Some Probably Silly M9 Questions

[adamjbonn]

Hi all,

Some Probably Silly M9 Questions.

Searching is all well and good, but so much info... easier to ask and accept any ire that might generate 😀

All questions relate to the M9

SD Cards

Doesn't want to talk to my Sandisk 32gb UHS-I 95 mps cards. Occasionally manages a couple of shots, then gives 'no card' error msg

Works fine with my Sandisk 16gb UHS-i 95 mb/s cards and (surprisingly) my Sandisk 16gb UHS-ii 280 mb/s cards

Is 32gb just not a supported thing with the M9

Just curious - 16gb is plenty

But my old spec cards are long gone, and I've had to make do with the modern stuff kicking around my camera draw!

In-Camera SD Card Formatting

Full format takes a very, very long time.

Normal?

Necessary?

Can I just do a quick format?

If I format on a PC, should I use exFAT or FAT32?

There's a ton of stuff on the 'net about exFAT, but much of it seems aimed at the M240


Strap Lugs

I notice these have no internal bushes (hardened inserts) - the early Fuji X cameras also had no bushes, and wore out very quickly

Is this a likely occurrence with the M9?

Creating some lug bushes shouldn't be beyond my engineering capacity... Worth doing? Anyone sell any?

I want to use triangular* strap clips - Bad idea? Stick to round split rings? (I'm not using the nylon Leica strap)

(*specifically ones from a Pentax K1000, which was my Dad's camera, yes silly emotive stuff)


ISO

Far better than I was lead to believe (I had very low expectations 😀)

I've not been taking the camera over ISO 640 under exposing if the SS is too slow by raising SS <2 stops, then pushing <2 stops in post and using NR to taste.

This is quite clean most of the time...

Am I on the correct path with this MO or is there a better way?

Screen Protector

Is this needed? LCD cover is Sapphire. I know of sapphire from watch crystals (hard to scratch, easy to shatter!) Do other M9P users use a screen protector

Thanks in advance

I'm rather green to the nuances of digital Leica ownership

I think that's all my questions.... I bet I think of another the moment I hit 'post' 😀

 

[rfaspen]

OK, I'll go first:

I too have a 32GB SD card (don't know its particulars, but current and modern). It works fine in my M9. Your issues are probably some other parameter gone wonky?

Some people swear you must format your SD card in the camera. I say bs. I have always formatted my cards in/on the computer with no issues at all. A complete format will take a long time...for a 32GB card, it can take at least 10 times longer than a quick format, possibly much longer. So, I don't think you're experiencing anything weird. I tend to quick format my cards.

For M9, the file system type should be FAT32. Standard for quite a while now.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with strap lug bushings. All I know is none of my Leica strap lugs have yet to wear out. But (BUT) I tend to attach my straps with a nylon loop system. If you've ever seen the OP/Tech straps and the way they attach to the strap lug, you'll know what I have. The little nylon loop attachment terminates in a QR buckle and my strap attaches to that. Its just my system, and others would probably hate it. But, I can switch straps among my cameras in seconds, and I can remove straps from cameras to store more compactly in bags, etc. And, the nylon loop system does not scratch and mar my cameras. Only negative about my system is the unlikely, but possible release of a QR buckle while the camera is being used. I've never had it happen in, um, a lot of years.

My M9 can give good images above ISO 640. All depends on the lighting, and the subject, and my "vision". If you're a longtime film user, the ISO performance of the M9 is a non-issue. If you're coming from a recent capable DSLR or other digital system, you'll be very aware of the ISO "limitation" of the M9. This is life.

If you have the M9P with sapphire screen cover, and you're not a hard user of your camera (think wartime photojournalist), you don't need a cover. My M8 had the sapphire cover and never showed a scratch, even though I used the camera in reasonable situations where it could happen.

The M9 is a great camera in my opinion. It has its detractors, but perhaps those folks haven't actually used one?

Enjoy your camera! Once mine comes back from the camera hospital (sensor replacement) I plan to enjoy mine too.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

M9 is no sapphire, M9P is.

I have 64 GB card from M8 to M-E now. Works and stable. Initially, I had smaller card which I purchased same day with new M-E in 2016 and it was acting up. The store I purchased memory card from has business (registered) name - "film is dead".

ISO. It all depends what is your previous background is and on your own limits. I'm Kodak Gold 400 developed in Walmart guy and ISO 12800 as long as exposure meter is in the middle guy. I never use NR, because it is ruining the image. I use M-E at ISO2500 for full screen files and 8x10 prints. Nobody told me what here is something wrong with it on the screen and on the prints. But those are not from photo gear forums.

ISO2500.

So, now you know what is low expectations 😉

 

[Talus]

I can tell you about my SD card experience. I had a number of issues with my M9P when I used different cards. I formatted the card , Sandisk 32gb, in the camera and after that it started working. If I ever inserted a different SD card, it would immediately give me the same error that you've seen. After an in-camera format, it'd start working. So, I had 2 cards that were dedicated solely to my M9P and had no troubles from there on.

As far as screen protectors go, well, I would say put one on. When you get your first scratch you're going to wish that you had put on one, even though the image reviewing is complete garbage on the M9. I only ever looked to see if my composition was good and if the lighting was workable. A screen protector is a very small price to guard your camera.

 

[rfaspen]

Interesting experience Talus. I wonder why your M9 insisted on a camera-formatted card? But, if the solution works....there it is. The OP may want to take note.

I should also say that with all the counterfeit memory cards floating around these days, you could be having a problem that's simply due to a poorly constructed card. A real possibility now.

As for screen protector. I'd be curious to hear from M9P (not M9) owners who have scratched their screens. My M8.2 never showed a scratch and I happen to know I subjected it to a number of scratch-inducing situations. I'm just curious if I got lucky or if the sapphire screen really does work. One thing I know, a screen protector adds to the thickness of the camera. It may not bother most users, but I noticed it and didn't appreciate it. My M9 is now protector-less. And because it is a standard M9, I suppose its vulnerable.

In defense of the screen protector on M9: It did get me used to the extra thickness, so the M240 didn't feel too alien when I picked it up.

 

[nightfly]

I would say no screen protector is fine. Have had mine for many years without one and no issues after a lot of travel etc.

I don't use a strap so can't comment on lugs.

I use a max exposure of 640 and adjust in Lightroom after for shots at night. Works well for me. I don't care for the look of files shot at higher ISO. I read something about this (probably here) where someone had done a bunch of experimentation with this and determined that exposing at 640 and pushing in lightroom produced better looking files than using higher ISO and I've gone with that and it seems to work.

I got the M9 (used) when I started shooting color more than black and white. While I like grain in black and white film, I don't like noise in color digital. It may be fine for web resoltuion but I always think I want to possibility of printing big at some point in the future.

 

[peterm1]

Concerning the strap lugs.

Buy an original Leica strap - the kind they used to sell with late model film M cameras (and may still do). The strap is made of ultra strong woven nylon (or some other synthetic), has a non slip shoulder pad in the middle and has its own metal doo-dads on the ends that unlock and are placed into the strap lugs on the camera. These strap ends have no sharp edges (unlike split rings) so will not mar the camera lugs and they will never come undone accidentally. Mind you you will need your engineering skills to work out how to use the strap - its like none other I have ever seen. 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzuwkR4jvK4

 

[adamjbonn]

Thanks very much, I didn’t think expect so much help so quickly.

I’ll reply to each of you in a moment when I’m not on an ipad!

 

[jszokoli]

Inserts are sometimes used if lugs are brass, I think the M9 lugs are stainless steel.

Joe

 

[adamjbonn]

OK, I'll go first:

I too have a 32GB SD card (don't know its particulars, but current and modern). It works fine in my M9. Your issues are probably some other parameter gone wonky?

Some people swear you must format your SD card in the camera. I say b*****t. I have always formatted my cards in/on the computer with no issues at all. A complete format will take a long time...for a 32GB card, it can take at least 10 times longer than a quick format, possibly much longer. So, I don't think you're experiencing anything weird. I tend to quick format my cards.

