papasnap
Well-known
Hola all!
I shoot both a Zeiss Ikon and Leica M bodies - both are tremendous tools, and a real pleasure to use. Since sending my M7 0.58x off to DAG for a CLA a few weeks ago, I've switched back to the ZI and wanted to share some thoughts on the two, in case it's of use/interest to anyone.
All following photos on Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 Nokton, Fuji Provia 400X + 2 stops (1600). Apologies, some of these are reposts.
Tommy! 1/4 sec exposure + whiskey, hence blur. (Zeiss Ikon)
Lex & Katie (Zeiss Ikon)
Benny, Peat's (M6 TTL 0.58x)
Masked man, asleep with purple dogs, late one rainy night in bangkok thailand (Leica M6 TTL 0.58x)
Jules! (Leica M7 0.58x)
A last night at rita (Leica M7 0.58x)
The dame got pins!
Taken walking back to work, at lunchtime. Thank you, domke satchels (M6 TTL 0.58x)
To give you some background, I shoot (almost exclusively) 35mm lenses in low light, especially the f1.2 nokton, wear glasses, and as a former Hexar AF user I've been using a Zeiss Ikon since feb 2008. In the middle of 2008, I bought a Leica M6 TTL 0.58x, shortly before a 4 month trip to south east asia (after film advance broke on my ZI and I got worried), and switched to the leica as my main camera since that trip (after re-breaking the ZI fairly early on, in an accident that would affect any rangefinder - accidentally smashing the RF illumination window on a metal post). After accidentally leaving the M6 + 35mm Summicron ASPH in a taxi earlier this year 🙂bang🙂, I replaced it with a M7 0.58x (with a late serial number over 2 885 000, with the "mp finder"), which is now my primary camera, and a terrific camera at that.
Ok, so here's my recent thoughts:
1. The Zeiss Ikon has an enormous, and delightfully contrasty viewfinder. Switching from my leicas to the zeiss, the difference in finders isn't subtle, it's huge. While the leicas have a totally functional VF, the size and clarity of the zeiss finder beats the leicas hands down, and is quite luxurious. It's a bit like looking at 120 slides vs 35mm slides; 35mm is more than good enough, but 120 is vastly larger. Replacing the M6 TTL 0.58x with a late model M7 0.58x with the "mp finder" I'd hoped to match the same punchy contrast, but to be honest I don't see all that much difference between the M6/M7 on that front. As an aside, RF "whiteout" on the TTL rarely reared it's head for me, and never caused me to lose a shot. [Edit: I should also note that while size and contrast varies greatly, brightness on both the Zeiss and Leica appears to be the same - ie either is just as good for low light focusing.]
2. The zeiss has a less reliable RF patch in the viewfinder than the leicas. I definitely wouldn't let this put you off the zeiss, by the way, but it's something to be aware of. This is one of my 2 main issues with the zeiss here. As you are likely already aware on this forum, with the ZI viewfinder the RF patch is only visible when your eye is exactly centered over the viewfinder - so in order to focus, you need to be sure to place your eye precisely relative to the finder. I encounter this most often when friends want to take a photo of me with my Ikon, they more often than not are unable to see the RF patch without me walking them through how to center their eyes. With time and familiarity this becomes almost a non-issue, but for me never fully drops away - especially after a few drinks. The leicas, while less impressive in VF size, do not suffer from this issue, with the RF staying consistently visible.
3. The ZI has a very good exposure control system. For me, the M7 has a significantly better one. This has two parts: the meter (and it's pattern), and the interface for controlling it. The zeiss uses a somewhat irregular but effective pattern, weighted slightly to the left of the centre, covering the whole frame but progressively lowering in sensitivity as it nears the edges of the frame. The metering pattern on the Leicas is very simple: it averages a circle in the centre, about 2/3 the height of the frame, like a very large spot meter. Both patterns are very effective, but the Leica wins for me as I know precisely what it's doing and how to compensate accordingly - so when I stuff up the majority of exposures I have no one to blame but myself 🙂. In all seriousness, I find I get a significantly higher number of "right" exposures on the leicas in difficult circumstances than any other metering system I've used: Nikon and Canon DSLRs, Zeiss Ikon, some use of Pentax film SLRs, hand-held meters (a couple of different sekonic meters), Hexar AF, a bunch of compact digitals, etc. The leica has the best metering pattern of any camera I've used - it never surprises you. For someone who doesn't demand full control, Nikon Matrix Metering would be what I'd suggest, but if you want full control I couldn't ask for a more consistently reliable meter than my M7.
For exposure control: on the ZI, the viewfinder gives meter readings in full stops, with a column of meter readings from 1/2000 down to 1 second running along the left hand side of the 35mm frame (each number lights up in red as appropriate). As it's such a large VF, I find I have to swivel my eye away from the center across to the left to read it, and back again to focus. Additionally, in bright sunlight it can dissapear, although for me personally if light is that available I'm generally happy to use whatever the meter recommends. In manual mode, it will show both current vs "recommended" (metered) speeds, with current in solid red and metered in flashing red. To lock exposure, you push a dedicated button on the upper-middle back of the camera, which locks and holds the exposure for (from memory) 15 seconds, unless pushed again to reset (or you switch the camera off then on).
