Sort of OT: A Question of Pleasure

[dcsang]

I was walking back from my local lab today after dropping off a roll of color film (Kodak 400 NC) for processing/printing and I got to thinking about something. Maybe it was brought on by reading through George's post on the photojournalist image from the tsunamis.

As an amateur photographer I get the opportunity to shoot a few weddings during the year as well as various family/friend portraits and events. I had, until recently, used my dSLR for almost all of these gigs this year. I used the M6/50mm cron combo on my friend who's recently had a baby - I posted about it a few days ago.

Now, what I wonder is, when you get that shot that you particularly like, does this please you more than if you got the shot that your friends or family or peers may like? What I mean is this; we get accolades from our peers and our friends/family/co-workers etc. and while I know that everyone's "eye" is different for "art" does this give you more of a feeling of "accomplishment" (for the lack of a better word) than if you got the shot that you got and initially thought was "the best"?

For example, going back again to some previous shoots I've had, I always mull over the images and think "meh.. they're 'ok' .. but nothing stellar" but once I show them to either the customer or some peers for commentary I hear "Whoa!! that's an AWESOME photo !!" and then I wonder if it's mere lip service. But when I get a shot that I myself am proud of, I tend to get a more "lukewarm" reception. Maybe it's my own neuroses that's causing this but I wondered what or how others felt about what they see as being "the money shot" vs what their peers or others may see as being "the money shot".

I'm curious (and obviously, a bit convoluted after re-reading this post) about what you folks think 🙂

Cheers
Dave

 

[bmattock]

Yes, absolutely true for me as well.

The shots they like the best are the ones I'm not particularly proud of - or I really think that I could have done better. I can see glaring flaws that they don't notice. But the ones I love, just love, I get the 'eh, it's ok, I guess' reaction.

It helps now that I shoot my DSLR for money-making and B&W film for 'me'. That way I don't feel so bad or waste so much time on things that merely make money as opposed to nourishing my beast.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Kin Lau]

Now, what I wonder is, when you get that shot that you particularly like, does this please you more than if you got the shot that your friends or family or peers may like? What I mean is this; we get accolades from our peers and our friends/family/co-workers etc. and while I know that everyone's "eye" is different for "art" does this give you more of a feeling of "accomplishment" (for the lack of a better word) than if you got the shot that you got and initially thought was "the best"?

I find that shots that I care for the most, are shots that took some effort to make, and unfortunately, means zip to anyone looking at the picture. The "experience" of the shot doesn't carry over.

Whereas often, the "good looking" shot was nothing more than a snapshot.

I often notice that I get completely different reactions from photog/artsy types vs the "why isn't everything in focus" types.

 

[oftheherd]

Interesting. I have had shots that I thought were good and others agreed. But I think the majority are in the category you mention. I can think of two good examples. I have a shot where I have a structure reflected in water. When in a series of photos, most go right past it. It is a shot I really like.

I have two shots of close ups of dadelions with bees. They are oof, if colorful. I always get good comments on those two. That is the only reason I leave them in a folder together, to watch the reactions and marvel.

Go figure. And I guess that is your point. How do you figure that?

 

[JoeFriday]

I noticed that same situation years ago when I first became a professional graphic designer.. the things that I thought were my best work usually got a response like "that's very nice".. but the stuff I'd do for friends always got a "wow, that's perfect!" reaction.. that's because the person that you're taking photos for has some ownership in the results.. thus a stronger reaction

there's also the fact that I have more of a 'trained eye' than the non-designer.. most design work is average or 'good' to me.. but other people see it in a less analytical way.. and the things that I get really excited about aren't even obvious to the unwashed masses.. composition, color or font usage.. things that other people might notice but can't appreciate how they're applied

you'll just have to accept that you see things differently than the usual snapshot crowd.. don't worry that other people have reactions other than yours.. be happy with the shots you think are winners.. and still be happy that other people enjoy the ones you think are flawed.. and don't point out the flaws 😀

 

[ch1]

There is an interesting (if second) experiment in the making on this topic. It's the RFF Book II project.

