Avotius
Some guy
I had a neat opportunity to use three great cameras at the same time, the Panasonic LX3, the Canon G10 and the Panasonic G1. All are good cameras in their little parts, for instance the LX3 is pretty compact and not too bad with that wide fast lens but I did not like the lack of zoom and the out of control distortion that lens has. The G10 was great and very easy to use but sucked at higher ISO's, much worse then my benchmark small camera the Ricoh GRD. The G1 was a surprise and once I can afford it I will buy one, the image quality surpasses the other two without any doubt but you pay for it thats for sure but that image quality is great and it such a smart little machine. The only thing that will keep me from buying a G1 is if the Olympus offering is that much better but its going to have to be pretty darn good.
GeneW
Veteran
I got an LX3 for Christmas and have had a lot of fun with it. I also use a G9. I use the LX3 almost exclusively in 24mm equiv and 16:9 aspect ratio. The entire camera is cheaper than a good quality WA lens for my D300.
Everything with a digicam is relative. The IQ is very good, relative to the sensor size. It's not DSLR quality, but it's the kind of cam that's easy to have with you most of the time. Small size and light weight are attributes I enjoy in a camera.
Although the BW modes seem decent, I don't use them. I shoot everything in colour and convert to B&W in Photoshop with the Silver Efex Pro plugin.
Gene
Everything with a digicam is relative. The IQ is very good, relative to the sensor size. It's not DSLR quality, but it's the kind of cam that's easy to have with you most of the time. Small size and light weight are attributes I enjoy in a camera.
Although the BW modes seem decent, I don't use them. I shoot everything in colour and convert to B&W in Photoshop with the Silver Efex Pro plugin.
Gene
nightfly
Well-known
Weren't you planning on posting a comparative review of these? I remember you posting about this but wasn't sure if I missed it or what. I always enjoy your reviews and photos.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
I've had the Canon G9 and the LX3. The image files from the LX3 are fine (for a small-sensor camera). However the ergonomics drove me nuts! The G9/G10 grips are much, much easier to hold (bigger). And the Canons have a viewfinder... sort of (kinda tunnel-like, but useable). As much as I'd like to have a teensy, high image quality digicam to carry around all the time, I just can't get used to the way you have to use both hands to hold them because there's literally no grip to hold onto. And I truly hate composing with the LCD screen.
I'm waiting for the 4/3 folks to come out with a fast fixed-lens little camera with a viewfinder. Sort of a G10, but with the APS-C sensor.
I'm waiting for the 4/3 folks to come out with a fast fixed-lens little camera with a viewfinder. Sort of a G10, but with the APS-C sensor.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I'm in the (rather long) process of writing a short comparison (i.e. I've been lazy about getting around to it) between the LX3 and the Ricoh GRD II.
I really love the LX3 for some things:
1) image quality at ISO800 (excellent)
2) FAST good quality wide lens (Leica f2.0 @ 24mm)
3) ability to shoot HD 16:9 video
4) 16:9, 3:2, and 4:3 formats
I really really really really despise the camera for two big things:
1) Ergonomics
2) Form factor
That, to me, is the big downfall of an otherwise great camera.
Why do I hate the ergonomics?
The ability, to me, to use a P&S (even if it's a "high end" P&S) is to be able to use it quickly, with one hand, and with little effort. I can do that with the GRD II. I can operate the whole camera, options and all, while holding it in one hand.
Try doing a macro with the LX3 in one hand.
Try changing the format from 16:9 to 4:3 or to 3:2 with one hand.
It can't be done.
Changing modes is cramping on the thumb (at least my thumb) on the LX3.
Not so with the GRD II.
Why do I despise the form factor - well, mainly because I can't seem to feel "good" about putting in my pocket - it's just less pocketable than the GRD II.
So, the LX3 wins on the points I love about it.
It loses on the points I hate about it.
In the end, I don't think the stuff I love about it will make the camera stay in my stable - mainly because, if I don't have fun operating the camera (or can't enjoy operating it easily) I'm not going to use the camera - and to be honest, the LX3 has sat quietly since I got back from Australia in November....