On the M7, in AE mode you get a nice "alarm clock"-style largeish red LED shutter speed readout showing to 1/2 stop precision at the bottom of the frame. In AE mode, to lock the exposure simply half depress the shutter - much quicker and more intuitive in operation than the clumsily placed exposure lock button on the ZI. In manual exposure mode, like the M6 TTL you get 3 LEDs: Right arrow, centre (for "correct"), and Left Arrow, with the arrows indicating which way to turn either the aperture or shutter speed dial to reach the correct exposure - a very effective and intuitive system, although it doesn't show the actual shutter speed. In terms of exposure control, despite some warts the M7 is definitely my favorite system, from all the cameras I've tried.
4. Film loading mechanisms on both are good. The ZI uses a fairly standard film loading mechanism that should hold no surprises for film SLR users. The Leica uses an ususual system, which before I tried it slightly intimidated me - in practice, it's a pussycat, and I actually give the edge to the leica as the easier and more reliable to use (I get more mis-feeds with the zeiss than the leica).
5. The Zeiss Ikon has the more flexible viewfinder magnification/rangefinder base length combination. The Zeiss has a huge finder of 0.72x magnification, by all accounts suitable for use with lenses of any speed up to 85mm (and over); for leica, I use the 0.58x finders as I'm a 35mm or wider lens glasses wearer, but I don't think I'd trust it with a very fast lens (> f2) over 50mm.
6. On using the ZI and the M7 together. I enjoy, and feel huge satisfaction, in using both cameras together. While they have a number of aspects that are diametrically opposed - for example, direction to turn on/off switch, direction to turn shutter dial, etc - I actually think my M7 and ZI complement each other very well. For example, the M7 0.58x is my dream 35mm-legth lens body, but for other lengths (eg my 28mm and 50mm lenses) I'd switch to the Zeiss. For having final personal say over exposure I'd choose the M7; for when I'd rather take suggestions on metering I'd go for the ZI - and use both at same time, to increase chances that my shots that day came out correct. It's sort of like bracketing your metering 🙂
Well, that's all for now, I hope that's of some use. Will add more photos and more information next week.
All the best!
Tom (papasnap)
I shoot both a Zeiss Ikon and Leica M bodies - both are tremendous tools, and a real pleasure to use. Since sending my M7 0.58x off to DAG for a CLA a few weeks ago, I've switched back to the ZI and wanted to share some thoughts on the two, in case it's of use/interest to anyone.
All following photos on Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 Nokton, Fuji Provia 400X + 2 stops (1600). Apologies, some of these are reposts.
Tommy! 1/4 sec exposure + whiskey, hence blur. (Zeiss Ikon)
Lex & Katie (Zeiss Ikon)
Benny, Peat's (M6 TTL 0.58x)
Masked man, asleep with purple dogs, late one rainy night in bangkok thailand (Leica M6 TTL 0.58x)
Jules! (Leica M7 0.58x)
A last night at rita (Leica M7 0.58x)
The dame got pins!
Taken walking back to work, at lunchtime. Thank you, domke satchels (M6 TTL 0.58x)
To give you some background, I shoot (almost exclusively) 35mm lenses in low light, especially the f1.2 nokton, wear glasses, and as a former Hexar AF user I've been using a Zeiss Ikon since feb 2008. In the middle of 2008, I bought a Leica M6 TTL 0.58x, shortly before a 4 month trip to south east asia (after film advance broke on my ZI and I got worried), and switched to the leica as my main camera since that trip (after re-breaking the ZI fairly early on, in an accident that would affect any rangefinder - accidentally smashing the RF illumination window on a metal post). After accidentally leaving the M6 + 35mm Summicron ASPH in a taxi earlier this year 🙂bang🙂, I replaced it with a M7 0.58x (with a late serial number over 2 885 000, with the "mp finder"), which is now my primary camera, and a terrific camera at that.
Ok, so here's my recent thoughts:
1. The Zeiss Ikon has an enormous, and delightfully contrasty viewfinder. Switching from my leicas to the zeiss, the difference in finders isn't subtle, it's huge. While the leicas have a totally functional VF, the size and clarity of the zeiss finder beats the leicas hands down, and is quite luxurious. It's a bit like looking at 120 slides vs 35mm slides; 35mm is more than good enough, but 120 is vastly larger. Replacing the M6 TTL 0.58x with a late model M7 0.58x with the "mp finder" I'd hoped to match the same punchy contrast, but to be honest I don't see all that much difference between the M6/M7 on that front. As an aside, RF "whiteout" on the TTL rarely reared it's head for me, and never caused me to lose a shot. [Edit: I should also note that while size and contrast varies greatly, brightness on both the Zeiss and Leica appears to be the same - ie either is just as good for low light focusing.]