We will soon have the self-selected shots of about 100 of us. Presuming we each chose shots we liked it will be interesting to see how we react to the shots that others of us chose to submit.

Of course, the same thing m/l goes on every day with the Gallery (and there you can add comments on another's self-selections) - but the Book is kind of a special "closed ended" experiment.

BTW: now that I have some "guidelines" on how to size Gallery submissions I've got to get some uploading started!

 

[Nikon Bob]

I shoot to please myself, the rest of the I like it or don't like it part is just icing on the cake if it is the I like it answer. As for lip service from friends/peers/co workers, you should ask them if they want to buy an 8X10 print you just showed them that they liked, for $10.00. I have done that at work when someone told me I should sideline photography. They back away pretty quickly from the offer, much to my amusement. Accolades are always nice and are appreciated but are just a small part of why I take photos.

Bob

 

[Biggles]

Now, what I wonder is, when you get that shot that you particularly like, does this please you more than if you got the shot that your friends or family or peers may like?

Hell, yes. I don't hang other people's favorites on my walls.

 

[dcsang]

Thanks guys..
I'm glad I'm not alone when I noted this earlier today. 🙂

Brett, you're absolutely right - and I do take great joy in what I think is a "winner" (the shot of my best friend with her newborn for example) and I am happy that others enjoy stuff that I shot but find mediocre. 🙂

Kin, I think you may have hit home what I was trying to express, you're correct, the experience of creating the shot doesn't carry over into the finished product per se. I jump out of my skin when I realize a good photograph, handheld at 1/8, can be made by myself; mostly because I can recall how steady I had to remain and wait for just the right moment. All of that is hard to gather out of a single photo.

And Bill, I'm the same. DSLR is for making coin. The RFs and B&W film is for ME.. me me me me me 😀 I'm a bit selfish that way I guess 😀

Oftheherd, yes, that was my point.. go figure 😀

George, yep... this book should make for some interesting viewing and discussing once it's complete 🙂 I'm hoping for a bestseller.. 😉

Cheers
Dave

 

[eIII]

yep, dave- my experience as well.

my problem is my complete inability to judge my own work. nothing of mine seems to jump out at me. i browse others galleries and i have an immediate like/ dislike reaction. but my stuff? no way.

i need the eyes of another to help me see what works and what pops.

billy

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I shot pictures for the wedding of friends of mine this past Summer. I wasn't the "main" photographer, which was great, because I like taking unposed pictures.

When we were going through the selection process, they tended to pick pictures based more on content than on "quality". They did pick pictures that had artsy-fartsy approach on some of them, but passed on a few that I thought were wonderful because they "already had those" (you should see the other photographer's pictures ---yowza! I'm not the only one who was shocked at how, emmm, uninspiring, they were) And he is a professional photojournalist.

But it is very biased. What we think is great can get a "yeah, that's...nice" response. And what we think is our worst or at best, mediocre, can get a "oooooh, wow! how did you do that?!?"

In my experience, the best you can do is never influence your viewers' opinions by expressing your own about your own work (well, when you're personally showing them your work, anyway). Listen to what they have to say. This way you can find out which shots you're making for yourself, and which you're making for a "targeted audience".

 

[DougK]

My experiences have been similar. One of my friends who is also into photography often picks the same shots I do. The rest seem to go off of what they like. Interestingly, they often see things with color and form that I didn't in photos that on further reflection do work out nicely.

I decided to take a chance on the photos I submitted for the book and I went with a couple several of my friends picked out independently of each other; it saved me weeks of agony. 😀

 

[RML]

I decided to take a chance on the photos I submitted for the book and I went with a couple several of my friends picked out independently of each other; it saved me weeks of agony. 😀

For book 1 I went with one photo that was liked by other members but which I myself didn't care much for. For book 2 I made a selection of 10 photos and let other members cast their votes. Guess what, not one of my favourites were in the top 5. 🙂 I took the results of the vote at heart and sent off the top2 to be included in the book.

