Zorki fan
Zorki Fan
Hi all,
the GAS bug has struck again.
I've been on the bay over the last few days, finger just poised over the 'Bid Now' button..
What do you folks think about the Kiev 60 medium format SLR-type cameras?
I know that a number of them left the factory as pristine paper-weights, but there are some that actually work.
Questions - to those who have played with one
- When advancing the film wind lever, is it known to be a little on the gritty side? In terms of feeling I mean. I've played with one sample and that struck me as being odd. Or is that representative of the type.
- How does one tell if one has a good functioning example. If the shutter fires, if there is a difference between the speeds etc?
- Whats a good lens to start out with? Will be shooting street scenes and landscapes.
Do we have RFF members in China here? I'm heading up to Shanghai for a holiday, which is partly the reason for this attack of GAS ('But but dear, dont you want nice HUGE prints of our trip??') and I am wondering if Kiev 60s may be available over there. China being just a hop and a skip away from Russia and all..
Overall, what do you all think of the Kiev 60. A horrible choice for a newbie to MF? What are my alternative? The Rolleicord looks nice and affordable, and so do the Yashicamats, but they do look a little complicated as compared to the SLR-format Kiev. As you can tell, I am a camera whore..
Any tips or advice warmly welcomed.
Thanks!
the GAS bug has struck again.
I've been on the bay over the last few days, finger just poised over the 'Bid Now' button..
What do you folks think about the Kiev 60 medium format SLR-type cameras?
I know that a number of them left the factory as pristine paper-weights, but there are some that actually work.
Questions - to those who have played with one
- When advancing the film wind lever, is it known to be a little on the gritty side? In terms of feeling I mean. I've played with one sample and that struck me as being odd. Or is that representative of the type.
- How does one tell if one has a good functioning example. If the shutter fires, if there is a difference between the speeds etc?
- Whats a good lens to start out with? Will be shooting street scenes and landscapes.
Do we have RFF members in China here? I'm heading up to Shanghai for a holiday, which is partly the reason for this attack of GAS ('But but dear, dont you want nice HUGE prints of our trip??') and I am wondering if Kiev 60s may be available over there. China being just a hop and a skip away from Russia and all..
Overall, what do you all think of the Kiev 60. A horrible choice for a newbie to MF? What are my alternative? The Rolleicord looks nice and affordable, and so do the Yashicamats, but they do look a little complicated as compared to the SLR-format Kiev. As you can tell, I am a camera whore..
Any tips or advice warmly welcomed.
Thanks!
Nickfed
Well-known
I understand playing Kiev roll film SLR (I won't grace it with the term MF) can be a pretty dangerous game. Even if they are cheap, they still don't give them away. If you want to play the game, there is a firm in Atlanta that specialises in them and exercise their own quality control. I'm sure you will be able to google them.
6x6 is a dumb format, a stupid idea from Franke & Heidecke to go in their stupid camera . It never was a good idea and, with modern film and lenses, it's an even worse one now. However, I understand there is a 6x4.5 back for the Kiev 88. That makes more sense. At least you won't be wasting so much film and chemicals.
the stir for the day.......
6x6 is a dumb format, a stupid idea from Franke & Heidecke to go in their stupid camera . It never was a good idea and, with modern film and lenses, it's an even worse one now. However, I understand there is a 6x4.5 back for the Kiev 88. That makes more sense. At least you won't be wasting so much film and chemicals.
the stir for the day.......
Moriarty
Newbie
Hi, you are welcome to China! I live in Shenzhen.
Sorry, I have no tips on using a Kiev 60, because I haven't owned one.
Kiev 60 is very much available in China if you know where to find them.
A brand new (with case and booklet) costs around 1400~1600 yuan and a 2nd hand one costs around
800~1200.
If you read Chinese, the sites below may be useful.
http://www.sy916.net
http://www.chinesecamera.net/
Sorry, I have no tips on using a Kiev 60, because I haven't owned one.
Kiev 60 is very much available in China if you know where to find them.
A brand new (with case and booklet) costs around 1400~1600 yuan and a 2nd hand one costs around
800~1200.
If you read Chinese, the sites below may be useful.
http://www.sy916.net
http://www.chinesecamera.net/
V
varjag
Guest
The one I played with had smooth lever advance action.
A known issue with Kiev 6/60 is spacing between exposures on film. I would consider a sample that's known to perform okay or is from a reputable seller. I wouldn't buy it from online auction unless it's dirt cheap.
Also, if you are about to shoot street, perhaps consider a TLR. It may be not apparent from a photo, but in real life Kiev-60 looks like a monster truck in your hands.
A known issue with Kiev 6/60 is spacing between exposures on film. I would consider a sample that's known to perform okay or is from a reputable seller. I wouldn't buy it from online auction unless it's dirt cheap.
Also, if you are about to shoot street, perhaps consider a TLR. It may be not apparent from a photo, but in real life Kiev-60 looks like a monster truck in your hands.
Zorki fan
Zorki Fan
Hi,
thanks for all the tips.
Eugene, agree, the Kiev 60 is a huge and heavy camera. I've handled 3 here in Singapore, all of which seemed a little shakey in terms of fit and finish. The last one I handled and can recall had a gritty feel when advancing the film, which was why I sought advice in this group.
I am considering a TLR. The Rolleicord III or IV really look nice, but they look like they have a steeper learning curve than the Kiev.
Shall find out more.
Thanks!
thanks for all the tips.
Eugene, agree, the Kiev 60 is a huge and heavy camera. I've handled 3 here in Singapore, all of which seemed a little shakey in terms of fit and finish. The last one I handled and can recall had a gritty feel when advancing the film, which was why I sought advice in this group.
I am considering a TLR. The Rolleicord III or IV really look nice, but they look like they have a steeper learning curve than the Kiev.
Shall find out more.
Thanks!
mac_wt
Cameras are like bunnies
I bought my Kiev 60 with mirror lock-up from grizzly33bear on ebay. They claim to have tested the camera with Ilford film. I'll have my first film back on wednesday, then I'll know if the spacing is OK.
There seem to be many theories on the causes of this film spacing problem. Some claim that it's because FSU-film has thicker backing paper, others blame the way you advance the film (do it in 1 smooth motion, dont let the film-advance snap back), most simply blame a lack of quality control in the factory (sounds like a simplistic explanation to me).
Film-advance on my Kiev-60 is smooth, not gritty. The camera is large and heavy, certainly not stealth when you use the prism finder. I like the finish, everything looks OK and fits well (but I never handed a Hasselblad or other SLR MF-camera).
I have the standard 80mm lens on it now, but I have a 120mm CZJ Biometar, a 250mm Jupiter-36 (a surprise win on ebay) and a 45mm Mir-26 heading my way, so soon I will be able to say something about these lenses.
Kiev-80 or -88 seem to be even more unreliable and the only one I would consider buying is the Kiev-88cm that incorporates most of the third-party improvements. But these are a bit to expensive for me right now.
Wim
There seem to be many theories on the causes of this film spacing problem. Some claim that it's because FSU-film has thicker backing paper, others blame the way you advance the film (do it in 1 smooth motion, dont let the film-advance snap back), most simply blame a lack of quality control in the factory (sounds like a simplistic explanation to me).
Film-advance on my Kiev-60 is smooth, not gritty. The camera is large and heavy, certainly not stealth when you use the prism finder. I like the finish, everything looks OK and fits well (but I never handed a Hasselblad or other SLR MF-camera).
I have the standard 80mm lens on it now, but I have a 120mm CZJ Biometar, a 250mm Jupiter-36 (a surprise win on ebay) and a 45mm Mir-26 heading my way, so soon I will be able to say something about these lenses.
Kiev-80 or -88 seem to be even more unreliable and the only one I would consider buying is the Kiev-88cm that incorporates most of the third-party improvements. But these are a bit to expensive for me right now.
Wim
Will
Well-known
I have a P6 with the 80mm Biometar M.C. & the 180mm Sonnar M.C. (Traded in a 300mm Sonnar & a 50 Flektogon). They are very nice for the price but the 180 is heavy.
Anything brandnew Kiev in China are raw stocks, with no pre-adjustment, so good luck.
http://www.beijinglt.com/
Get an adjusted Kiev 60 on the net or get a new-ish Penatcon if you don't need MLU (which you do actually need for a MF).