2. The zeiss has a less reliable RF patch in the viewfinder than the leicas. I definitely wouldn't let this put you off the zeiss, by the way, but it's something to be aware of. This is one of my 2 main issues with the zeiss here. As you are likely already aware on this forum, with the ZI viewfinder the RF patch is only visible when your eye is exactly centered over the viewfinder - so in order to focus, you need to be sure to place your eye precisely relative to the finder. I encounter this most often when friends want to take a photo of me with my Ikon, they more often than not are unable to see the RF patch without me walking them through how to center their eyes. With time and familiarity this becomes almost a non-issue, but for me never fully drops away - especially after a few drinks. The leicas, while less impressive in VF size, do not suffer from this issue, with the RF staying consistently visible.
3. The ZI has a very good exposure control system. For me, the M7 has a significantly better one. This has two parts: the meter (and it's pattern), and the interface for controlling it. The zeiss uses a somewhat irregular but effective pattern, weighted slightly to the left of the centre, covering the whole frame but progressively lowering in sensitivity as it nears the edges of the frame. The metering pattern on the Leicas is very simple: it averages a circle in the centre, about 2/3 the height of the frame, like a very large spot meter. Both patterns are very effective, but the Leica wins for me as I know precisely what it's doing and how to compensate accordingly - so when I stuff up the majority of exposures I have no one to blame but myself 🙂. In all seriousness, I find I get a significantly higher number of "right" exposures on the leicas in difficult circumstances than any other metering system I've used: Nikon and Canon DSLRs, Zeiss Ikon, some use of Pentax film SLRs, hand-held meters (a couple of different sekonic meters), Hexar AF, a bunch of compact digitals, etc. The leica has the best metering pattern of any camera I've used - it never surprises you. For someone who doesn't demand full control, Nikon Matrix Metering would be what I'd suggest, but if you want full control I couldn't ask for a more consistently reliable meter than my M7.
For exposure control: on the ZI, the viewfinder gives meter readings in full stops, with a column of meter readings from 1/2000 down to 1 second running along the left hand side of the 35mm frame (each number lights up in red as appropriate). As it's such a large VF, I find I have to swivel my eye away from the center across to the left to read it, and back again to focus. Additionally, in bright sunlight it can dissapear, although for me personally if light is that available I'm generally happy to use whatever the meter recommends. In manual mode, it will show both current vs "recommended" (metered) speeds, with current in solid red and metered in flashing red. To lock exposure, you push a dedicated button on the upper-middle back of the camera, which locks and holds the exposure for (from memory) 15 seconds, unless pushed again to reset (or you switch the camera off then on).
On the M7, in AE mode you get a nice "alarm clock"-style largeish red LED shutter speed readout showing to 1/2 stop precision at the bottom of the frame. In AE mode, to lock the exposure simply half depress the shutter - much quicker and more intuitive in operation than the clumsily placed exposure lock button on the ZI. In manual exposure mode, like the M6 TTL you get 3 LEDs: Right arrow, centre (for "correct"), and Left Arrow, with the arrows indicating which way to turn either the aperture or shutter speed dial to reach the correct exposure - a very effective and intuitive system, although it doesn't show the actual shutter speed. In terms of exposure control, despite some warts the M7 is definitely my favorite system, from all the cameras I've tried.
4. Film loading mechanisms on both are good. The ZI uses a fairly standard film loading mechanism that should hold no surprises for film SLR users. The Leica uses an ususual system, which before I tried it slightly intimidated me - in practice, it's a pussycat, and I actually give the edge to the leica as the easier and more reliable to use (I get more mis-feeds with the zeiss than the leica).
5. The Zeiss Ikon has the more flexible viewfinder magnification/rangefinder base length combination. The Zeiss has a huge finder of 0.72x magnification, by all accounts suitable for use with lenses of any speed up to 85mm (and over); for leica, I use the 0.58x finders as I'm a 35mm or wider lens glasses wearer, but I don't think I'd trust it with a very fast lens (> f2) over 50mm.
6. On using the ZI and the M7 together. I enjoy, and feel huge satisfaction, in using both cameras together. While they have a number of aspects that are diametrically opposed - for example, direction to turn on/off switch, direction to turn shutter dial, etc - I actually think my M7 and ZI complement each other very well. For example, the M7 0.58x is my dream 35mm-legth lens body, but for other lengths (eg my 28mm and 50mm lenses) I'd switch to the Zeiss. For having final personal say over exposure I'd choose the M7; for when I'd rather take suggestions on metering I'd go for the ZI - and use both at same time, to increase chances that my shots that day came out correct. It's sort of like bracketing your metering 🙂
Well, that's all for now, I hope that's of some use. Will add more photos and more information next week.
All the best!
Tom (papasnap)
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