Cheers,
Dave
Here's an image (sorry for the large size - I blame Flickr ) from the LX3 @ ISO 800 B&W straight from the camera (Natural B&W)
I really love the LX3 for some things:
1) image quality at ISO800 (excellent)
2) FAST good quality wide lens (Leica f2.0 @ 24mm)
3) ability to shoot HD 16:9 video
4) 16:9, 3:2, and 4:3 formats
I really really really really despise the camera for two big things:
1) Ergonomics
2) Form factor
That, to me, is the big downfall of an otherwise great camera.
Why do I hate the ergonomics?
The ability, to me, to use a P&S (even if it's a "high end" P&S) is to be able to use it quickly, with one hand, and with little effort. I can do that with the GRD II. I can operate the whole camera, options and all, while holding it in one hand.
Try doing a macro with the LX3 in one hand.
Try changing the format from 16:9 to 4:3 or to 3:2 with one hand.
It can't be done.
Changing modes is cramping on the thumb (at least my thumb) on the LX3.
Not so with the GRD II.
Why do I despise the form factor - well, mainly because I can't seem to feel "good" about putting in my pocket - it's just less pocketable than the GRD II.
So, the LX3 wins on the points I love about it.
It loses on the points I hate about it.
In the end, I don't think the stuff I love about it will make the camera stay in my stable - mainly because, if I don't have fun operating the camera (or can't enjoy operating it easily) I'm not going to use the camera - and to be honest, the LX3 has sat quietly since I got back from Australia in November....
Cheers,
Dave
Here's an image (sorry for the large size - I blame Flickr
) from the LX3 @ ISO 800 B&W straight from the camera (Natural B&W)
boy_lah
Discovering RF
The DP1 sensor is a crop dslr size...so the quality is comparable (and in my mind superior in some ways) to those. GRD/G10/LX3 etc are all 'compact' sensors which are no where as nice as a larger sensor.
Add to that, the DP1's sensor is foveon which has a different look/benefit/quirk to normal bayen sensors - which makes it interesting for me. Your milage may differ.
Note - the 2nd shot is pushed to iso1600. I love how i can shoot up to 3200 (in BW) using the DP1.
ISO1600:
Add to that, the DP1's sensor is foveon which has a different look/benefit/quirk to normal bayen sensors - which makes it interesting for me. Your milage may differ.
Note - the 2nd shot is pushed to iso1600. I love how i can shoot up to 3200 (in BW) using the DP1.
ISO1600:
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JohnM
Well-known
I have a bad habit of buying too many camera bags and too many compact digital cameras. I keep hoping that they're going to invent the small digital that answers all of my prayers. As a result, I've had some pretty good cameras (Canon G's), some okay cameras (DP1) and some pure disappointments (LX1, anything Nikon.)
The LX3 is far and away my favorite. The IQ and the f2.0, 24mm can't be beat.
I agree with some of the ergonomic complaints above, although I don't quite find them exclusive to the LX3. If you try to do anything one-handed with these small cameras, you will drop it - your fingers have to contort in too many strange ways if you want to make any changes one-handed.
The separate lens cap is odd - use the cap string or you'll lose it. The camera is quite small, but the space needed for the lens means that it is not flush on the front and thus it's not as pocketable as some compacts.
On the flip side, I like that it does have some switches that replace buttons or menu-driven features. It has an on-off switch and not a button that for some reason I like. When you do go into the menu, it is easy to navigate - I have never had the need to crack open the user manual.
The image quality is startling compared to some others. The fast lens, plus stabilization , plus very usable high ISOs make it very, very capable little camera.
The LX3 is far and away my favorite. The IQ and the f2.0, 24mm can't be beat.
I agree with some of the ergonomic complaints above, although I don't quite find them exclusive to the LX3. If you try to do anything one-handed with these small cameras, you will drop it - your fingers have to contort in too many strange ways if you want to make any changes one-handed.
The separate lens cap is odd - use the cap string or you'll lose it. The camera is quite small, but the space needed for the lens means that it is not flush on the front and thus it's not as pocketable as some compacts.
On the flip side, I like that it does have some switches that replace buttons or menu-driven features. It has an on-off switch and not a button that for some reason I like. When you do go into the menu, it is easy to navigate - I have never had the need to crack open the user manual.