Anything brandnew Kiev in China are raw stocks, with no pre-adjustment, so good luck.
http://www.beijinglt.com/
Get an adjusted Kiev 60 on the net or get a new-ish Penatcon if you don't need MLU (which you do actually need for a MF).
R
Richard Black
Guest
Zorki Fan,
I have a Pentacon 6tl and love it. It is lighter than the Kiev and much smoother, particularly since Rolf-Dieter worked on it. There is multiple options for it, brighter focusing screens and viewfinders. It is worth a look. However, I think those that advised you to look at tlrs are correct. I have a Rolleiflex and if I were to embark on a long journey, it is one of two mf cameras I would take, the other being a Fuji GS 645 Professional, a folding camera. As to format, I have engaged in debates on the 6x6 v 6x4.5 enough to say it is a personal choice and one that expressed one's own artistic view point. It is not for everyone but I am glad it is available because it give me a choice which I use frequently full frame.
I have a Pentacon 6tl and love it. It is lighter than the Kiev and much smoother, particularly since Rolf-Dieter worked on it. There is multiple options for it, brighter focusing screens and viewfinders. It is worth a look. However, I think those that advised you to look at tlrs are correct. I have a Rolleiflex and if I were to embark on a long journey, it is one of two mf cameras I would take, the other being a Fuji GS 645 Professional, a folding camera. As to format, I have engaged in debates on the 6x6 v 6x4.5 enough to say it is a personal choice and one that expressed one's own artistic view point. It is not for everyone but I am glad it is available because it give me a choice which I use frequently full frame.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I've looked at them pretty closely in the past. I eventually decided on something else (an Iskra), but did come to the conclusion that http://araxfoto.com/ was the only place I'd consider getting one from. I'd go with a 6x6 MLU model from them; but then I like shooting to the square.
Ebay or even from http://www.kievcamera.com seems to be much more of a crap shoot.
Good luck with what you decide.
William
Ebay or even from http://www.kievcamera.com seems to be much more of a crap shoot.
Good luck with what you decide.
William
phototone
Well-known
I have an Arax version as well as a standard Kiev 60 purchased from KievCamera in the USA. They are quite impressive in size and heft, and the lenses are quite good and very inexpensive when compared to other 6x6 SLR lenses. The film spacing issues are overblown, and usually caused by people not getting the film tightly started on the takeup spool. It has to be tight.
The Kiev 60 is known to have a "weak" film advance mechanism and it has to be operated correctly to give good results. It is not difficult, though. I have three working bodies, and many lenses, and I have shot quite a number of very nice photos, both in b/w and in color transparency format, although I haven't posted them here because they are not RFDR. The Kiev 60, and the Kiev 88cm, Pentacon/Pratica and the Exacta 66 all share the same lens mount, so the variety of lenses is vast. There are many reasonably priced Zeiss design optics available made in former East Germany that are just about as good as lenses get.
Actually, I love my Kiev equipment.
The Kiev 60 is known to have a "weak" film advance mechanism and it has to be operated correctly to give good results. It is not difficult, though. I have three working bodies, and many lenses, and I have shot quite a number of very nice photos, both in b/w and in color transparency format, although I haven't posted them here because they are not RFDR. The Kiev 60, and the Kiev 88cm, Pentacon/Pratica and the Exacta 66 all share the same lens mount, so the variety of lenses is vast. There are many reasonably priced Zeiss design optics available made in former East Germany that are just about as good as lenses get.
Actually, I love my Kiev equipment.
P
pshinkaw
Guest
I've got one. It takes very nice photos. But I had to replace the lens with another after the auto-diaphragm got stuck. One of these days I'll fix the first lens. It's a big heavy guy and I don't use it much because of that. Also, I'm a little afraid of getting too far from home with it as an only camera and having it fail. I particularly like the bright viewfinder.
If you are just starting out with medium format, I suggest you try a TLR first. They tend to be much more reliable.
-Paul
If you are just starting out with medium format, I suggest you try a TLR first. They tend to be much more reliable.
