Krnome
Established
Hi!
What sort of markings are these on a Summilux 35?
Can it affect the pictures?
What sort of markings are these on a Summilux 35?
Can it affect the pictures?
Spots on Summilux 35
- Thread starter Krnome
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Erik van Straten
Veteran
These are places where two glued glass parts pop apart. Disastrous. This creates black spots in the bokeh. These kinds of problems arise from keeping the lenses too warm. Sometimes, however, it is completely unclear how they arise. "Tension in the sealant layer". A terrible shame about the beautiful lens, if I'm not mistaken it is a steel rim.
Erik.
Erik.
Krnome
Established
Thanks Erik!
Not a lens you should go ahead and bid on I guess.
No its a infinity lock Lux 35.
teddy
Jose Morales
It's lens separation. What a shame. Can Leica fix it? If it's a Summilux - I would.
jordan.dickinson
Jordan Dickinson
I had one of these very 35mm Summilux lens fixed by Kanto just last year (2020). Mine had been dropped or bumped at some point before I purchased it (got it for just a few hundred dollars) and there was some rainbow separation in the rear element. The lens body didn't appear to have any damage really, but the rear element needed some attention. This didn't cause any noticeable affect on images, but I just wanted to get it looked at. Kanto was able to separate the elements and recement them. I also asked them to check what sounded like rattling aperture blades, but never really checked to see if they fixed it. Either way, the lens is absolutely gorgeous now. It honestly looks and feels close to new.
This repair cost about $450 USD including shipping, and it took a few months to get it there and back. However, this was amid the heaviest surges in COVID, so it may be a bit less turnaround time now.
From Kanto's email:
"For Summilux 35/1.4 Pre-ASPH, we can fix separation of the cemented elements in the rear lens group.
A rough cost will be as follows for your reference.
As for the rattling inside the lens, there is normally some rattling when the aperture blades are fully open (f1.4).
If there is no rattle (or much less rattle) when the aperture blades are closed, we guess it is normal.
We will check it when we receive your lens.
Overhaul Labor Cost : 35,000 JPY
Fixing Separation : 10,000 JPY
--------------------------------
Total : 45,000 JPY (tax is not included)
We will inform you the actual quotation when we receive your item.
Please note that there is a possibility we won't be able to provide service if the item has been badly damaged than we expected.
Turnaround time : About 4 months presently.
As number of the repair requests is increasing, there will be a possibility of delay.
Return Shipping Fee (EMS) : about 2,900 JPY to USA
Payment Method: We accept PayPal."
Hope this helps. Your beautiful Summilux can likely be resurrected!
This repair cost about $450 USD including shipping, and it took a few months to get it there and back. However, this was amid the heaviest surges in COVID, so it may be a bit less turnaround time now.
From Kanto's email:
"For Summilux 35/1.4 Pre-ASPH, we can fix separation of the cemented elements in the rear lens group.
A rough cost will be as follows for your reference.
As for the rattling inside the lens, there is normally some rattling when the aperture blades are fully open (f1.4).
If there is no rattle (or much less rattle) when the aperture blades are closed, we guess it is normal.
We will check it when we receive your lens.
Overhaul Labor Cost : 35,000 JPY
Fixing Separation : 10,000 JPY
--------------------------------
Total : 45,000 JPY (tax is not included)
We will inform you the actual quotation when we receive your item.
Please note that there is a possibility we won't be able to provide service if the item has been badly damaged than we expected.
Turnaround time : About 4 months presently.
As number of the repair requests is increasing, there will be a possibility of delay.
Return Shipping Fee (EMS) : about 2,900 JPY to USA
Payment Method: We accept PayPal."
Hope this helps. Your beautiful Summilux can likely be resurrected!
Krnome
Established
james.liam
Well-known
You also might want to contact Don Goldberg (DAG). He’s got all sorts of rare bits and pieces and may have a replacement rear element
I had a rare Fuji Cristar 50/2 collapsible in Leica thread mount that had one of these flowers. The report from DAG:
“Robert,
looks like there was a spec of dust on the lens element, the 2 elements were cemented together at the factory with barely enough lens cement, however due to the spec of dust the elements started to separate around the spec of dust causing that flower-like image to appear.”
The flower has zero effect on photos and is still in use, works perfectly, with said dust spec present since the late 40s.
“Robert,
looks like there was a spec of dust on the lens element, the 2 elements were cemented together at the factory with barely enough lens cement, however due to the spec of dust the elements started to separate around the spec of dust causing that flower-like image to appear.”
The flower has zero effect on photos and is still in use, works perfectly, with said dust spec present since the late 40s.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Depends on the place of it. If the lens is a bo-keh champion they appear in the"bo-keh balls" as black spots or, when they are on the edge, is it as if bites have been taken from these balls. I had them in the rear of a Summilux 50mm v2.
Erik.
mothertrucker
Well-known
Don has the ability to recement lenses now. I'm not sure if he's recently started, or if he's been doing it for a while, but he recemented a 35mm Summaron F2.8 for me just a couple of months ago.
I’d be extremely surprised if this would have any visible effect on photos, especially in a 35 lux.
The only effect is on the market price of the lens. 🙂
This must be fairly recent as he referred me to Focal Point if I wanted to recement, although that shop is no longer extant.
mothertrucker
Well-known
He had to get a new UV curing light for mine - seems like he is just getting rolling on it.
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
I have a Nikkor 50f/1.4 (AF) that suffers from delamination. It is mostly on the edge of the element and I haven't seen any effect whatsoever. My enlarger Nikkor is terrible, more than half of it is delaminated, still very sharp. I remember reading somewhere from a Zeiss factory trained staff that they would seriously consider buying a delaminated lens if the price was right as he didn't think it effects the lens that much. Of course the summilux is an expensive lens, so not sure what to suggest
Highway 61
Revisited
The brand and type of lens affected by the phenomenon wouldn't change things. Like Erik said with good reason, it creates what is called "the optical black out". So, located in the center of the lens, as it's the case on this Summilux-M, those "flowers" can really affect the photos in a visible way.
Seeing those decementing "flowers" in the center of cemented elements is quite rare by the way. Generally, they rather tend to be at the periphery of cemented pairs. Below, in the rear group of a Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar which I have :
You can clearly see that those "balsam flowers" are totally opaque areas. This flaw is something quite different from, say, scratches, bubbles or dust specs.
The brand and type are of course irrelevant to the discussion, just stating my experience of exactly the same phenomenon, which, under extensive testing scrutiny, produced no visible effect. The flower is not really opaque, after all it's just an air gap between the glass.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
In that case you are lucky, but the effect of these flowers is not always nice: they can cause black spots in the bokeh. Most people do not look into the unsharp parts of the image, but I do. The unsharp parts of the image can be beautiful, but those "flowers" can ruin this beauty. Bright lights in the unsharp background can be deformed by them and, in any case, the value of the lens will go down steeply. Just a warning not to leave your lens in a car parked in a sunny place. The cause is the different shrinkage and expansion coefficient of the two cemented glasses when they heat up.
Erik.
Erik.
Krnome
Established
Great respond!
The bokeh is part of the picture and I do too look at the unsharp background as I´m a cinematographer. I did not buy the lens after all. I would not take the chance on it.
In my case I was testing the Cristar against its rendering competitor, the Summitar. After close inspection of many images I could not detect any effect, anywhere, OOF areas included. The tests were done at wide apertures, as that's where lens differences reveal themselves. FWIW, I kept the Summitar, as the rendering was indistinguishable and the Cristar commanded a much higher price due to rarity.
farlymac
PF McFarland
I've gotten what I like to call "Shock Angels" in a lens on a Yashica Electro 35 GL caused by a drop (notice the dent in the filter ring). Isn't much I can do about it other than replacing the lens.
In general it doesn't affect the image unless pointing towards the light (whatever gets past a hood), then it scatters very badly.
1) How to go from this... by P F McFarland, on Flickr
But I've got other lenses with edge separation (in particular a Nikkor-H∙C 50/2), and have not seen any image degradation. Now something in the middle of the light path like what the OP has shown could cause some issues, but I haven't an example to show.
PF
In general it doesn't affect the image unless pointing towards the light (whatever gets past a hood), then it scatters very badly.
1) How to go from this... by P F McFarland, on Flickr
But I've got other lenses with edge separation (in particular a Nikkor-H∙C 50/2), and have not seen any image degradation. Now something in the middle of the light path like what the OP has shown could cause some issues, but I haven't an example to show.
PF