Why are my preferences so different from those of others? I don't know. I like shooting with rf cameras, I sometimes do engage in street photography but mostly I shoot whatever tickles my fancy. That fancy is often not street photography with people in the shot. I guess that makes the difference. My other photos are perhaps more associated with SLR photography than RF photography, whatever that means. 🙂

 

[Peter Klein]

Sometimes we like a photo because of some technical or compositional element, or because it was a real challenge to pull off. The viewer doesn't know or care about technique, and he or she knows only the destination, not the journey.

How many times have you had the opposite opinion of some learned theatre/music/art critic?

And then there's people's tastes. F'rinstance, I love available light photography. I practice it myself, and I enjoy similar work of others. Some people respond to such pictures with words like "grainy," or "not sharp." It's a bit of an ego-deflating experience to get such reactions when you took the person by the light of one candle, at 1/8 second hand-held. . . 🙂

As for the mediocre shots being overly appreciated, well, everybody likes to see pictures of their happy Aunt Myrtle and Uncle Henry. Not to mention Madonna and newborn Babycakes.

--Peter

 

[GeneW]

It's a mystery sometimes, Dave. I periodically mail out a link to new photos in my pbase gallery to a group of friends and relatives, and when I receive comments that they've really liked a particular photo or two, it's rarely the same photo. And some respond more to B&W and some more to col. It confirms for me that everyone sees photos differently.

Gene

 

[varjag]

I risk to sound snobbish, but bear with me a minute.

Ting is, general public has no understanding of visual language.

Your friends, family and clients can be great chaps and talented people, but understanding of a photography (or any other visual art for that matter) takes an effort to develop and time to mature. Neraly every practicing photograper tends to arrive at understanging of visual clues, composition and metaphor, but it would be too optimistic to expect any kind of useful criticism from people untrained at that.

 

[FrankS]

If we are talking strickly photography, the only person I consider pleasing is myself. 🙂 Of course, if we're talking paid work, I worry about pleasing the client. Much earlier in my journey, I considered pleasing photo-judges in camera clubs, but soon realized how shallow that was. Personal photography is just that, personal.

 

[peterc]

when I get a shot that I myself am proud of, I tend to get a more "lukewarm" reception.

Ditto for me Dave. One of my most popular shots with others who see it is a shot of a driver who just wrecked his car by arguing with a Toronto streetcar. It was taken with an autofocus, autoexposure SLR from chest level as the guy approached me saying he didn't want his picture taken. I did nothing other than push a button.
Other shots that I spent time waiting for the right light and slogged through a swamp (or something equally ugly) to get the right angle often get a "why did you bother" response.

Oh well,
Peter

 

[JoeFriday]

another aspect that a few comments have touched on, but haven't really addressed directly, is the connection we as the photographer feel about the 'experience of taking a particular photo'.. a good example is the image I attached.. a photo I attempted to take of a trout I was in the process of landing while fly fishing.. obviously it isn't a very interesting photo to you because there's no trout in it (the trout is just below the ripple on the lower right.. slightly out of the frame).. but I love that shot because of the emotions and memories it invokes of that fish, as well as the difficulty of trying to land a fish and use a camera at the same time

about the only way to avoid that emotional connection is to do what Winogrand did.. shot tons of film and wait a full year before developing it.. but who wants to do that? I prefer to have that emotional connection to the image.. if I don't, who will?

 

[bmattock]

Ditto for me Dave. One of my most popular shots with others who see it is a shot of a driver who just wrecked his car by arguing with a Toronto streetcar. It was taken with an autofocus, autoexposure SLR from chest level as the guy approached me saying he didn't want his picture taken. I did nothing other than push a button.
Other shots that I spent time waiting for the right light and slogged through a swamp (or something equally ugly) to get the right angle often get a "why did you bother" response.

Oh well,
Peter

Yeah, but sometimes I get that response from myself. I hike, climb, swing from a tree to get the angle that I think will work - and it looks like total dross when I get it processed and scanned. Or worse - just average - like I could have taken it from the window of a car.

Sometimes I go back through my older shots - and see things I didn't see before. They're better than I thought - sometimes.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks