll bet a lot of people haven't played with it. It belongs in the same family as the contrast, etc. controls. It is indeed quite surprising to see how more more range is actually in the RAW files than what the default settings deliver. It's also yet another good reason to use RAW. Curious to read how you make out.
Cheers,
Sean
It's easy to miss because they have it under the "special" menu with the vignetting settings. This makes little sense and I suspect that they only put it there because it fit. I'll bet a lot of people haven't played with it. It belongs in the same family as the contrast, etc. controls. It is indeed quite surprising to see how more more range is actually in the RAW files than what the default settings deliver. It's also yet another good reason to use RAW. Curious to read how you make out.
Cheers,
Sean
pfogle
Well-known
Hi, re the 'shutter problem'
Quote: 'When the camera goes into sleep mode, the various dials all go to their null positions. That isn't the case when this happens.'
that isn't what happens on my camera... I've set the sleep timer to 3 mins, and at that time, the *battery* meter goes to E but the others stay in position. I haven't timed when they go to zero, it may be after 30mins.
So you can easliy be fooled into thinking the camera's on, when in fact it is in sleep mode, and will need the 'double press'. The only clue is the battery meter, and you don't get the shutter indicator in the v/f.
cheers
Phil
Quote: 'When the camera goes into sleep mode, the various dials all go to their null positions. That isn't the case when this happens.'
that isn't what happens on my camera... I've set the sleep timer to 3 mins, and at that time, the *battery* meter goes to E but the others stay in position. I haven't timed when they go to zero, it may be after 30mins.
So you can easliy be fooled into thinking the camera's on, when in fact it is in sleep mode, and will need the 'double press'. The only clue is the battery meter, and you don't get the shutter indicator in the v/f.
cheers
Phil
Bruce H. Dorn
B. Rex
Hi Sean,
Mine has done this since new. So much for the decisive moment...
Bruce
Mine has done this since new. So much for the decisive moment...
Bruce
S
Sean Reid
Guest
Hi Phil,
Perhaps I remembered incorrectly about the what the dials do during sleep mode. I don't think that the sleep mode is causing the problem for me. I have it set to 20 mins and almost never go that long between exposures when I'm shooting. Therefore, I almost never experience it. I'd rather pack extra batteries than miss a shot while my camera wakes up.
Hi Bruce,
Welcome. For those who may not know Bruce, he is a very talented and well-respected wedding photographer. I have no problem at all with shutter response when the LCD is folded in. Since I work that way (LCD folded in) most of the time, it wasn't until two things overlapped that I became aware of how often this strange shutter behavior was happening:
1. George Weir discussed the problem he's having (in this respect) with the review R-D1
2. As part of my lens testing, I've been babysitting the histogram much more than I usually do with this camera esp. since lenses like the Leica Asphs run can run so hot in the highlights.
Tonight, I seem to be in a "cannot replicate" situation. The camera is behaving itself. It most certainly was not behaving itself all the time yesterday and I'm trying to figure this out. If Epson can implement a one-touch LCD cancel/shutter release that might be best. Meanwhile I'm going to keep trying to isolate the conditions that this occurs under.
As for HCB's decisive moment, we can get it consistently just as he did. That is to say - sans histogram. Many aspects of this camera encourage one to just ignore that histogram and work from one's internal mental meter in combination with AE mode. Then again, when one is shooting unrepeatable events, for pay, as you and I are, the histogram does provide a margin of comfort.
Cheers,
Sean
Perhaps I remembered incorrectly about the what the dials do during sleep mode. I don't think that the sleep mode is causing the problem for me. I have it set to 20 mins and almost never go that long between exposures when I'm shooting. Therefore, I almost never experience it. I'd rather pack extra batteries than miss a shot while my camera wakes up.
Hi Bruce,
Welcome. For those who may not know Bruce, he is a very talented and well-respected wedding photographer. I have no problem at all with shutter response when the LCD is folded in. Since I work that way (LCD folded in) most of the time, it wasn't until two things overlapped that I became aware of how often this strange shutter behavior was happening:
1. George Weir discussed the problem he's having (in this respect) with the review R-D1
2. As part of my lens testing, I've been babysitting the histogram much more than I usually do with this camera esp. since lenses like the Leica Asphs run can run so hot in the highlights.
Tonight, I seem to be in a "cannot replicate" situation. The camera is behaving itself. It most certainly was not behaving itself all the time yesterday and I'm trying to figure this out. If Epson can implement a one-touch LCD cancel/shutter release that might be best. Meanwhile I'm going to keep trying to isolate the conditions that this occurs under.
As for HCB's decisive moment, we can get it consistently just as he did. That is to say - sans histogram. Many aspects of this camera encourage one to just ignore that histogram and work from one's internal mental meter in combination with AE mode. Then again, when one is shooting unrepeatable events, for pay, as you and I are, the histogram does provide a margin of comfort.
Cheers,
Sean
Last edited by a moderator:
pfogle
Well-known
Sean,
interesting that your results are not consistent - it sure sounds like a programming bug to me - some routine where they've forgotten to put in a 'clear' or something. So perhaps we should petition Epson to get on with a firmware update.
Like others here, I've experienced this intermittently, but assumed it we me rather than the camera. Right now I can't get it to happen.
Last question - has anyone seen this problem for sure, after turning off the LCD using the display button on the back? Does it sometimes happen (as suggested in Simon's post) in the middle of a sequence of shots where the LCD hasn't been used at all? If so, is it only after a delay?
cheers
Phil
interesting that your results are not consistent - it sure sounds like a programming bug to me - some routine where they've forgotten to put in a 'clear' or something. So perhaps we should petition Epson to get on with a firmware update.
Like others here, I've experienced this intermittently, but assumed it we me rather than the camera. Right now I can't get it to happen.
Last question - has anyone seen this problem for sure, after turning off the LCD using the display button on the back? Does it sometimes happen (as suggested in Simon's post) in the middle of a sequence of shots where the LCD hasn't been used at all? If so, is it only after a delay?
cheers
Phil
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
I had the problem occur again yesterday while shooting, but as I was involved with the subject I didn't have time to try a diagnosis. Unfortunately this is usually the case. My normal reaction is to stab away at the shutter untill it works so I can continue shooting as quickley as possible. I think I had LCD open and had checked the Histogram on it a few shots back.
I have tried a few configurations today with a paticular emphasis on shooting with the LCD out and then turning on with the Display button and then off with either the Display button or First press on the shutter button to see if this has a bearing.
i.e.
1. Turn display on with display button. Turn off with same button. Fire 10 shots.
2.Turn display on with display button. Turn off with first press of shutter button. Fire 10 shots.
but no reoccurrance today. Perhaps this is a special (unwanted) Easter Egg in the Epson Firmware. :bang:
I have tried a few configurations today with a paticular emphasis on shooting with the LCD out and then turning on with the Display button and then off with either the Display button or First press on the shutter button to see if this has a bearing.
i.e.
1. Turn display on with display button. Turn off with same button. Fire 10 shots.
2.Turn display on with display button. Turn off with first press of shutter button. Fire 10 shots.
but no reoccurrance today. Perhaps this is a special (unwanted) Easter Egg in the Epson Firmware. :bang:
DaShiv
21st century digital boy
That reminds me, Sean -- glad to see you're doing contrast testing on the fast lenses, since I'm curious to see which fast and low-contrast options are out there. I love the 35 'lux ASPH but I do find myself dialing a little bit of -EC to protect highlights at times, especially outdoors. I'm waiting to see if the VC 40/1.4 or similar alternatives might work better under high contrast conditions.
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
I have now found one way to make the shutter release problem occur. I have found that there are two Power Saving levels on the R-D1. "Light Sleep" & "Deep Sleep".
"Light Sleep" is as set by the user i.e. 3, 5, 10 or 20 mins. In "Light Sleep" on the indicator dial only the battery needle returns to the small white (off) triangle, the other settings and number of exposures remain as last set by the user.
"Deep Sleep" occurs after 30 minutes and is independant of the user setting. In "Deep Sleep" all indicator needles return to the small white (off) triangles and the number of exposures reads E (empty). This is the same as if the camera was switched off.
From "Light Sleep" the camera takes only about one second to respond after the first tap on the shutter button. From "Deep Sleep" it takes nearly 5 seconds no matter how many times you press the shutter release before the shutter will fire.
I am not sure that this agrees with Sean's experience but its worth carefully thinking about how long ago it was when you last touched the release if the problem occures.
I will try to remember to keep retapping mine within 30 minutes in future so that it only takes the Light nap.
"Light Sleep" is as set by the user i.e. 3, 5, 10 or 20 mins. In "Light Sleep" on the indicator dial only the battery needle returns to the small white (off) triangle, the other settings and number of exposures remain as last set by the user.
"Deep Sleep" occurs after 30 minutes and is independant of the user setting. In "Deep Sleep" all indicator needles return to the small white (off) triangles and the number of exposures reads E (empty). This is the same as if the camera was switched off.
From "Light Sleep" the camera takes only about one second to respond after the first tap on the shutter button. From "Deep Sleep" it takes nearly 5 seconds no matter how many times you press the shutter release before the shutter will fire.
I am not sure that this agrees with Sean's experience but its worth carefully thinking about how long ago it was when you last touched the release if the problem occures.
I will try to remember to keep retapping mine within 30 minutes in future so that it only takes the Light nap.
S
Sean Reid
Guest
Hi Jim,
That's an interesting discovery and that explains why I had remembered sleep mode as all the needles going to the null position. Generally, my camera only goes into sleep mode when I put it in my bag without remembering to turn it off. I take it out and the needles look as they would if the camera was off...but it isn't....it's in the "deep sleep" mode you've just coined.
Unfortunately, it doesn't relate to my shutter problem. I'll see if I can isolate it today as time allows.
Cheers,
Sean
That's an interesting discovery and that explains why I had remembered sleep mode as all the needles going to the null position. Generally, my camera only goes into sleep mode when I put it in my bag without remembering to turn it off. I take it out and the needles look as they would if the camera was off...but it isn't....it's in the "deep sleep" mode you've just coined.
Unfortunately, it doesn't relate to my shutter problem. I'll see if I can isolate it today as time allows.
Cheers,
Sean
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
Sean,
Yes as you have a 20 min. user setting (I usually have mine set at 5 mins)you would probably miss the change in the Null position after 30 mins. Sorry that this does not seem to be the answer in your case. I will also keep checking to see if it occurs outside of this power mode.
Yes as you have a 20 min. user setting (I usually have mine set at 5 mins)you would probably miss the change in the Null position after 30 mins. Sorry that this does not seem to be the answer in your case. I will also keep checking to see if it occurs outside of this power mode.
mtokue
Well-known
Sean,
I have been following this thread for a couple of days and I too am in the"cannot replicate"
situation, But I must admit that when I first read your post , I remember thinking hey! thats happened to me as well.... But alas since then It hasn't occured.
A by product of keeping an eye out for this is that I have noticed that of the three SD cards that I use most often ( Two are SanDisk UltraII 512mb one is a Lexar HS 512mb) one of the SanDisk is either in need of a deep format or is on its way out because it takes much longer to write to that disk. The red led seems to be on for a good three seconds with that disk.
which necessitates a rather long pause. between shots.
I will let you know if I suceed to replicate the shutter problem.
Mike.
I have been following this thread for a couple of days and I too am in the"cannot replicate"
situation, But I must admit that when I first read your post , I remember thinking hey! thats happened to me as well.... But alas since then It hasn't occured.
A by product of keeping an eye out for this is that I have noticed that of the three SD cards that I use most often ( Two are SanDisk UltraII 512mb one is a Lexar HS 512mb) one of the SanDisk is either in need of a deep format or is on its way out because it takes much longer to write to that disk. The red led seems to be on for a good three seconds with that disk.
which necessitates a rather long pause. between shots.
I will let you know if I suceed to replicate the shutter problem.
Mike.