For M9, the file system type should be FAT32. Standard for quite a while now.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with strap lug bushings. All I know is none of my Leica strap lugs have yet to wear out. But (BUT) I tend to attach my straps with a nylon loop system. If you've ever seen the OP/Tech straps and the way they attach to the strap lug, you'll know what I have. The little nylon loop attachment terminates in a QR buckle and my strap attaches to that. Its just my system, and others would probably hate it. But, I can switch straps among my cameras in seconds, and I can remove straps from cameras to store more compactly in bags, etc. And, the nylon loop system does not scratch and mar my cameras. Only negative about my system is the unlikely, but possible release of a QR buckle while the camera is being used. I've never had it happen in, um, a lot of years.

My M9 can give good images above ISO 640. All depends on the lighting, and the subject, and my "vision". If you're a longtime film user, the ISO performance of the M9 is a non-issue. If you're coming from a recent capable DSLR or other digital system, you'll be very aware of the ISO "limitation" of the M9. This is life.

If you have the M9P with sapphire screen cover, and you're not a hard user of your camera (think wartime photojournalist), you don't need a cover. My M8 had the sapphire cover and never showed a scratch, even though I used the camera in reasonable situations where it could happen.

The M9 is a great camera in my opinion. It has its detractors, but perhaps those folks haven't actually used one?

Enjoy your camera! Once mine comes back from the camera hospital (sensor replacement) I plan to enjoy mine too.

strap lugs wear when the material used in the strap rings is harder than the material used in the lugs (or possibly the same hardness)

I know exactly the type of strap attachment you're referring to, and nylon shouldn't wear out steel

I've shot a lot of film back in the day... but it was a while back and I tended to buy film based on what I wanted to shoot with it, 100/400 or 3200 T-Max

I do own modern cameras (the m9 is actually a way of getting back to my basics) and FWIW, and I'm not sure if I'm going to explain this very well... with a modern 5 figure ISO invariant sensor camera I find I'm compelled to use the digital push, light up the room 😀 but with the M9 as long as the subject is lit ok I think everything looks grand!

Based on your and subsequent posts I does seem like it should work with a 32 gb card

I'm not too worried about scratching the LCD... but if I manage to shatter it I think I might be glad of a protector to hold all the bits in place...

Sapphire crystal is a funny thing.... the Rolex DSSD for example... you could strap it on a deep sea sub and take it too the Titanic.... but lord help you if you drop it from head height onto a concrete floor and it lands at a funny angle!

 

[adamjbonn]

M9 is no sapphire, M9P is.

I have 64 GB card from M8 to M-E now. Works and stable. Initially, I had smaller card which I purchased same day with new M-E in 2016 and it was acting up. The store I purchased memory card from has business (registered) name - "film is dead".

ISO. It all depends what is your previous background is and on your own limits. I'm Kodak Gold 400 developed in Walmart guy and ISO 12800 as long as exposure meter is in the middle guy. I never use NR, because it is ruining the image. I use M-E at ISO2500 for full screen files and 8x10 prints. Nobody told me what here is something wrong with it on the screen and on the prints. But those are not from photo gear forums.

ISO2500.

So, now you know what is low expectations 😉

I have a 9p so it's sapphire

That's a clean image alright but also a well lit one... high ISO with a light saturated sensor tends to give good results (often better than a lower ISO, clipped signal and pushed in post. I might even be tempted to swap the word 'often' for always)

Really is starting to sound like it should work with a 32 gb card...

 

[adamjbonn]

I can tell you about my SD card experience. I had a number of issues with my M9P when I used different cards. I formatted the card , Sandisk 32gb, in the camera and after that it started working. If I ever inserted a different SD card, it would immediately give me the same error that you've seen. After an in-camera format, it'd start working. So, I had 2 cards that were dedicated solely to my M9P and had no troubles from there on.

As far as screen protectors go, well, I would say put one on. When you get your first scratch you're going to wish that you had put on one, even though the image reviewing is complete garbage on the M9. I only ever looked to see if my composition was good and if the lighting was workable. A screen protector is a very small price to guard your camera.

I suspect you're right, worse case I fit a screen protector is that I never need it, worse case if I don't fit one and do need it is far worse 😀

 

[adamjbonn]

I would say no screen protector is fine. Have had mine for many years without one and no issues after a lot of travel etc.