The image quality is startling compared to some others. The fast lens, plus stabilization , plus very usable high ISOs make it very, very capable little camera.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Maybe for your hands John, but for my "dainty"
hands that's not the case and hence why I enjoy the GRD II so much - I don't/can't drop the camera using my right hand - if I were left handed, well, I'd be screwed I seriously can control the entire camera with my one hand (save for flash photography - but who uses flash right?
) and I won't need to cramp or contort as you state. Of course, everyone's hands are different so YMMV.I agree with the lens cap (that thing is an oddity) on the LX3.
I also want to note that the strap holders on the camera bug me - I'd prefer the ability to have a wrist strap rather than having two big (in comparison to the camera) strap holders.
Cheers,
Dave
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
The leather half-case makes it much, much easier to grip. I generally don't like those cases, but this one is very useful.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I just went for the GRD II over the LX3- partly for the ergonomics, partly for the lens. I hardly ever shoot my D-Lux3 at anything but wide angle, so the LX3 zoom doesn't have much appeal. The Ricoh lens also seems to have less distortion and fall-off from what I've seen.
The grip is bigger on the GRD, something my hand will appreciate, and it's good to hear one-handed operation is quite possible with it- the D-Lux3 is nearly impossible on that score.
The grip is bigger on the GRD, something my hand will appreciate, and it's good to hear one-handed operation is quite possible with it- the D-Lux3 is nearly impossible on that score.
amateriat
We're all light!
It's a vexing thing.
Among the things I like about the Olympus 8080:
- Fast, low-distortion lens, with 28mm-equivalnent wide focal length (no SW correction required).
- Reasonably-good EVF (a little dodgy in very dim light, though).
- Swiveling LCD.
- GREAT on-camera flash.
- Hot shoe, if that isn't quite enough flash for you.
- Comfy one-hand operation, possibly the best of any digicam I've tried.
- I suppose that 2/3" sensor size means something in terms of overall quality.
- My current ACR/CS2 setup supports RAW output from this camera.
As for the things I don't like:
- ISO 400 ceiling. And that ceiling is fair-to-middling at best.
- That damned lens hood.
- Buffer is rather slow when shooting RAW in single-shot mode.
- Depending on mode, shutter lag can be an issue.
- Not pocketable. I don't care how big your pockets are.
Obviously, I'd give up some stuff with the LX3, but gain a good deal in other ways, and have relative ease of portability. Again, this doesn't have to be the be-all, end-all camera for me (no digital camera can pull that off for me at the moment...believe me, I've looked), but it has to hit a few specific targets for me as my singular digicam, because once it's here, the others disappear. Speaking of disappearing, the LX3 can disappear into a nook or cranny of my Domke F803 along with my pair of Hexars and three lenses...can't do that with the Olympus. That right there is a make-or-break situation.
The other weekend, I was at a brunch gathering for an organization, and I brought only the Casio for some quick snaps. Really didn't like working with flash, so I punched in the "high sensitivity" Best Shot option. Big mistale. The little Casio can hit I.E. 1600, but it ain't pretty by any account. Fuji Press 800 pushed a stop would've aced this, but I didn't have any on hand, so...
Like I said, it's a vexing thing. I don't need this to be a do-everything camera, just a do-a-few-more-things-and-still-fit-my-jacket-pocket camera. Worse come to worst, I might be able to pick up a used (and reliable) 8080 for myself cheap. But it would be nice to have something smaller, and the LX3, so far, seems the chief candidate.
- Barrett
Among the things I like about the Olympus 8080:
- Fast, low-distortion lens, with 28mm-equivalnent wide focal length (no SW correction required).
- Reasonably-good EVF (a little dodgy in very dim light, though).
- Swiveling LCD.
- GREAT on-camera flash.
- Hot shoe, if that isn't quite enough flash for you.
- Comfy one-hand operation, possibly the best of any digicam I've tried.
- I suppose that 2/3" sensor size means something in terms of overall quality.
- My current ACR/CS2 setup supports RAW output from this camera.
As for the things I don't like:
- ISO 400 ceiling. And that ceiling is fair-to-middling at best.
- That damned lens hood.
- Buffer is rather slow when shooting RAW in single-shot mode.
- Depending on mode, shutter lag can be an issue.
- Not pocketable. I don't care how big your pockets are.
Obviously, I'd give up some stuff with the LX3, but gain a good deal in other ways, and have relative ease of portability. Again, this doesn't have to be the be-all, end-all camera for me (no digital camera can pull that off for me at the moment...believe me, I've looked), but it has to hit a few specific targets for me as my singular digicam, because once it's here, the others disappear. Speaking of disappearing, the LX3 can disappear into a nook or cranny of my Domke F803 along with my pair of Hexars and three lenses...can't do that with the Olympus. That right there is a make-or-break situation.
The other weekend, I was at a brunch gathering for an organization, and I brought only the Casio for some quick snaps. Really didn't like working with flash, so I punched in the "high sensitivity" Best Shot option. Big mistale. The little Casio can hit I.E. 1600, but it ain't pretty by any account. Fuji Press 800 pushed a stop would've aced this, but I didn't have any on hand, so...
Like I said, it's a vexing thing. I don't need this to be a do-everything camera, just a do-a-few-more-things-and-still-fit-my-jacket-pocket camera. Worse come to worst, I might be able to pick up a used (and reliable) 8080 for myself cheap. But it would be nice to have something smaller, and the LX3, so far, seems the chief candidate.
- Barrett
amateriat
We're all light!
Someone within my general orbit remembered my birthday (today), and inquired about what I'd like. I gave a half-maniacal laugh and said, Nope, you really don't want to know...
Then again, as this one camera would replace "my" two other digitals, I might sleep on this a little. Less is more, and all that.
- Barrett
Then again, as this one camera would replace "my" two other digitals, I might sleep on this a little. Less is more, and all that.
- Barrett
trix
Established
Come on Barrett, you have made you decision already, don´t you ? So just do it !
)
Happy Birthday !
)Happy Birthday !
jky
Well-known
...Happy BirthdayI...
Re lx3: ergonomics can improve, but I'm getting used to it. Fast 24mm + o.i.s. + useable up to 400 (800 if needed) = why I didn't return it to B&H. Lens cap bites, but I've taped velcro on it so it just sticks to the side of the body when the camera is in use. Neck strap? Personally I find this useless & have been using my old C@non wrist strap with the camera.
It's a fine camera for what it is (a p&s)...
My main gripe with it as I've mentioned here before is its inability to keep the manual focus setting in the custom functions. It obviously wasn't a deal breaker for me though as I'm still very much enjoying this thing.
Re lx3: ergonomics can improve, but I'm getting used to it. Fast 24mm + o.i.s. + useable up to 400 (800 if needed) = why I didn't return it to B&H. Lens cap bites, but I've taped velcro on it so it just sticks to the side of the body when the camera is in use. Neck strap? Personally I find this useless & have been using my old C@non wrist strap with the camera.
It's a fine camera for what it is (a p&s)...
My main gripe with it as I've mentioned here before is its inability to keep the manual focus setting in the custom functions. It obviously wasn't a deal breaker for me though as I'm still very much enjoying this thing.
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
it certainly seems like something that could be resolved with a firmware upgrade. Does Panasonic have a feedback process; have you checked their web site or sent an email?
.
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
I did send request but none answered. I think most
people don't use manual focus or hyperfocal distance. So,
maybe it's a select few that do and marketing won't
serve the few. They lost me and a few I know of.
The DP1 is no issue with this...luckilly enough.
shooter
people don't use manual focus or hyperfocal distance. So,
maybe it's a select few that do and marketing won't
serve the few. They lost me and a few I know of.
The DP1 is no issue with this...luckilly enough.
shooter
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
New firmware due out next week...maybe it'll be in there? I hope so. I also find that pretty irritating.
http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/LX3/index.html
http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/LX3/index.html
mackigator
Well-known
Here are my loosely linked thoughts.
I'm shooting with the LX3 as my regular pocket digi now. I've sold my LX1 and I'm going to sell my K10D setup as well (msg me if you're looking for that one) and go LX3 for digi and RF's for film for a while.