-Paul
mac_wt
Cameras are like bunnies
A quick follow-up on my earlier post. It works. I got my first roll from my Kiev-60 back today. Filmspacing was even (about 6 mm between frames), but I managed to get only 11,5 frames out of my roll (that's still 1,5 frames more than I ever got out of my Flexaret TLR). Probably due to to my film loading skills. Lens is Volna-3 2,8/80. These shots where handheld at 1/60 or 1/30 at f 2,8. I used the MLU feature on some shots (this actually means I was shooting blind, something I'm not used to anymore, since I started using rangefinders).
Since finishing that first roll, I managed to buy some batteries for the TTL prism. I tested it against my VC-meter and my Canon Eos 300 and it was 1 stop out. This was very easy to adjust.
Wim
Since finishing that first roll, I managed to buy some batteries for the TTL prism. I tested it against my VC-meter and my Canon Eos 300 and it was 1 stop out. This was very easy to adjust.
Wim
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I have an Arax Kiev 60 and am very happy with it. I spent about a year reading everything I could find about these cameras and settled on Arax as the best choice.
I slpurged and got black finish and custom leather.
The film advance is not gritty and shouldn't be. The focus screen on the Arax is fairly bright and not the standard Kiev screen.
The camera is BIG and HEAVY and the MLU option is a useful feature.
I own 30,45,80,250,and 500 mm lenses for this camera. I now would make slightly different choices for the lenses.
Frankly, the 30mm Arsat is the reason I wanted this camera. And it's pretty amazing.
180 degree field of view on 6x6, and just about the best value for $ there is in MF wideangle lenses.
The 45mm Mir (my example anyway) is a dog. I would've done better with a 65mm Mir(seems to be better lens to lens) or a 45mm Flektagon.
The 80mm/f2.8 "standard" lens is very good. Not great, but good enough for my hobby needs.
The 250 Telear is small, f5.6 so not especially fast, fairly sharp and I use it more than I thought I would.
The 500mm mirror lens is also decent but I don't use it as much as I thought I would.
The meter prism is close enough for print film, I don't shoot slides so I can't speak to that issue.
The TLR cameras you mentioned are NOT that tough to learn. Probably an easier way into MF--fewer choices to make.
Lately, if I'm just going out to shoot with out something specific in mind, I grab my Seagull if I want 6x6. I use the Arax where I have a specfic project in mind.
Here is ARAX .
If you decide to get a Kiev 60, I strongly reccomend them. Mr Vartanyan is very good to deal with--I pestered him for about six months with various questions before I spent any money and he was unfailingly helpful and polite.
Yes I am a fan of both the camera and the company!
Rob
I slpurged and got black finish and custom leather.
The film advance is not gritty and shouldn't be. The focus screen on the Arax is fairly bright and not the standard Kiev screen.
The camera is BIG and HEAVY and the MLU option is a useful feature.
I own 30,45,80,250,and 500 mm lenses for this camera. I now would make slightly different choices for the lenses.
Frankly, the 30mm Arsat is the reason I wanted this camera. And it's pretty amazing.
180 degree field of view on 6x6, and just about the best value for $ there is in MF wideangle lenses.
The 45mm Mir (my example anyway) is a dog. I would've done better with a 65mm Mir(seems to be better lens to lens) or a 45mm Flektagon.
The 80mm/f2.8 "standard" lens is very good. Not great, but good enough for my hobby needs.
The 250 Telear is small, f5.6 so not especially fast, fairly sharp and I use it more than I thought I would.
The 500mm mirror lens is also decent but I don't use it as much as I thought I would.
The meter prism is close enough for print film, I don't shoot slides so I can't speak to that issue.
The TLR cameras you mentioned are NOT that tough to learn. Probably an easier way into MF--fewer choices to make.
Lately, if I'm just going out to shoot with out something specific in mind, I grab my Seagull if I want 6x6. I use the Arax where I have a specfic project in mind.
Here is ARAX .
If you decide to get a Kiev 60, I strongly reccomend them. Mr Vartanyan is very good to deal with--I pestered him for about six months with various questions before I spent any money and he was unfailingly helpful and polite.
Yes I am a fan of both the camera and the company!
Rob
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