I don't use a strap so can't comment on lugs.

I use a max exposure of 640 and adjust in Lightroom after for shots at night. Works well for me. I don't care for the look of files shot at higher ISO. I read something about this (probably here) where someone had done a bunch of experimentation with this and determined that exposing at 640 and pushing in lightroom produced better looking files than using higher ISO and I've gone with that and it seems to work.

I got the M9 (used) when I started shooting color more than black and white. While I like grain in black and white film, I don't like noise in color digital. It may be fine for web resoltuion but I always think I want to possibility of printing big at some point in the future.

I suspect that 640 is about where pre-ADC brightening stops and digital amplification starts....

My embryonic usage suggests that 640 and LR works well. But It's early days, and not the sort of stuff I want to be doing with a camera I've wanted for a very long time and only just got 😀

 

[adamjbonn]

Concerning the strap lugs.

Buy an original Leica strap - the kind they used to sell with late model film M cameras (and may still do). The strap is made of ultra strong woven nylon (or some other synthetic), has a non slip shoulder pad in the middle and has its own metal doo-dads on the ends that unlock and are placed into the strap lugs on the camera. These strap ends have no sharp edges (unlike split rings) so will not mar the camera lugs and they will never come undone accidentally. Mind you you will need your engineering skills to work out how to use the strap - its like none other I have ever seen. 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzuwkR4jvK4

I have that strap, it came in the box with the camera.

The lug fitting is genius - Leica must have a patent on that or else everyone would be doing it

I dislike nylon straps and their tendency to twist

Usually with split rings I use some electrical heat shrink to cover where the ring opens... doesn't look pretty but works well

 

[adamjbonn]

Inserts are sometimes used if lugs are brass, I think the M9 lugs are stainless steel.

Joe

I suspect you're right, the problem is that spring steel wears out stainless

 

[adamjbonn]

Certainly seems I need to give the 32 card a go...

On the one hand, 16 is enough and works fine

On the other, I've recently turned on SOOC jpeg because the SOOC BW jpegs ain't half bad and for another I tend to do a post import/pre LR image cull using faststone and the embedded image in DNG only is truly woefully tiny 😀

 

[peterm1]

I have that strap, it came in the box with the camera.

The lug fitting is genius - Leica must have a patent on that or else everyone would be doing it

I dislike nylon straps and their tendency to twist

Usually with split rings I use some electrical heat shrink to cover where the ring opens... doesn't look pretty but works well

I don't particularly recall this one twisting - and the grippy shoulder thing is perfect. So you may find it to be OK if used. I presently have a leather strap on my M8 but this is purely an ego trip because it perfectly matches the leather half case on the camera. For functionality I prefer the nylon one.

 

[sepiareverb]

Triangle rings should be fine, I used some Nikon ones on an MP3 that had brass lugs, it worked well there.

 

[Rob-F]

I see nothing to worry about at ISO 1250. Higher is often OK; if there are significant shadows they may reveal noise at ISO much above 1250, but if I want the shot I will still take it.

 

[Richard G]

SD Cards:

Just format, don't overwrite. Not necessary and takes a long time as you've discoverd.

This camera can lock up and no more pictures are possible unless you are carrying another formattted card. Ideally, format the cards in the camera. If formatting out of camera format FAT32. If the camera locks up take out the card and the battery. Wait. Reinsert. You might be back in business.

I had trouble early, as did others, with SanDisk Extreme 8GB. I don't use SanDisk in my CCD Leica digitals. Even with other cards I have had photographs lost, where a few will be taken, and even be reviewable, but then are lost from the card. This has happened with my CCD Monochrom, once.

I now use mostly Lexar Cards but no bigger than 16GB and Panasonic has been good too.

Strap Lugs:

No problem on the CCD Leicas. The next model they tended to fall off in some early copies. (Leica QC)

M9P Screen:

Needs no protection.

ISO

I have been following the program you must have read about, using ISO 640 as maximum and adjusting exposure in Lightroom. High ISO isn't really what it claims to be.

It's a great camera, as is the original Monochrom, and I have no plan to upgrade.