I think the barrel distortion issue is overblown, as for some shots it's as much a feature as a flaw. It's a tiny, tiny and good lens. As part of the design, they compromised and used the software to correct for barrel distortion. It's a fine trade off and, if you shoot RAW + jpg, you have the benefit of both views. I process with ACDSee Pro and it handles the RAW files just fine, I can correct them if I want to. Here's a recent shot that looked better with the distortion than without: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/3168786940/
The LX3 has flaws, it is fiddly to hold, and it needs a stepped zoom. Hate the way the dial gets bumped when I put it in my pocket. I miss the instant on of my Olympus XA more than all other flaws, and that's been true of all small digis for a long time. But it's the best thing in this form factor for me and it's a well refined design after 3 versions of this camera. I treat the DP1 as a different bird altogether and it does produce great images. The G9/G10: just too big for me. I want interchangeable lenses and really low noise by the time I carry something that size or bigger. Each time I've picked it (G10) up I've thought: I'd rather carry the Minolta CLE.
The LX3 is not as low noise as some claim. At ISO 400 the in-camera noise reduction is really amazing, judged by comparing the RAW files. It is usable at ISO 400, but it's no comparison to big chip cameras. At ISO 80-100 it is fantastic, as were its predecessors.
The hotshoe is a wonderful addition. The Hexar RF flash plus another unit with an optical trigger and the world is your oyster. Or bump the ISO to 400 and anchor your hand on something and get some natural light love.
Some other samples:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=LX3&w=95742421%40N00&ss=2&ct=6&s=rec
I process most of my BW from RAW even if the jpg gets pretty close. You can do better than the dynamic BW mode this way, but if you're in a hurry the dynamic black and white mode is nice.
I like the way all three of these Pany LX's "smear" the motion parts of an image when shooting a subject that moves too fast for a given shutter speed. Samples of that: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/3093757209/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/2659739563/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/2679544299/
Cheers,
Clark
I'm shooting with the LX3 as my regular pocket digi now. I've sold my LX1 and I'm going to sell my K10D setup as well (msg me if you're looking for that one) and go LX3 for digi and RF's for film for a while.
I think the barrel distortion issue is overblown, as for some shots it's as much a feature as a flaw. It's a tiny, tiny and good lens. As part of the design, they compromised and used the software to correct for barrel distortion. It's a fine trade off and, if you shoot RAW + jpg, you have the benefit of both views. I process with ACDSee Pro and it handles the RAW files just fine, I can correct them if I want to. Here's a recent shot that looked better with the distortion than without: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/3168786940/
The LX3 has flaws, it is fiddly to hold, and it needs a stepped zoom. Hate the way the dial gets bumped when I put it in my pocket. I miss the instant on of my Olympus XA more than all other flaws, and that's been true of all small digis for a long time. But it's the best thing in this form factor for me and it's a well refined design after 3 versions of this camera. I treat the DP1 as a different bird altogether and it does produce great images. The G9/G10: just too big for me. I want interchangeable lenses and really low noise by the time I carry something that size or bigger. Each time I've picked it (G10) up I've thought: I'd rather carry the Minolta CLE.
The LX3 is not as low noise as some claim. At ISO 400 the in-camera noise reduction is really amazing, judged by comparing the RAW files. It is usable at ISO 400, but it's no comparison to big chip cameras. At ISO 80-100 it is fantastic, as were its predecessors.
The hotshoe is a wonderful addition. The Hexar RF flash plus another unit with an optical trigger and the world is your oyster. Or bump the ISO to 400 and anchor your hand on something and get some natural light love.
Some other samples:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=LX3&w=95742421%40N00&ss=2&ct=6&s=rec
I process most of my BW from RAW even if the jpg gets pretty close. You can do better than the dynamic BW mode this way, but if you're in a hurry the dynamic black and white mode is nice.
I like the way all three of these Pany LX's "smear" the motion parts of an image when shooting a subject that moves too fast for a given shutter speed. Samples of that: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/3093757209/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/2659739563/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/2679544299/
Cheers,
Clark
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